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Old 05-12-2011, 08:24 PM   #31
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Hope the pricing is similar to the old F109 starting price... awsome car.. what was good with the old cars though.. u could mix and match 103 104 and 109.. but I hope with the new suspension setup this will no longer need to be done.. if they are hexs on the wheel then getting decent scale foam and rubber may be an issue..
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Old 05-12-2011, 08:55 PM   #32
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As fantastic as it looks, I see no use for this car. It won't be legal for any F1 races due to its suspension set up and basically its just making something complicated out of something that could be cheap and simple. The popularity of F1 these days is due to the simplicity of the cars unlike touring cars which are loosing popularity because they are so complicated and have many moving parts and adjustments.

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Old 05-12-2011, 09:13 PM   #33
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Ehh, it's modest at best. I will just sit and wait for my trg 111 to get here.
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Old 05-12-2011, 09:34 PM   #34
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Well, based on the "cheap and simple" logic I guess we all ought to surrender then and just accept the status quo which means that F1 rc cars will forever be straight axle pan cars as anything else is just too complicated. Kind of like "dumbing down" for the masses. I guess that 20 years from now F1 rc cars will still be using the archaic straight axle pan car design. Ho-hum

It seems that every time someone dares to come out with something different, like the car in question; it seems that those who are comfortable with the way things are "shout down" anyone else who defends the new idea. Why so afraid of change? Why do we have to continue to "dumb down" F1 rc racing!

I just know I'm going to get flamed for this
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Old 05-12-2011, 09:35 PM   #35
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Reminds me of the 1/10 scale series of full suspension 2wd f-1 and Group C cars Kyosho released in the early 90's. A little later they came out with a series of 1/8 electric and gas f1 cars that also had scale lay down dampers. This concept has been tried before and I hope it might catch on this time.

I can't wait to get this car so it can keep my f201 company on the shelf.
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Old 05-12-2011, 09:51 PM   #36
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I want one just to try it. I actually dont expect it to be as fast as the straight axle cars. Hope it handles well.
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Old 05-12-2011, 09:57 PM   #37
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If you use the silver can motor it probably won't be as fast. I think the way to go is with brushless.

Not sure though how you are suppose to install the battery; it obviously mounts inline down the center, but how exactly? Is there even room for a 2 cell lipo or do you need a 1 cell instead? The car is not on the 3 racing website yet; so all we have are these pictures.
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Old 05-12-2011, 10:37 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Lotus View Post
Well, based on the "cheap and simple" logic I guess we all ought to surrender then and just accept the status quo which means that F1 rc cars will forever be straight axle pan cars as anything else is just too complicated. Kind of like "dumbing down" for the masses. I guess that 20 years from now F1 rc cars will still be using the archaic straight axle pan car design. Ho-hum

It seems that every time someone dares to come out with something different, like the car in question; it seems that those who are comfortable with the way things are "shout down" anyone else who defends the new idea. Why so afraid of change? Why do we have to continue to "dumb down" F1 rc racing!

I just know I'm going to get flamed for this
I'm not flaming. Like it has been posted before, current F1 cars are pretty easy to deal with. You can make things pretty complex on a pan car, but it doesn't have to be that way to get good performance. At least some part of the decline of sedan is the complexity of the suspension. I realize that some here would like to have IRS and the challenge of setting that up, but that would probably have a negative effect on participation.

F1 is actually gaining some momentum after years of barely being there at all. Wholesale changes would be bad just because that momentum might be destroyed. If this car had come out 4 or 5 years ago, when F1 was at a low point, maybe it would have redefined the class. Tamiya, to their credit, re introduced the F103 a few years ago and got the class back on track.

To be honest, I still have a hard time believing that an IRS car with a gearbox will be faster than a straight axle direct drive car. It's just hard to say what will happen when the door is opened.
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Old 05-12-2011, 10:47 PM   #39
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Well one thing I do disagree on is that a pan car F1 is a "dumbed down" version. Pan cars can be extremely complex and I have spent just as much time shimming a 1/12th front suspension for the right amount of droop as setting up my touring car. Yeah TCs have more parts but pan cars are in general far from simplistic...However as it applies to F1s I think you are right to an extent. Until recently most F1 chassis have been extremely basic with poor molded plastic parts...not nearly up to the quality of today's race worth 1/12th pan cars. However with cars like the F109 bringing it a bit closer and the Exotech brings F1 almost on par with today's 1/12th. Unfortunately we are still stuck with a not so well done plastic front end.

