Boost is Dead
04-21-2011, 05:56 AM
#196
04-21-2011, 06:22 AM
#198
If you are club racing and starting out, run a slower motor. We all did.
Hang out with the pro's in boosted setups when you have big enough bits down below to run good lap times and understand what racing is about.
NO, that doesn't meen you need a TEKIN either, there are plenty of other timing adjustable ESC's out there
As for ROAR events. C'mon please...
If you are going to a ROAR event, you are expecting competition to be fierce.
If you can't programme an ESC you should not be racing at ROAR level.
You don't go to a ROAR event without understanding spring rates, oil rates, droop, rebound, toe settings, gearing etc etc so why should boost be any different?
You don't attend any bigger than club size event and expect to win the A easily....
Boost - it's only dead if enough haters vote non boosted in, the lap time you loose from not allowing boost, the pro's will find other ways to make their lap times better....
Then we will need to blame something else....
Like... One run tyres?
Or how about lightweight bodyshells?
Or secret formula additives?
There are PLENTY of things to hate on, but imo... boost isn't one of them.
Hang out with the pro's in boosted setups when you have big enough bits down below to run good lap times and understand what racing is about.
NO, that doesn't meen you need a TEKIN either, there are plenty of other timing adjustable ESC's out there
As for ROAR events. C'mon please...
If you are going to a ROAR event, you are expecting competition to be fierce.
If you can't programme an ESC you should not be racing at ROAR level.
You don't go to a ROAR event without understanding spring rates, oil rates, droop, rebound, toe settings, gearing etc etc so why should boost be any different?
You don't attend any bigger than club size event and expect to win the A easily....
Boost - it's only dead if enough haters vote non boosted in, the lap time you loose from not allowing boost, the pro's will find other ways to make their lap times better....
Then we will need to blame something else....
Like... One run tyres?
Or how about lightweight bodyshells?
Or secret formula additives?
There are PLENTY of things to hate on, but imo... boost isn't one of them.
04-21-2011, 06:22 AM
#199
I got well done by spec changes from 2010 to 2011, which was nice having bought my equipment late 2010 to start racing with this year, ESC not legal and motor no good cause SS got thrown out the window, nice to be able to race in, well nothing with what I have, a fine "welcome to electric" for me.
Of course I can race at my club, but if I want to play anywhere else, or at any major event, I have to cough up for another couple of hundred bucks to go a lot faster or a lot slower, any wonder that I bought a novarossi to go nitro touring...
Of course I can race at my club, but if I want to play anywhere else, or at any major event, I have to cough up for another couple of hundred bucks to go a lot faster or a lot slower, any wonder that I bought a novarossi to go nitro touring...
04-21-2011, 07:34 AM
#200
OK, here is my 2 cents, as a motor manufacturer.
I have made this suggestion to ROAR in writing with no response.
Stock class should be stock class. Super Stock should be super stock. Modified should be modified.
Blinky mode is a joke IMO, until ROAR steps up to the plate and makes every manufacturer offer a 21.5, 17.5, and 13.5 turn motor, WITH NO TIMING ADJUSTMENT, that has a ROAR MANDATED 24 Degrees of timing built into the sensor board assembly. Force every manufacturer to submit a motor built to these exact specs, or else that brand will not have a legal motor offering for stock classes. How ROAR adopted the rules package we use today, and allowed stock motors to have adjustable timing is beyond me.
27turn 24 degree stock motor racing worked... why? Because all manufacturers had to build a better mousetrap, within the same specs.
So here we are, now preparing to negate all of the technical advances companies have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to develop in ESC technology, just to open up another all out war... the motor timing war.
Lets make stock racing like it should be. Pick your brand of choice blinky mode ESC, and (hypothetical) 24 degree 17.5 locked can motor, and go racing, knowing that the guy next to you on the drivers stand has EXACTLY 24 degrees in their motor, and their ESC is blinking in all of its no-timing glory.
Yes Batteries and motors will become more important than the ESC... I am OK with that.
Now Super Stock. I think super stock should be similar. Locked 24 degrees of timing in a 13.5 motor. Throw in your Blinky mode ESC of choice, and go racing. With the timing locked, so many variables are eliminated.
Allow Boost or timing profiles in Modified, along with adjustable timing...
It was done in brushed days, why the hell cant it work now?!
Matt Murphy
Owner - MurfDogg Motor Works
I have made this suggestion to ROAR in writing with no response.
Stock class should be stock class. Super Stock should be super stock. Modified should be modified.
