Brushless Speedos less efficient with age?
08-28-2011, 10:56 PM
#1
Brushless Speedos less efficient with age?
This question is directed toward the TC 17.5 "Spec"/Blinky class. Wondering if the current crop of race (LRP SS, RS/RS PRO, Speedpassion, GTB/Kinetic...) speedos lose their efficiency or punch with age? I know of FET's blowing on the boards, but in general how often are you all replacing the speedos. Some racers I've talked to have gone from having a somewhat competitive car, to an A-main worthy car by just switching ESC's in for a new one at BIG races. I understand that the spec class races don't stress the battery/motor as much as a hot Mod set-up. Any input is appreciatted
08-28-2011, 11:05 PM
#2
This question is directed toward the TC 17.5 "Spec"/Blinky class. Wondering if the current crop of race (LRP SS, RS/RS PRO, Speedpassion, GTB/Kinetic...) speedos lose their efficiency or punch with age? I know of FET's blowing on the boards, but in general how often are you all replacing the speedos. Some racers I've talked to have gone from having a somewhat competitive car, to an A-main worthy car by just switching ESC's in for a new one at BIG races. I understand that the spec class races don't stress the battery/motor as much as a hot Mod set-up. Any input is appreciatted
08-28-2011, 11:51 PM
#3
Why would an ESC lose efficiency with age/use?
Motor yes... magnets weaken, bearings wear out so they'll need
more energy to provide certain power output than when new.
Excess energy becomes heat so they run hotter too.
ESCs have mechanical fans that fail (leading to overheat damage),
thermal compound between FETs and heatsink that might dry up,
PCB failure due to mechanical damage from impact or vibration
and occasionally due to crud buildup that's conductive.
But doped-silicon transistors don't age like "half life", even a 1970s
transistor radio will work fine today like it did when brandnew.
Main killers of old electronics is water damage or leaky batteries.
Motor yes... magnets weaken, bearings wear out so they'll need
more energy to provide certain power output than when new.
Excess energy becomes heat so they run hotter too.
ESCs have mechanical fans that fail (leading to overheat damage),
thermal compound between FETs and heatsink that might dry up,
PCB failure due to mechanical damage from impact or vibration
and occasionally due to crud buildup that's conductive.
But doped-silicon transistors don't age like "half life", even a 1970s
transistor radio will work fine today like it did when brandnew.
Main killers of old electronics is water damage or leaky batteries.
08-29-2011, 12:53 AM
#4
Why would an ESC lose efficiency with age/use?
Motor yes... magnets weaken, bearings wear out so they'll need
more energy to provide certain power output than when new.
Excess energy becomes heat so they run hotter too.
ESCs have mechanical fans that fail (leading to overheat damage),
thermal compound between FETs and heatsink that might dry up,
PCB failure due to mechanical damage from impact or vibration
and occasionally due to crud buildup that's conductive.
But doped-silicon transistors don't age like "half life", even a 1970s
transistor radio will work fine today like it did when brandnew.
Main killers of old electronics is water damage or leaky batteries.
Motor yes... magnets weaken, bearings wear out so they'll need
more energy to provide certain power output than when new.
Excess energy becomes heat so they run hotter too.
ESCs have mechanical fans that fail (leading to overheat damage),
thermal compound between FETs and heatsink that might dry up,
PCB failure due to mechanical damage from impact or vibration
and occasionally due to crud buildup that's conductive.
But doped-silicon transistors don't age like "half life", even a 1970s
transistor radio will work fine today like it did when brandnew.
Main killers of old electronics is water damage or leaky batteries.
08-29-2011, 09:03 AM
#7
Do slightly lower resistance FET's allow more power to be utilized, sure, they have to. So in a new ESC, if newer FET's that have lower on resistance are what the unit was built with, it will be electronically faster. But by how much, well, its really hard to say. I have several Tekin RS and RS pro's that I have used since purchased, when they first came out several years ago, that I still can cut as fast a lap with any of these against those who have purchased new ones, of any brand. This tells me, with empirical evidence from the track, in my personal experience, that they do not get slower. But, driving and set-up still play a part, so there is still a chance there is some difference. 
Some serious electronic testing would need to be done to verify actual changes from new to old on the same ESC. You would have to test it when you first used it, then test it again, after a certain number of cycles, to see if you could verify a difference.
In blinky mode, there does seem to be building evidence, that for fully unknown reasons, yet, there is appreciable differences with certain motor combinations and ESC's. Which is too bad, as it partially defeats the idea of what blink mode is intended for. But if you have many variables available, this will happen, whether accidentally or through testing.
Some serious electronic testing would need to be done to verify actual changes from new to old on the same ESC. You would have to test it when you first used it, then test it again, after a certain number of cycles, to see if you could verify a difference.
In blinky mode, there does seem to be building evidence, that for fully unknown reasons, yet, there is appreciable differences with certain motor combinations and ESC's. Which is too bad, as it partially defeats the idea of what blink mode is intended for. But if you have many variables available, this will happen, whether accidentally or through testing.
08-29-2011, 06:44 PM
#8
"In blinky mode, there does seem to be building evidence, that for fully unknown reasons, yet, there is appreciable differences with certain motor combinations and ESC's."
Hey Alex, your response is spot on with what I've experienced.
Some of our fast guys have mentioned BIG names at MAJOR races being mid pack, then switching to a new ESC and gaining the time they were behind with the switch.
I should just have you load one of your blinky profiles on my RS Pro the next time I see you since your cars have been ballistic lately
Thanks for the responses guys!
Hey Alex, your response is spot on with what I've experienced.
Some of our fast guys have mentioned BIG names at MAJOR races being mid pack, then switching to a new ESC and gaining the time they were behind with the switch.
I should just have you load one of your blinky profiles on my RS Pro the next time I see you since your cars have been ballistic lately
Thanks for the responses guys!
08-29-2011, 07:29 PM
#9
Tech Adept
From what I have seen all the blinky mode esc's are not the same. Are we surprised? Shouldn't be. any time you have racing where HP is critical, any little difference is magnified. Same as back in the day when you had to sort through motors to get a good one. ESC's now control the motor, so now we sort through esc's to find the good ones. Spec racing is never cheap. It just means you have to buy more stuff to find the good ones.
08-29-2011, 08:53 PM
#10
08-29-2011, 10:42 PM
#11
It's amazing how many people spend big $$ on the latest esc, motor etc the fastest of faast, new tyres every round, latest batteries but can't drive consistantly and whine the marshalls are too slow etc.
I learnt if you drive consistently, the marshalls are a non issue cos you don't need them, and even an old MC330R speedy and 27t Monster Stock can win against these big $$ cars.
Unless you drive week in week out with zero errors, and are consistant to within 0.1 second of a lap each lap, then the difference in 1 ESC vs another just isn't worth the hassle or the outlay of cash!
I learnt if you drive consistently, the marshalls are a non issue cos you don't need them, and even an old MC330R speedy and 27t Monster Stock can win against these big $$ cars.
Unless you drive week in week out with zero errors, and are consistant to within 0.1 second of a lap each lap, then the difference in 1 ESC vs another just isn't worth the hassle or the outlay of cash!
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