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Old 08-10-2012, 07:55 PM   #3361
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i feel like i'm sitting having coffee with adrian newey and ross braun .. thanks for all the great technical info .. i'm a newb but i've come to learn F1 rc cars and their big brothers share a lot of the same tech to run well .. this dialogue is awesome ..

printing images now ..
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Old 08-10-2012, 09:12 PM   #3362
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i love this discussion. wish there was a more centralized source of the suspension tinkering and general knowledge thats being slowly let onto here
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Old 08-10-2012, 09:25 PM   #3363
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As long as everyone learns something from me it makes me happy! There are many ways to skin a cat, ultimately whatever works for you is best!
At the end of this post i will post a vid of me driving one of my cars , you can clearly see that my car handles very good. A few things that i have been working on lately is camber gain on kingpin fronts and the effects that follow and i have gotten away from using any more than 1* static on any track BUT if i need more camber for high speed turns i get it from arm position instead of static. we all know that if you increase static camber you lose initial steering, no way around it but if you can some how have more camber gain through the travel you will have the best of both worlds, extreme turn in excellent mid steering and superb corner speed. Im going to leave it at that for right now!
Here is the vid, yellow R30. watch closely in traffic and how my car transitions through the chicanes also notice how it takes the sweeper!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yvSj...ure=plpp_video
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Old 08-10-2012, 09:45 PM   #3364
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Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
the knuckle is in the same position on those diagrams, what happens when the knuckles moves up while the opposite side knuckle is limited because it cannot go down like a normal suspension would? Twisting the chassis is not what happens on the track. Not saying you are wrong but those sketches dont really tell us anything unless you have a way to simulate the upper arms moving. You only really get about 2mm or so of travel at most.
i'm doing this in photoshop, so it's pretty basic...

The chassis takes no roll attitude? Does your chassis have scratches at the edges? Most do, in fact I would think the FGX cars would roll even more since they have more travel.
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:10 AM   #3365
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Hi guys,thought i would put some pics up of my FGX,had it a few months now.
Love this thing,love it almost as much as my SC10

Normally not much of an onroad fan,but a mate talked me into getting a FGX,seeing as there so cheap( and its a rwd chassis,i dont do much 4wd anything),to race indoor here in Sydney during winter...best 100 bucks i have ever spent


Jordan 191,changed up a bit....here it is after the build.few option parts,exotek and 3racing....super soft shims up front and rear



Here it is with some pretty rims,and a few other bits and pieces





How it currently looks with race rims,painted driver and interior,and a few scratches here and there...still need to get a motor manufacturer on the airbox



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Old 08-11-2012, 05:24 AM   #3366
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The lower link is non moving, but still is used the same as a dynamic lower arm for these purposes (it is just a horizontal line located on the lower pivot balls).
I think this would be more accurately stated as the "line that passes through the center of the lower pivot ball and is perpendicular to the kingpin". It is horizontal on your drawing because the kingpin is vertical, but if the kingpin is leaning in (from a static camber adjustment made by changing the length of the upper suspension arm, for instance) then the line would no longer be horizontal, and the RC would be different. This is why some guys adjust camber by changing the steering knuckle instead of using the turnbuckle on the upper suspension arm.

Thanks for posting this, Rob. For some of us, the technical stuff is the FUN stuff!
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Last edited by howardcano; 08-11-2012 at 05:46 AM.
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Old 08-11-2012, 07:29 AM   #3367
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i'm doing this in photoshop, so it's pretty basic...

The chassis takes no roll attitude? Does your chassis have scratches at the edges? Most do, in fact I would think the FGX cars would roll even more since they have more travel.
I was referring to the drawing, the explanation below is what im talking about. You would have to make some kind of GIF diagram to really get it right.

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Originally Posted by howardcano View Post
I think this would be more accurately stated as the "line that passes through the center of the lower pivot ball and is perpendicular to the kingpin". It is horizontal on your drawing because the kingpin is vertical, but if the kingpin is leaning in (from a static camber adjustment made by changing the length of the upper suspension arm, for instance) then the line would no longer be horizontal, and the RC would be different. This is why some guys adjust camber by changing the steering knuckle instead of using the turnbuckle on the upper suspension arm.

