Boost is Dead
04-20-2011, 01:46 PM
#106
Well Im gonna speak up for the newbies. Ran my first race last week at local track and had a blast in mod. Ran a 10.5 with boost and timing advance with 65c batteries and really enjoyed standing on the drivers stand with a national champion and some talented ranked local drivers. Having said that Stock racing is where I should be. My speedo was programmed by a friend , my pinion and gearing was recommended a pro, the tires were spec all I had to do was drive. Stock or (blinky) is great for a beginner like me because you can focus on getting the most out of your car , my Xray is more talented than me, in blinky mode I feel like a better driver I dont overdrive the car I can follow my lines and enjoy. Mod is anther animal I thought my 10.5 boosted car was fast until a 5 turn flew down the straight driven by a pro.... I AM NOT READY!!!! so having said that I installed a 6 turn and rspro and will test mod waters next week but 17.5 blinky is were Ill be come trophy day.
04-20-2011, 01:47 PM
#107
Tech Adept
gez...come on guys...we run 1/12th all winter long here in Michigan...17.5 blinky & 13.5 blinky sounds great on our 80' straightaway...if this is too slow then run Mod 1/12th..work on your car setup & driven & your lap times will improve,,
04-20-2011, 01:50 PM
#108
Tech Champion
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To the people mentioning off-road, do they complain in 1/8 scale nitro buggy about stock/modified engines, or the class being too fast? Unless a track has a sportsman or novice class, everyone runs together and lets skill level sort the mains out, right? Why does it have to be any different in on-road?
Man, this is starting to sound like an argument for only having open class, where you run whatever you want and hang on. Want to run 21.5 blinky? Or 4.5 boosted? Fine. Nobody wants to admit that they can't setup their car or can't wheel it. They want to place blame on the equipment, but as stated before, the fast guys will always be fast, and the slow guys will be slow.
Man, this is starting to sound like an argument for only having open class, where you run whatever you want and hang on. Want to run 21.5 blinky? Or 4.5 boosted? Fine. Nobody wants to admit that they can't setup their car or can't wheel it. They want to place blame on the equipment, but as stated before, the fast guys will always be fast, and the slow guys will be slow.
1/8th scale off road is an "open" class so they dont have internet drama. They do have the "sportsman" for beginners/unsponsored drivers. I race off road at crcrc we run either open or 17.5 non boosted it is great because the fast guys cant stand how slow the 17.5 cars go so they have to man up and race mod. 17.5 non boosted is perfect for stock by the way!
It’s not the number of classes in on road....it’s the fact that everything changed at a rapid pace and was out of control. At the same time the price of trying to keep up pushed people away. It wasn’t fun to have to buy new stuff all the time 3 or 4 years ago. Now On-road has just about got it figured out and it’s never been better for racing and people being on a "level" playing field. During that time On-road stopped being FUN period...and people left....it was that simple. Now it’s fun again and simple but people want to blow things out of proportion and make a spectacle out of everything in On road because of the past. The future for on road looks good and it looks to be heading in the right direction. Complaining about things that are not an issue like sponsored racers and make it open are not helping anything. If open or Mod was the answer there would be more than 20-30 people nationally racing that class….and even less regionally. The fact is people want to race 17.5 or there about as it is the largest class at most on-road tracks. Do what works for you at your local track or whatever race you are going to attend and have fun….trying to impose your will on a class will never work and it will just fragment it even more.
04-20-2011, 01:54 PM
#110
100% +1
It’s not the number of classes in on road....it’s the fact that everything changed at a rapid pace and was out of control. At the same time the price of trying to keep up pushed people away. It wasn’t fun to have to buy new stuff all the time 3 or 4 years ago. Now On-road has just about got it figured out and it’s never been better for racing and people being on a "level" playing field. During that time On-road stopped being FUN period...and people left....it was that simple. Now it’s fun again and simple but people want to blow things out of proportion and make a spectacle out of everything in On road because of the past. The future for on road looks good and it looks to be heading in the right direction. Complaining about things that are not an issue like sponsored racers and make it open are not helping anything. If open or Mod was the answer there would be more than 20-30 people nationally racing that class….and even less regionally. The fact is people want to race 17.5 or there about as it is the largest class at most on-road tracks. Do what works for you at your local track or whatever race you are going to attend and have fun….trying to impose your will on a class will never work and it will just fragment it even more.
