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Old 04-29-2012, 10:40 PM   #2506
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The more diff balls you use the smoother the diff will be. This is why pan car diff gears are ending up with more and more holes.
I understand that but the center of them rides on the edge of the diff rings which I don't like. It needs new larger diameter diff rings and the diff needs to be sealed off from the outside world in an enclosed case so nothing can get to them. Using the inner holes isn't optimal but I don't see another useful option on this piece of junk. I'll play with it more but I'm probably going to end up doing something totally different in the rear of this car.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:07 PM   #2507
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A larger diff ring will help with where the diff balls ride...but won't do much in helping keep dirt out. I remember the old Magic spur gears that had a lip that the diff rings would snap into. The idea was to help keep dirt out but it still got in. Even the Kimbro gears have a dirt shield that snaps on the diff gear to help keep the dirt out...most stopped using them because dirt still got in.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:40 PM   #2508
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two words: Mcmaster Carr
McMaster Carr doesn't have them. =(

It took me a while but I finally found one that wasn't $20. Had to google for "M2.6 x .45 tap" to find some lower cost options. For some odd reason "M2.6 x 0.45 tap" returned all the results that were $20 and up. Ended up getting it from some random place online for < $15 shipped.

Thanks to all for the help and suggestions.
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Old 04-30-2012, 06:51 AM   #2509
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A larger diff ring will help with where the diff balls ride...but won't do much in helping keep dirt out. I remember the old Magic spur gears that had a lip that the diff rings would snap into. The idea was to help keep dirt out but it still got in. Even the Kimbro gears have a dirt shield that snaps on the diff gear to help keep the dirt out...most stopped using them because dirt still got in.
Yeah I'd like the larger rings just to be sure the balls aren't riding directly on the edge. I'm going to try to fab up a completely sealed gear case to help take care of any debris. I know pan cars have an open diff/spur gear but it is also the main thing that is always getting rebuilt on them too. Then again there isn't much to those cars.
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Old 04-30-2012, 06:59 AM   #2510
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Yeah I'd like the larger rings just to be sure the balls aren't riding directly on the edge. I'm going to try to fab up a completely sealed gear case to help take care of any debris. I know pan cars have an open diff/spur gear but it is also the main thing that is always getting rebuilt on them too. Then again there isn't much to those cars.

Much simpler to just put a piece of black tape over the opening in the chassis
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Old 04-30-2012, 08:27 AM   #2511
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That still wouldn't enclose it. It would just close a hole in the chassis.
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Old 04-30-2012, 08:33 AM   #2512
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I thought that was the trade off with a ball diff. Easier to make adjustments but requires more maintenance due to dirt contamination. I never heard of a sealed ball diff that was maintenance free. I used to rebuild ball diffs between heats to maximize performance.
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:05 AM   #2513
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In off road cars you don't need to rebuild a ball diff between heats. I go months. It's only when they get flat spotted that there's an issue. No dirt contamination. On road should be no different if it's sealed.
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:33 AM   #2514
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speaking off ball diffs... the couple of times I've rebuilt my diff on the FGX I have not seen any circular line groove on the diff plates... What am I doing wrong ?... I keep my diff on the tight side... also I've notice my car has very little initial power off the line, I'm wondering if this has anything to do with the diff ?
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:50 AM   #2515
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That still wouldn't enclose it. It would just close a hole in the chassis.
90% of the dirt comes from that opening, being that this is onroad the dirt is not much of an issue, i am still on my original gear set and its not chunked up. I take my car apart every week anyway so cleaning it is not much of an issue for me!