Thanks for posting this, Rob. For some of us, the technical stuff is the FUN stuff!
Good point!
I love the technical stuff too
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Old 08-11-2012, 07:46 AM   #3368
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Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
As long as everyone learns something from me it makes me happy! There are many ways to skin a cat, ultimately whatever works for you is best!
At the end of this post i will post a vid of me driving one of my cars , you can clearly see that my car handles very good. A few things that i have been working on lately is camber gain on kingpin fronts and the effects that follow and i have gotten away from using any more than 1* static on any track BUT if i need more camber for high speed turns i get it from arm position instead of static. we all know that if you increase static camber you lose initial steering, no way around it but if you can some how have more camber gain through the travel you will have the best of both worlds, extreme turn in excellent mid steering and superb corner speed. Im going to leave it at that for right now!
Here is the vid, yellow R30. watch closely in traffic and how my car transitions through the chicanes also notice how it takes the sweeper!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yvSj...ure=plpp_video

i understand how camber works and how it can change, BUT whats bothering me is how are we going to be able to adjust the FGX (or any car without dedicated camber links) to increase the camber during turning. i run offroad so i do get (for the most part) how it benefits the car. i just dont see it as possible on our cars (yet?)
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Old 08-11-2012, 06:45 PM   #3369
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Originally Posted by Midwest_Mudder View Post
i understand how camber works and how it can change, BUT whats bothering me is how are we going to be able to adjust the FGX (or any car without dedicated camber links) to increase the camber during turning. i run offroad so i do get (for the most part) how it benefits the car. i just dont see it as possible on our cars (yet?)
Well of course the FGX has adjustable front camber- switch out the arm mounts just like on the F104. The problem with the stock suspension though is due to the upward angled upper arms you get positive camber instead of negative when front suspension is compressed. That's something the Exotek chassis tries to correct a little.
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Old 08-11-2012, 07:05 PM   #3370
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so, does it (the exotech chassis) give the correct negative camber change? im not putting the chassis down because i am in the market for a different chassis, but would like to make the most informed decision on a chassis before purchasing.
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Old 08-11-2012, 08:03 PM   #3371
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correct me if i am wrong, but I believe with the exotek or stock chassis you can change front camber one of 2 ways....
first off by getting one of these in whatever degree you want.
http://os.3racing.hk/products.php?products_key=5427

or by doing this.
http://www.exotekracing.com/fgx-adju...front-arm-set/
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Old 08-11-2012, 08:25 PM   #3372
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yup, static camber. we were talkin bout the camber changing during suspension roll and such. theres some aweful interesting stuff in here kevin. read the last 2 i believe pages, basically trying to figure out how we can get more negative camber while turning so we have more turn in AND be able to keep good corner speed. at least thats how im reading this...
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Old 08-11-2012, 08:59 PM   #3373
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Originally Posted by Midwest_Mudder View Post
...trying to figure out how we can get more negative camber while turning...
We would need to either raise the height of the outer ball on the upper arm by using a longer kingpin, or lower the height of the inner balls where the upper arms attach to the chassis. I don't know of any way to do either on the stock FGX. Maybe the guys making the conversion kits have come up with something.

As Mike pointed out, the outer ball is actually lower than the inner balls on the FGX. I assume this was done for scale appearance, but unfortunately it gives positive camber gain on compression-- exactly the opposite of what is desired. So the ball locations would need to be changed drastically to give negative camber gain.

Do any of the conversion kits permit the use of the F103GT style suspension? It may not look scale for a high-nose car, but it sure would work better. (Edit: Oops, that would make the car wider!)

A compromise solution might be to lock the upper and lower arms together, and let the kingpin slide through both outboard pivot balls (which would no longer then pivot) like the original F103. There would not be any negative camber gain on compression, but at least it wouldn't go positive like the stock FGX design does.
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Old 08-11-2012, 09:15 PM   #3374
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so, if we were to say, countersink the balls into the upper chassis would that possibly help our situation, i dont think its possible honestly the more i look at the car, but we are at a good couple three millimeters above the chassis stock... hmmm
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:50 AM   #3375
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F104 kingpins are longer ( you can shim the arms up ) and dont have the circlip groove ( weak part ) of the originals. HTH
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