04-20-2011, 02:04 PM
#111
I actually tried 13.5 blinky this weekend in 12th scale and it wasnt that far off of 13.5 open except for down the straights. I only ran it one time but was only about .2 quicker with boosted than I was blinky. It was a lot more driveable in the infield of the track too. I dont know if I had the gear even close either as it was just a controlled practice run where I didnt have time to change the spur for boosted.
EA
EA
However...I do agree that being able to adjust can be a great equalizer. In 17.5 boosted I finally felt like I was on a pretty even playing field with those around me and the racing was much closer than in the old brushed days.
04-20-2011, 02:06 PM
#112
The big advantage of boost is that it levels the motors, and taking that away will make motors more of a factor.
Much of this stems from the fact that boosted speedos make cars harder to drive. Non-boosted speedos return the throttle feel and make cars easier to drive. If, despite the motor factor, cars are easier to drive, more people will race. Isn't it the case that this is what we want so our tracks can remain open?
Instead of arguing the rights and wrongs of a technical detail of our sport, shouldn't we think about the bigger picture? If, as others have suggested on here, blinky makes cars easier to drive and could get us more racers, isn't that where we should focus our efforts? And if we want to make the transition to the 'shizz' as easy as possible, isn't it the case that we should have 10.5 blinky as Stock, and then people can go boosted for Mod with the same motor?
Much of this stems from the fact that boosted speedos make cars harder to drive. Non-boosted speedos return the throttle feel and make cars easier to drive. If, despite the motor factor, cars are easier to drive, more people will race. Isn't it the case that this is what we want so our tracks can remain open?
Instead of arguing the rights and wrongs of a technical detail of our sport, shouldn't we think about the bigger picture? If, as others have suggested on here, blinky makes cars easier to drive and could get us more racers, isn't that where we should focus our efforts? And if we want to make the transition to the 'shizz' as easy as possible, isn't it the case that we should have 10.5 blinky as Stock, and then people can go boosted for Mod with the same motor?
04-20-2011, 02:13 PM
#113
That was me driving that car.Same motor passed at the ROAR carpet Nats.
When trinity locked timing motor comes out then it will even out the playing field but until then ramping or non-ramping you can still manipulate the motor. I run at Norcal Hobbies this past weekend just playing around with non-ramping class and I'm not kidding their is a damn 17.5 motor that was stupid fast they did something on that damn motor that's for sure..
That's why I like MOD I know if I get beat I know for sure the other driver is better than me it's not because he has a better motor and some vodoo software that only team driver have access lol..
That's why I like MOD I know if I get beat I know for sure the other driver is better than me it's not because he has a better motor and some vodoo software that only team driver have access lol..
04-20-2011, 02:17 PM
#114
It’s not the number of classes in on road....it’s the fact that everything changed at a rapid pace and was out of control. At the same time the price of trying to keep up pushed people away. It wasn’t fun to have to buy new stuff all the time 3 or 4 years ago. Now On-road has just about got it figured out and it’s never been better for racing and people being on a "level" playing field. During that time On-road stopped being FUN period...and people left....it was that simple. Now it’s fun again and simple but people want to blow things out of proportion and make a spectacle out of everything in On road because of the past. The future for on road looks good and it looks to be heading in the right direction. Complaining about things that are not an issue like sponsored racers and make it open are not helping anything. If open or Mod was the answer there would be more than 20-30 people nationally racing that class….and even less regionally. The fact is people want to race 17.5 or there about as it is the largest class at most on-road tracks. Do what works for you at your local track or whatever race you are going to attend and have fun….trying to impose your will on a class will never work and it will just fragment it even more.
ESCs made it hard to keep people in on road. Nobody like throwing good money after bad. I went GTB-TC Spec-SPX-Tekin, among others, trying to stay on pace. Not everybody will stand for that. Simplicity will keep more racers around.
And for the record, I melted way more motors racing open 17.5 and 13.5 than I ever did with non timing speedos.
04-20-2011, 02:31 PM
#115
Whether a class feels too slow or too fast is very much track specific. 17.5 blinky on an 80' track feels about right...but try that on a 100' track or a 120' track and it is going to start feeling slow. Likewise on a track with good grip vs one with less grip...or one with wide lanes vs one with narrow lanes. This is where the difficulty is in determining what should be the specifications for what is classified as "stock" nationally or even internationally.
04-20-2011, 02:32 PM
#116
The guys at Hobbytown get a discount and I KNOW they belong in stock
I think if you are good enough for a guy from Top or Corally to come up to you and offer you a ride you probably belong in Modified and reserve the unbearably slow 17.5 non boosted for an unsponsored guy.