If anytime is the best to start with a gearbox 2wd F1 it is now. Even with silver can the extra voltage and lighter weight batteries of LiPo will more than compensate for the drag in the gearbox. This new F1 I think is a step in the right direction for that...but I'm not sure it goes far enough. It is still very "plasticy" and that may turn some people off to the concept. I'll wait and see. I'm liking the new 3R touring car too so maybe when I can scrape together enough money I'll do a bulk order and get both. For now it will be just watch and see.
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Old 05-13-2011, 12:02 AM   #40
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i hope Tamiya picks up on this lead from 3Racing... i like what i see.
(wish they'd do a scale front independent suspension as well, though).
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Old 05-13-2011, 01:47 AM   #41
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Looking at these pics, I think perhaps the top deck is on a swivel, allowing EASY access to mount/dismount the battery.


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Old 05-13-2011, 05:37 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Lotus View Post
Well, based on the "cheap and simple" logic I guess we all ought to surrender then and just accept the status quo which means that F1 rc cars will forever be straight axle pan cars as anything else is just too complicated. Kind of like "dumbing down" for the masses. I guess that 20 years from now F1 rc cars will still be using the archaic straight axle pan car design. Ho-hum

It seems that every time someone dares to come out with something different, like the car in question; it seems that those who are comfortable with the way things are "shout down" anyone else who defends the new idea. Why so afraid of change? Why do we have to continue to "dumb down" F1 rc racing!

I just know I'm going to get flamed for this
It is not about being afraid of change. It has been done before and it didn't work. Now that f1 looks pretty cool in a class of it's own but that is pretty much it.

With my RC10L2 with 2s lipo and 10.5t motor and open esc rule that is geared for a 7 minute race i have equal or faster laptimes then the new designed modified touringcars with 4.5t motors that race for 5 minutes.

If drivetrain losses would be less important with todays motors and independant suspension would be better, then surely it would be impossible that a pancar with a higher wind motor have equal or better laptimes then the newest touringcar with a 4.5t.

FACT: the first national race this year in april my fastest laptime with my RC10L2 (designed in 1994 or there about) was 15.51 (lap record of the day i must add). The newest touringcars with 4.5t brushless had a fastest time of 15.68. Fact not fiction.

People really believe they can beat something like that with a 2wd gearbox car with IRS? Till now i haven't seen anything comming even close to what an old fashioned pancar can do. Prove me wrong with actual facts that indeed IRS is better/faster and IF so i will be the first to say they are right and i was wrong.

Till then i am very comfortable with my 10.5t 2s lipo "archaic straight axle pan car" design beating more advanced cars with faster wind motors.
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Old 05-13-2011, 06:55 AM   #43
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Quote:
If drivetrain losses would be less important with todays motors and independant suspension would be better, then surely it would be impossible that a pancar with a higher wind motor have equal or better laptimes then the newest touringcar with a 4.5t.

FACT: the first national race this year in april my fastest laptime with my RC10L2 (designed in 1994 or there about) was 15.51 (lap record of the day i must add). The newest touringcars with 4.5t brushless had a fastest time of 15.68. Fact not fiction.

People really believe they can beat something like that with a 2wd gearbox car with IRS? Till now i haven't seen anything comming even close to what an old fashioned pancar can do. Prove me wrong with actual facts that indeed IRS is better/faster and IF so i will be the first to say they are right and i was wrong.

Till then i am very comfortable with my 10.5t 2s lipo "archaic straight axle pan car" design beating more advanced cars with faster wind motors.
You can't compare foam with rubber tires. I would like to see a 2wd pancar drive with the same rubber compound as we do.
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Old 05-13-2011, 07:10 AM   #44
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You also cannot compare a pan car to a touring car. So many more variables than solid axle vs IRS.

The thing with a going IRS in a F1 car is you can work on the aerodynamics under the car to get more down force. The F1 body is limiting in the amount of down force it creates. It is easy for a pan car to handle very well with the whole car essentially being a wing creating down force.

As for brushed motors. Why are the on road guys holding on to these things? You really do not even consider using a brushed motor in off road these days. I cannot think of any reason to stick with a brushed motor, the brush less systems work so much better.
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Old 05-13-2011, 07:46 AM   #45
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true, we use foams, tc uses rubber. Tc has 4wd and four wheel suspension with oil filled shocks all around, spools, gear diffs etc etc. The mod tc were using 4.5t brushless and we were using 10.5t. Pancars have 2wd and foams and the design hasn't changed much in 20 years. yes, i can't compare the class.

My point was that a pancar design is pretty much set and doesn't need a irs suspension to be fast and complicate things....hence comparing a new state of the art tc car with a car from 1994. I gues we will see if that design is better/easier to work on soon enough or that it will be shelved again after a year or two.
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