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Old 07-23-2012, 11:03 PM   #3181
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My F104 is 183-185mm
FGX is about the same ...
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:24 PM   #3182
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Really the FGX represents everything that is slowly destroying TC.

High cost - The kit is cheap but how many parts do you need to make it fast and reliable?

Complicated design - Many adjustments which just make the fast faster and the slow slower.

Glad we don't allow in NZ and won't be anytime soon by the looks of things.

Mike
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:33 PM   #3183
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Originally Posted by NewWestF1 View Post
fgx build starts in ernest this week .. hope to have mine out for testing first weekend in august .. happy to be a vegas outlaw.
Make sure to post some build pic's of your new ride .. Always nice to see another F1 joining in all the fun ..
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:47 PM   #3184
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Really the FGX represents everything that is slowly destroying TC.

High cost - The kit is cheap but how many parts do you need to make it fast and reliable?

Complicated design - Many adjustments which just make the fast faster and the slow slower.

Glad we don't allow in NZ and won't be anytime soon by the looks of things.

Mike
I initially thought the same. But here we have 7 new drivers (who joined f1 mainly because of the FGX).

We also resisted the temptation for any upgrades and have been running it stock. No breakage issues. Just basic epoxy reinforcement.

5mm ride height, 1mm droop, diff oil in the shocks, shock oil in the diff. That will basically give you good runs.

So an FGX is $100 here (with rubber tires) versus Tamiya F104 v2 ($300 basic, $500USD hop uped).

It is the Tamiya v2 that will kill the hobby. Expensive, overpriced and weak link suspension. And that link setup stuff can get complicated as well.
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:56 PM   #3185
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Originally Posted by ixlr8nz View Post
Really the FGX represents everything that is slowly destroying TC.

High cost - The kit is cheap but how many parts do you need to make it fast and reliable?

Complicated design - Many adjustments which just make the fast faster and the slow slower.

Glad we don't allow in NZ and won't be anytime soon by the looks of things.

Mike
, Not many parts needed .. most people will reinforce the weak stuff and drive the crap out of it .. everybody spends the same amount on speedo's / motors and tires ,,,
Fast are faster and slow slower ,, that depends on SET up and Drivers ability.
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Old 07-24-2012, 12:37 AM   #3186
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A lot of valid points and it does sort of clear up the reasoning to why the FGX cars are outlawed. It's progression, better engineering, and the hobby will move forward. The FGX's need a class of their own. An "open" F1 per say, not an out right ban.

A racer was at WC with an F1 car and it was dialed. Don't know who the guy was. It out handled all of the other F1's on the track. Curiosity got the better of me and the need to know what kind of car it was. Checked his car out when he was in the bathroom! Tamiya? lol No!! FGX baby!! This was the sickest F1 car EVER! Front links, carbon fiber everywhere, cantilever suspension, rubber tires, 1/18 scale threaded shocks, and more. Should've stuck around to ask him questions but, noticing the poor attitude of racers these days told me not to say anything to him. Wonder if there are pictures of it on the internet somewhere. Wasn't quick enough to snap a few myself

How come the speed controls with boost and timing were not banned when they first came onto the market? Running against them was hard and they had a huge advantage! It took years before RC tracks and sanctioning bodies made separate classes for the different ESC's.

The equipment out today is far superior to what's in my rides (first generation).

RC car racing was suppose to be about having a fun time with friends and meeting new people. Unfortunately, winning and egos gets in the way.
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Old 07-24-2012, 02:04 AM   #3187
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A lot of valid points and it does sort of clear up the reasoning to why the FGX cars are outlawed. It's progression, better engineering, and the hobby will move forward. The FGX's need a class of their own. An "open" F1 per say, not an out right ban.

A racer was at WC with an F1 car and it was dialed. Don't know who the guy was. It out handled all of the other F1's on the track. Curiosity got the better of me and the need to know what kind of car it was. Checked his car out when he was in the bathroom! Tamiya? lol No!! FGX baby!! This was the sickest F1 car EVER! Front links, carbon fiber everywhere, cantilever suspension, rubber tires, 1/18 scale threaded shocks, and more. Should've stuck around to ask him questions but, noticing the poor attitude of racers these days told me not to say anything to him. Wonder if there are pictures of it on the internet somewhere. Wasn't quick enough to snap a few myself

How come the speed controls with boost and timing were not banned when they first came onto the market? Running against them was hard and they had a huge advantage! It took years before RC tracks and sanctioning bodies made separate classes for the different ESC's.