Blinky mode is a joke IMO, until ROAR steps up to the plate and makes every manufacturer offer a 21.5, 17.5, and 13.5 turn motor, WITH NO TIMING ADJUSTMENT, that has a ROAR MANDATED 24 Degrees of timing built into the sensor board assembly. Force every manufacturer to submit a motor built to these exact specs, or else that brand will not have a legal motor offering for stock classes. How ROAR adopted the rules package we use today, and allowed stock motors to have adjustable timing is beyond me.
27turn 24 degree stock motor racing worked... why? Because all manufacturers had to build a better mousetrap, within the same specs.
So here we are, now preparing to negate all of the technical advances companies have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to develop in ESC technology, just to open up another all out war... the motor timing war.
Lets make stock racing like it should be. Pick your brand of choice blinky mode ESC, and (hypothetical) 24 degree 17.5 locked can motor, and go racing, knowing that the guy next to you on the drivers stand has EXACTLY 24 degrees in their motor, and their ESC is blinking in all of its no-timing glory.
Yes Batteries and motors will become more important than the ESC... I am OK with that.
Now Super Stock. I think super stock should be similar. Locked 24 degrees of timing in a 13.5 motor. Throw in your Blinky mode ESC of choice, and go racing. With the timing locked, so many variables are eliminated.
Allow Boost or timing profiles in Modified, along with adjustable timing...
It was done in brushed days, why the hell cant it work now?!
Matt Murphy
Owner - MurfDogg Motor Works
04-21-2011, 07:43 AM
#201
I got well done by spec changes from 2010 to 2011, which was nice having bought my equipment late 2010 to start racing with this year, ESC not legal and motor no good cause SS got thrown out the window, nice to be able to race in, well nothing with what I have, a fine "welcome to electric" for me.
Of course I can race at my club, but if I want to play anywhere else, or at any major event, I have to cough up for another couple of hundred bucks to go a lot faster or a lot slower, any wonder that I bought a novarossi to go nitro touring...
Of course I can race at my club, but if I want to play anywhere else, or at any major event, I have to cough up for another couple of hundred bucks to go a lot faster or a lot slower, any wonder that I bought a novarossi to go nitro touring...
most clubs have a pull start class,but after that its .12 or 21
there is no
4 port class
6 port class
8 port class
as far as i know
if people want a more even playing field maybe limit battery capacity and make the races longer,all well and good to have the latest esc/motor with all the bells and whistles but if it cant last a 8-10 minute race with out dumping the battery ?
look at nitro truggy,lot of guys went 28s till they found in a 30-60 min final they had to refuel more often,went back to 21s
04-21-2011, 08:02 AM
#202
i have not run nitro for a few years but are the rules still the same ?
most clubs have a pull start class,but after that its .12 or 21
there is no
4 port class
6 port class
8 port class
as far as i know
if people want a more even playing field maybe limit battery capacity and make the races longer,all well and good to have the latest esc/motor with all the bells and whistles but if it cant last a 8-10 minute race with out dumping the battery ?
look at nitro truggy,lot of guys went 28s till they found in a 30-60 min final they had to refuel more often,went back to 21s
most clubs have a pull start class,but after that its .12 or 21
there is no
4 port class
6 port class
8 port class
as far as i know
if people want a more even playing field maybe limit battery capacity and make the races longer,all well and good to have the latest esc/motor with all the bells and whistles but if it cant last a 8-10 minute race with out dumping the battery ?
look at nitro truggy,lot of guys went 28s till they found in a 30-60 min final they had to refuel more often,went back to 21s
04-21-2011, 08:23 AM
#204
To be honest this is mostly an on-road issue. On-road is really the only place where you can actually put down the power of a boosted motor. I run at probably the highest grip indoor off-road track in the world and you still cannot put down the power of a boosted class. Although it is fun watching the boosted guys fly into the plexi-glass at the end of the straight. Modified is a lot more conducive in off-road to going faster, as you can put down the power immediately in the right places. Besides Nitro does not have instant power anywhere...so it is very hard to compare.
there not bitching cause the guy next to them is running a $500 motor while they can only afford a $150 motor.
i dont have a easy answer myself how to sort electric on-road out
but we cant keep holding back on progress other wise we would still be running
fibre glass chassis with silver can motors and mechanical speedies with nicads
there is always going to be some thing new and better no matter the rules
personally i love speed
but they vta or usgt ? is also some thing i would like to see take off
04-21-2011, 08:26 AM
#205
Of course not Mike!!!! I guess many of us just hope that if we can voice our opinions, and back them up with logical support, perhaps we can get the Sanctioning Body, (who shall remain nameless), to listen to the people that ACTUALLY RACE the classes they're trying to govern.