I think if you are good enough for a guy from Top or Corally to come up to you and offer you a ride you probably belong in Modified and reserve the unbearably slow 17.5 non boosted for an unsponsored guy.oh and btw, 17.5 unboosted. Isn't to slow, for me its about the "RACE" not the "speed"
04-20-2011, 02:38 PM
#117
Maybe one size does not fit everyone. RC is very broad and the needs of some classes are completely different than the needs of others. Isn’t it nice to have choices and not try to cram everyone in the same box. Boost definitely has its place, it is just not the answer for all classes or all people.
Hard to deny the value of being able to run NT stock and a boosted class with the same equipment. At many races people are driving the same car in 2 classes… that has to be good for entries, participation and exposing people to different speeds to find the challenge level they need to stay interested. The worst thing we can do is make a set of very narrow rules due the unique problems in one segment of RC racing and try to apply that to all of RC racing.
Also hard to find many that will argue that boosted setups run hotter than NT. You know I draw the line when misleading or false information is presented by those that represent themselves as leadership for the rest of us.
Regardless of if you think boost killed racing or saved it, there is no downside to having the option.
Tekin Prez
Hard to deny the value of being able to run NT stock and a boosted class with the same equipment. At many races people are driving the same car in 2 classes… that has to be good for entries, participation and exposing people to different speeds to find the challenge level they need to stay interested. The worst thing we can do is make a set of very narrow rules due the unique problems in one segment of RC racing and try to apply that to all of RC racing.
Also hard to find many that will argue that boosted setups run hotter than NT. You know I draw the line when misleading or false information is presented by those that represent themselves as leadership for the rest of us.
Regardless of if you think boost killed racing or saved it, there is no downside to having the option.
Tekin Prez
04-20-2011, 02:38 PM
#118
Tech Addict
Ummm....1/8th scale off-road has a motor limit(.21)...it’s not an "OPEN" class like you are saying so your whole argument about it being “open” is tossed in the trash. If it really was open what’s to stop someone from going to a .28 or .31 motor??? If it was "open" then I bet people would be talking about it....but it’s not…its limited.
04-20-2011, 02:40 PM
#119
If you are a noob and you enter the stock class expecting to be competetive from the beginning then you are living in a fantasy world.
Novice class has been and is for the beginer NOT stock class.Stock class is where us independents and unsponsered drivers perfect our skills to try and be pro drivers.Limiting the stock class shouldn't be about running the slowest set up that there is.Blinky mode should not be a rule for stock.
How many of you racing today remember the years of battery zappers,computerized motor dyno's,cell matchers, and the like.
The cost hasn't changed just the technology.The Genie is out of the bottle and to try and put in back in WILL kill the hobby more than adapting to it.
Novice class has been and is for the beginer NOT stock class.Stock class is where us independents and unsponsered drivers perfect our skills to try and be pro drivers.Limiting the stock class shouldn't be about running the slowest set up that there is.Blinky mode should not be a rule for stock.
How many of you racing today remember the years of battery zappers,computerized motor dyno's,cell matchers, and the like.
The cost hasn't changed just the technology.The Genie is out of the bottle and to try and put in back in WILL kill the hobby more than adapting to it.
04-20-2011, 02:43 PM
#120
Tech Addict
I think the main problem here, is that some tracks are big enough to handle both 17.5T boosted and modified, and other tracks are not, as they are too small and because of that, 17.5T boosted run the same laptimes.
So it is really hard to make a general ruleset that will fit every track - it is impossible. That is why I suggested the 3 classes (mod, 17.5T boosted, 17.5T blinky). You can fit every track with these 3 classes, and no-one says that you need to have all 3 classes at your local track, if it doesn't fit your track.
My hometrack would, if these classes were the ones to be picked, only race mod and blinky, because boosted is to fast at our track. But our last national race were at a bigger track, where boosted had a perfect speed.
And, having blinky and boosted use the same motor, and with speedoes that can run both blinky and boosted, it is cheap to switch because classes.
So it is really hard to make a general ruleset that will fit every track - it is impossible. That is why I suggested the 3 classes (mod, 17.5T boosted, 17.5T blinky). You can fit every track with these 3 classes, and no-one says that you need to have all 3 classes at your local track, if it doesn't fit your track.
My hometrack would, if these classes were the ones to be picked, only race mod and blinky, because boosted is to fast at our track. But our last national race were at a bigger track, where boosted had a perfect speed.
And, having blinky and boosted use the same motor, and with speedoes that can run both blinky and boosted, it is cheap to switch because classes.