The equipment out today is far superior to what's in my rides (first generation).

RC car racing was suppose to be about having a fun time with friends and meeting new people. Unfortunately, winning and egos gets in the way.
Your last comment keep echoing in my ear. This is the hobby we are talking about in this site and is supposed to fun and relaxing. There IS the moment of egony sometime when struggling to make the car drivable but eventually all are paid off in the end. I envy people in the environment where they can drive around with other people and sharing the joiy with fellow hobbists. I haven't had a chance to do that yet, just dreaming. However, at the same time, I can imagine the ego comes in a way sometimes based on the experience of life.
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:00 AM   #3188
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A lot of valid points and it does sort of clear up the reasoning to why the FGX cars are outlawed. It's progression, better engineering, and the hobby will move forward. The FGX's need a class of their own. An "open" F1 per say, not an out right ban.
No it isn't better engineering...as much as I like my FGX it is one of the poorest engineered car out there. The plastics that 3Racing uses are not very good. The fit and finish of the car is poor. A lot of finessing is needed to make the diff work right. What it is, is a car built by throwing together a bunch of parts from existing cars and making it fit a F1 body. It isn't better...but it is different. Problem is different makes writing rules difficult. Writing a good set of rules is about keeping a balance between a level playing field and allowing diversity. The 2 are naturally at odds so sometimes the diversity has to be sacrificed.

As for another class...people already want an open class for the pan car converted f1's...now another one for the independent suspension cars? Truth is as popular as F1 has become...it still doesn't have enough participation to be able to support multiple classes of F1 at a single event.
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Old 07-24-2012, 05:14 AM   #3189
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Yep , got to agree , the consumer gets to do most of the R&D work when they buy something 3racing .

The type of track you race on determines the amount of upgrades required. Open tracks, the stock car is ok. But indoors , I wanted something stronger. This is where the Exotek upgrades kick in......

I have the exo chassis, arm stiffeners and rear arms . Ball diff, swaybar , carbon wing end plates and TRG f104 knuckles . I believe this is still cheaper to buy than a race f104 , the parts easier to get and in stock more often.

My car is pretty fast with a silver can in it. Probably not much faster than a stock FGX , but I can drive it faster , because it is less prone to tweaking and my confidence level is so much higher. I enjoy pushing my car and my skills to the limit and sometimes over that limit , and now I have a setup that can take the odd " whoops" , without needing a dustpan and broom.......
If only Xray made a decent F1 , I would happily pay 300+ dollars for the privilige of owning one
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:58 AM   #3190
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Originally Posted by ixlr8nz View Post
Really the FGX represents everything that is slowly destroying TC.

High cost - The kit is cheap but how many parts do you need to make it fast and reliable?

Complicated design - Many adjustments which just make the fast faster and the slow slower.

Glad we don't allow in NZ and won't be anytime soon by the looks of things.

Mike
1. The chassis kits are reliability driven. The stock upper deck does have weak points. The chassis kits by Exotek and McKune are not expensive when compared to the cost of constant upper replacement from racing on tracks with barriers and walls. All other parts are either bought by choice or as tuning options. The F104 is initially more expensive and costs even more to make it competitive. Around $200 USD to get the FGX to snuff and around $250 or more to hop up the F104 to make it competitive. Even the wonderful old F103 goes up in cost quickly with basic needed durability and tuning hop ups: aluminum motor mount, center damper, front turnbuckle set and rear aluminum diff housing.

2. Complicated: have you built one? This car is not difficult to build or tune. Its not even a major leap in technology.

If you ever get a chance to drive one, please do so. I still enjoy F103s, but I like the FGXs more. Mostly because they do look more realistic.
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:03 AM   #3191
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This is a beautiful car. A work of art really.

You also can't buy it. Even if you could it would be a lot more expensive than an F104V2 in my estimation.

With the exception of when Tamiya ran an F201 class to promote their 4wd F1, F1 has always been straight axle cars. 3Racing came out with a car that used a lot of existing parts with any regard for any class that had been established. That is their perogative, as they are in business to make money. However, now that the car is out there, people want to run the car with the straight axle cars. To me it's kind of like a wider than legal full suspension 1/12 car coming out, and everyone wanting to run with the cars that are out there. I do realize there were full suspension 1/12 cars in the 80s, but they have been ruled out for 20 years.

The stock FGX car is not really the problem. They are cheap, fun, and have realistic suspension. I'd actually like to have one. The problem is that the car above is the logical end of the FGX.