04-21-2011, 08:30 AM
#206
i have not run nitro for a few years but are the rules still the same ?
if people want a more even playing field maybe limit battery capacity and make the races longer,all well and good to have the latest esc/motor with all the bells and whistles but if it cant last a 8-10 minute race with out dumping the battery ?
look at nitro truggy,lot of guys went 28s till they found in a 30-60 min final they had to refuel more often,went back to 21s
if people want a more even playing field maybe limit battery capacity and make the races longer,all well and good to have the latest esc/motor with all the bells and whistles but if it cant last a 8-10 minute race with out dumping the battery ?
look at nitro truggy,lot of guys went 28s till they found in a 30-60 min final they had to refuel more often,went back to 21s
But that is not all fair, cause I do enjoy the electric, I just want to see it find some sense of stability again, with something in there that suits what I want from it.
Funny you mention the batteries, a discussion with a mate recently brought about the issue in electric of having an unlimited fuel tank, with zero weight penalty related to having that.
In fact at a recent casual meet, I ran with some nitro guys in a 15min final, my Photon had the 10.5T zero timing with a 5000mah battery, I ran flat out the whole final, and made the full time, then a friend did some laps to try my car when I was done, so why on earth does everyone still want to run 5min races in electric???.
04-21-2011, 08:40 AM
#207
i cant help but laugh at posts like these.
when i first started in rc cars a 1200mah nicad was the only choice
a 05 stock motor was the king.
now after all these years of wanting more power people complain its to fast
roflmao.seems to me there is to many who dont want change,they want to pull the trigger flat and steer.they still want nimh
the whole idea is throttle control and setup.
why slow a class down just because a few cant keep up,they should be in a slower class.
all this crap about making a even playing field and cheaper is a joke.
if a guy has money to burn he will just over gear and replace motors every couple meets,new tyres,higher c rating batteries,the latest fast motor.
seems the days have gone were we used to say "hey look tony has a new battery and motor,that thing fly,s awesome" now its "tony has a new motor and its faster than mine,i am going to scream and cry and get his motor band"
when i first started in rc cars a 1200mah nicad was the only choice
a 05 stock motor was the king.
now after all these years of wanting more power people complain its to fast
roflmao.seems to me there is to many who dont want change,they want to pull the trigger flat and steer.they still want nimh
the whole idea is throttle control and setup.
why slow a class down just because a few cant keep up,they should be in a slower class.
all this crap about making a even playing field and cheaper is a joke.
if a guy has money to burn he will just over gear and replace motors every couple meets,new tyres,higher c rating batteries,the latest fast motor.
seems the days have gone were we used to say "hey look tony has a new battery and motor,that thing fly,s awesome" now its "tony has a new motor and its faster than mine,i am going to scream and cry and get his motor band"
roar created a slower class at carpet nats for the slower drivers or those of us that didn't want to race world class drivers in "stock" (no boost 17.5) it was successful racers that would have stayed home showed up and I think that is the whole purpose behind this discussion or rules packages, to up turnout, class is to slow don't run it, but don't bitch cause someone wants to and if more guys show up for the "big" races then thats a good thing
04-21-2011, 08:40 AM
#208
Tech Addict
In fact at a recent casual meet, I ran with some nitro guys in a 15min final, my Photon had the 10.5T zero timing with a 5000mah battery, I ran flat out the whole final, and made the full time, then a friend did some laps to try my car when I was done, so why on earth does everyone still want to run 5min races in electric???.
In my boosted superstock car, I use under 2000 mah in the 5 minutes + warmup. So in order to limit battery, we need batteries with less than 2000mah. Good luck balancing that car!
04-21-2011, 08:44 AM
#209
I got well done by spec changes from 2010 to 2011, which was nice having bought my equipment late 2010 to start racing with this year, ESC not legal and motor no good cause SS got thrown out the window, nice to be able to race in, well nothing with what I have, a fine "welcome to electric" for me.
Of course I can race at my club, but if I want to play anywhere else, or at any major event, I have to cough up for another couple of hundred bucks to go a lot faster or a lot slower, any wonder that I bought a novarossi to go nitro touring...
Of course I can race at my club, but if I want to play anywhere else, or at any major event, I have to cough up for another couple of hundred bucks to go a lot faster or a lot slower, any wonder that I bought a novarossi to go nitro touring...