Got a chance to run the IFS yesterday, I broke the track record for laptime,qualifying and main with my FQ01 -104. the past record was 11.525 i ran 11.2. in practice with my FGX i ran a best of 11.3 but the issue was the tab on the lower linkage that is used for the cantilever rod. if i came in contact with anyone or rubbed the wall it would move and throw the car off so i opted not to race it . So it looks like i am going to have to machine a lower arm before i get it back on the track. i pulled off the 11.3's with a fair amount of push, i am confident i could pull off an 11 flat with the right tires but i didnt spend time messing with it. The 104's have exit push that doesnt exist with my FGX and i feel this is where i can gain time along with the superior turn in.
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:26 AM   #2516
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speaking off ball diffs... the couple of times I've rebuilt my diff on the FGX I have not seen any circular line groove on the diff plates... What am I doing wrong ?... I keep my diff on the tight side... also I've notice my car has very little initial power off the line, I'm wondering if this has anything to do with the diff ?
What is your set up? Mine is as follows and I have enough torque and acceleration to chirp tires and break the rear loose at will out of the turns. Plenty of corner exit acceleration and it will torque steer from a dead stop if you're not careful.

reedy sonic 21.5
Novak edge
linear throttle profile
minimum drive on 3
31 pinion 35 spur
ball diff not tight but firm
Pit shimizu grooved tires

it may be a simple speed control setting that is not allowing the initial punch on power.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:58 PM   #2517
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Ok, something new to try.

F104 King pins, black springs for now.

Order of assembly bottom to top: kingping, e-clip, then a 2mm spacer, a black spring, insert pin into lower arm, through the steering arm, add 3mm of spacers, insert into upper arm, compress the spring and lock the pin up with the set screw, put on the upper e-clip and release the pin with the set screw and adjust the set screw at the steering arm normal height.

The pin fits in the wheel well and doesn't rub. With shimming at various places, ride height can be adjusted up or down. With this setup, front ride height is at 5mm, same as factory. I also tried it with CRC spring perches on the bottom, but that left a little more play than the 2mm aluminum spacers. Track testing on Thursday!
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:03 PM   #2518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
90% of the dirt comes from that opening, being that this is onroad the dirt is not much of an issue, i am still on my original gear set and its not chunked up. I take my car apart every week anyway so cleaning it is not much of an issue for me!


Got a chance to run the IFS yesterday, I broke the track record for laptime,qualifying and main with my FQ01 -104. the past record was 11.525 i ran 11.2. in practice with my FGX i ran a best of 11.3 but the issue was the tab on the lower linkage that is used for the cantilever rod. if i came in contact with anyone or rubbed the wall it would move and throw the car off so i opted not to race it . So it looks like i am going to have to machine a lower arm before i get it back on the track. i pulled off the 11.3's with a fair amount of push, i am confident i could pull off an 11 flat with the right tires but i didnt spend time messing with it. The 104's have exit push that doesnt exist with my FGX and i feel this is where i can gain time along with the superior turn in.
On the one parking lot track we've run in the UF1 series so far, the FGX was superior, even stock, to the F-104, solid axle pan cars need a smooth surface to have an advantage to fully suspended cars, they really should not even be in the same class
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:43 PM   #2519
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Only the Awesomatix A700 has an oil filled sealed ball diff . Are you guys running the 12ball FF3 ball diff ??? It's the best ! It should also be able to put all the power of a 21.5t to the ground easily.....
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:29 PM   #2520
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Originally Posted by 6376vette View Post
What is your set up? Mine is as follows and I have enough torque and acceleration to chirp tires and break the rear loose at will out of the turns. Plenty of corner exit acceleration and it will torque steer from a dead stop if you're not careful.

reedy sonic 21.5
Novak edge
linear throttle profile
minimum drive on 3
31 pinion 35 spur
ball diff not tight but firm
Pit shimizu grooved tires

it may be a simple speed control setting that is not allowing the initial punch on power.
Set up is pretty similar to yours... except a Tekin RS on blinky mode that used to give me chirp tires on start when I had a gear diff... do you see that circular groove in your diff plate ? I'm just wondering now if my balls are big enough to make contact with the plates... I'm not going to bother correcting that sentence...
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