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Old 11-21-2011, 11:05 AM   #811
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Very good Robert ! I was beginning to think I was the only one seeing the potential of the FGX ....
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Old 11-21-2011, 11:41 AM   #812
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Old 11-21-2011, 03:37 PM   #813
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That's what I'm getting ready to do, How about a pic?
Parts need to be cut and drilled to work but not that difficult. All parts are Dubro except the Lunsford 1.5" turnbuckle. really should be a little longer but the next size up is 1.75" and would be too long.

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Old 11-21-2011, 03:43 PM   #814
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@racer robert

How did you get 2 deg front camber? Isn't the stock plate 0 deg?
Stock front is -2*. The option plates are the -3 and -1.
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Old 11-21-2011, 03:53 PM   #815
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Front droop can be adjusted by shimming between the lower suspension arm and the middle E clip of the kingpin... It's hard to see, but it works flawlessly..
That's ride height and spring preload. You could just as easily add a shim between the spring and retaining cup to increase the preload without affecting ride height. Droop would be the amount the front suspension drops when the front end is picked up. Since the lower arms are static, there is no droop. Until the front suspension gets an upgrade to fully independent with a damper or torsion bar system, there are only springs, ride height, caster, camber and kingpin damping that can be tweaked. In the pan car world only the center shock had droop. Many cars had kinpins threaded on one end and can adjust preload to take out the "tweak" in the front end.
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:00 PM   #816
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Actually John...you can adjust droop that way...that is how we adjust droop on pan cars. If you setup the shims so that there is a little bit of play in the spring then you will also have droop. When you lift the front end the upper arm and axle will droop even though the lower arm is static. The big difference being in a pan car we can shim the front suspension to account for the resulting change in ride height...but I don't know if you can do that on the FGX...it doesn't look like it can.
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:04 PM   #817
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Originally Posted by liljohn1064 View Post
Droop would be the amount the front suspension drops when the front end is picked up.
That's correct, but the important word here is "suspension".

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Since the lower arms are static, there is no droop.
The lower arms are static and NOT part of the car's suspension. On my F104 the front end has about .5mm of droop. Now, I will say that this is only because that's how much the springs compress when you put the car down and compress the suspension a few times to settle it. It is minor but still technically droop. If you go with a real firm spring you may eleminate that slight amount of droop.

A fully independant front suspension isn't the answer. I'll show you my HPI Super F1 (Fully independant front suspension where both upper and lower arms move) and it has no more or less droop than my F104.

The reason a pan car has very little to no droop is because it has very little front suspension travel. I mean, the springs are what, 4-5mm tall or so? .5mm is about 10% of the suspension's full potential travel.
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:12 PM   #818
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Actually John...you can adjust droop that way...that is how we adjust droop on pan cars. If you setup the shims so that there is a little bit of play in the spring then you will also have droop. When you lift the front end the upper arm and axle will droop even though the lower arm is static. The big difference being in a pan car we can shim the front suspension to account for the resulting change in ride height...but I don't know if you can do that on the FGX...it doesn't look like it can.
Thanks Gadget, I always called that preload. Too much and the spring compressed far enough the kingpins didn't move when the front end came up, too little and you get interesting results in the corners. I think 3mm one end threaded kingpins would be a very good upgrade, something like the IRS kingpins in my pan F1.
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:18 PM   #819
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That's correct, but the important word here is "suspension".



The lower arms are static and NOT part of the car's suspension. On my F104 the front end has about .5mm of droop. Now, I will say that this is only because that's how much the springs compress when you put the car down and compress the suspension a few times to settle it. It is minor but still technically droop. If you go with a real firm spring you may eleminate that slight amount of droop.

A fully independant front suspension isn't the answer. I'll show you my HPI Super F1 (Fully independant front suspension where both upper and lower arms move) and it has no more or less droop than my F104.

The reason a pan car has very little to no droop is because it has very little front suspension travel. I mean, the springs are what, 4-5mm tall or so? .5mm is about 10% of the suspension's full potential travel.
To scale that travel is probably about right. When they do a pit stop in F1, those tires come right off the ground when the car is lifted front and rear (unlike my 99 Chevy Venture).
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:19 PM   #820
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Well if you are putting compression on the spring then it is pre-load...once you are no longer compressing the spring it isn't being loaded and becomes droop at that point. Back when I first started pan cars we used to add just enough shims to make sure there wasn't any play in the spring...everyone thought that it was a bad thing having play in the spring at the time and didn't understand droop. These days I find I like the way most pan cars run with just a tad more front droop than rear.
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:22 PM   #821
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I've heard of people replacing the front end with a 104... has anyone here tried this ? If so how do you do it ? photo's are helpful... Please and thank you
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Old 11-21-2011, 07:44 PM   #822
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I've heard of people replacing the front end with a 104... has anyone here tried this ? If so how do you do it ? photo's are helpful... Please and thank you


http://www.rctech.net/forum/9895914-post662.html
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Old 11-21-2011, 07:55 PM   #823
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Robert's solution to the Fgx's front end is like the Awesomatix arms , and keeps the possibility of reactive camber, which is hard to get on F104 arms ..... Hopefully 3racing will take note and come up with similar arms, but until then I'll beef up my front bumper and take my chances with the regular arms ....
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:51 PM   #824
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Robert's solution to the Fgx's front end is like the Awesomatix arms , and keeps the possibility of reactive camber, which is hard to get on F104 arms.
Please explain.

My pan F1 has a link front end. I have it set up for caster gain under load. There is a little bit of camber gain due to the length of the arms. I've just sent for the parts in the link above to get the connection points back under the body and make the car more realistic. My next goal is to get a Tamiya axle in it. The FGX body and an F104 wing set will fit it perfectly. I ordered a couple extra sets of link ends for the FGX to replicate Cal's front end and have some spares. I should be able to get some caster gain by shimming the rear ball ends on the trailing arms. It should also give adjustable caster and camber without replacing the camber plate which the stock front end does not do. As far as any camber gain, not sure as the arms start out parallel.
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:56 PM   #825
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Please explain.

My pan F1 has a link front end. I have it set up for caster gain under load. There is a little bit of camber gain due to the length of the arms. I've just sent for the parts in the link above to get the connection points back under the body and make the car more realistic. My next goal is to get a Tamiya axle in it. The FGX body and an F104 wing set will fit it perfectly. I ordered a couple extra sets of link ends for the FGX to replicate Cal's front end and have some spares. I should be able to get some caster gain by shimming the rear ball ends on the trailing arms. It should also give adjustable caster and camber without replacing the camber plate which the stock front end does not do. As far as any camber gain, not sure as the arms start out parallel.
By virtue of the lower arm being fixed and the upper arm not moving in the same angle as the king pin you will always have some camber and caster gain as the suspension compresses. You can get more caster gain (reactive caster) simply by adding spacers under the rear upper arm pivot ball to raise where that link connects. This makes the upper arm sweep forward more as the suspension compresses. The dual link front end used for reactive caster was first in production on the Trinity EV10 which is very similar to what we see people doing on the F104 and this FGX link suspension. AE later came out with the dynamic strut front end which was their version of what Trinity did with links...only using an upper arm instead.
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