If you look at Stormer Hobbies right now, the CRC GenX WGT car is less than $200. That is one of the baddest WGT straight axle cars you can buy for under $200. My point is that someone like CRC could produce a similar F1 car for that kind of price at the absolute top level. Tamiya makes great stuff, but also at Tamiya prices

I think that is why some of the bigger races are sticking with straight axle cars. The zenith of sedan's popularity came when even the top end cars were molded cars you could buy for about $250 (TC3). The hardest thing is to try to balance what will keep a class inclusive and what will stop it from burning out.
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:09 AM   #3192
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Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
No it isn't better engineering...as much as I like my FGX it is one of the poorest engineered car out there. The plastics that 3Racing uses are not very good. The fit and finish of the car is poor. A lot of finessing is needed to make the diff work right. What it is, is a car built by throwing together a bunch of parts from existing cars and making it fit a F1 body. It isn't better...but it is different. Problem is different makes writing rules difficult. Writing a good set of rules is about keeping a balance between a level playing field and allowing diversity. The 2 are naturally at odds so sometimes the diversity has to be sacrificed.

As for another class...people already want an open class for the pan car converted f1's...now another one for the independent suspension cars? Truth is as popular as F1 has become...it still doesn't have enough participation to be able to support multiple classes of F1 at a single event.
Well put, open classes would require huge attendance.
But the question remains: why outlaw something if it isnt an advantage, just different?
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:14 AM   #3193
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Originally Posted by M4 Racing View Post
A lot of valid points and it does sort of clear up the reasoning to why the FGX cars are outlawed. It's progression, better engineering, and the hobby will move forward. The FGX's need a class of their own. An "open" F1 per say, not an out right ban.

A racer was at WC with an F1 car and it was dialed. Don't know who the guy was. It out handled all of the other F1's on the track. Curiosity got the better of me and the need to know what kind of car it was. Checked his car out when he was in the bathroom! Tamiya? lol No!! FGX baby!! This was the sickest F1 car EVER! Front links, carbon fiber everywhere, cantilever suspension, rubber tires, 1/18 scale threaded shocks, and more. Should've stuck around to ask him questions but, noticing the poor attitude of racers these days told me not to say anything to him. Wonder if there are pictures of it on the internet somewhere. Wasn't quick enough to snap a few myself

How come the speed controls with boost and timing were not banned when they first came onto the market? Running against them was hard and they had a huge advantage! It took years before RC tracks and sanctioning bodies made separate classes for the different ESC's.

The equipment out today is far superior to what's in my rides (first generation).

RC car racing was suppose to be about having a fun time with friends and meeting new people. Unfortunately, winning and egos gets in the way.
You should have stuck around to ask him questions. By what you were looking at, it sounds like you still could have been looking a stock kit.

I ask you, even if from somewhere else in the world, to look at the UF1 rule set pertaining to the specifics of the car requirements. The goal of the series is to compete, but more importantly to keep the cars on a level playing field so the potential is there to win at any given race. That being said, if you still can't drive well, you will not finish well. I personally need a lot more practice.

As far as the electronics comments. F1 around the US is generally 21.5 with a no timing ESC or is moving towards that end. It is slow enough so as not to destroy a car in every turn, but fast enough to require good driving technique. If there is a long straight, it may feel a little slow, but to scale it is very very fast.

And your last comment is always true, no matter what class. I keep my ego at home when I go play with toy cars. I prefer to leave with a smile.
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Old 07-24-2012, 09:32 AM   #3194
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Originally Posted by liljohn1064 View Post
You should have stuck around to ask him questions. By what you were looking at, it sounds like you still could have been looking a stock kit.

I ask you, even if from somewhere else in the world, to look at the USF1 rule set pertaining to the specifics of the car requirements. The goal of the series is to compete, but more importantly to keep the cars on a level playing field so the potential is there to win at any given race. That being said, if you still can't drive well, you will not finish well. I personally need a lot more practice.

As far as the electronics comments. F1 around the US is generally 21.5 with a no timing ESC or is moving towards that end. It is slow enough so as not to destroy a car in every turn, but fast enough to require good driving technique. If there is a long straight, it may feel a little slow, but to scale it is very very fast.

And your last comment is always true, no matter what class. I keep my ego at home when I go play with toy cars. I prefer to leave with a smile.
What is USF1? I am only aware of UF1 as a body of rules for Rc F1.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:10 AM   #3195
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What is USF1? I am only aware of UF1 as a body of rules for Rc F1.
My fault extra letter... bad John. UF1 is correct.
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