R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-11-2012, 05:21 PM   #751
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 2,512
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Roll centers 3a
1mm offset ff and fr
0mm offset rf
.5mm offset rr for 3* toe
Front camber link is 1, silver +1mm
Rear camber link is 3a, silver +2mm
Front shocks 3b, rear 2b
14.5f/13.5r, ae 50f/40r, reflex pistons and schui bladders.

The car worked better after putting the shocks in 2b rear and going to 14.5f/13.5r. I think my biggest issue right now (besides my driving) is tires. I can't seem to get them prepped consistently. I either seem to get too much traction and have to pussy foot around traction roll, or I don't get enough traction.

-Mike
grippgoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2012, 07:28 AM   #752
Tech Apprentice
 
d2dap636's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Maryland
Posts: 87
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default bladders and pistons

Does anyone know when the bladders and pistons will be back in stock?
__________________
Shut the door Brian, you're letting out all the stink! E-Revo Brushless Edition, Kyosho Inferno VE race spec, Losi Speed nt, Jammin SCRT 10, Team Associated TC3 VTA, Team Associated FT TC6
d2dap636 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2012, 08:40 AM   #753
Tech Elite
 
CristianTabush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,676
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Bladders should be here in like 2 days.

As for the pistons, maybe another 2-3 weeks. They are currently being made at the factory. I should have a few sets left, so if you need them, you can email me at the store and I'll put a set in stock for you.

Thanks!
__________________
REFLEX RACING/ RSD/ GIZMO RACING USA/ HOBBYWING/ AXON/ QTEQ/ TEAM PRIME
CristianTabush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2012, 08:42 AM   #754
Tech Elite
 
CristianTabush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,676
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Grip, how much grip does your track have?

As for oil, what's in the shocks?
__________________
REFLEX RACING/ RSD/ GIZMO RACING USA/ HOBBYWING/ AXON/ QTEQ/ TEAM PRIME
CristianTabush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2012, 05:21 PM   #755
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 2,512
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by grippgoat View Post
Roll centers 3a
1mm offset ff and fr
0mm offset rf
.5mm offset rr for 3* toe
Front camber link is 1, silver +1mm
Rear camber link is 3a, silver +2mm
Front shocks 3b, rear 2b
14.5f/13.5r, ae 50f/40r, reflex pistons and schui bladders.

The car worked better after putting the shocks in 2b rear and going to 14.5f/13.5r. I think my biggest issue right now (besides my driving) is tires. I can't seem to get them prepped consistently. I either seem to get too much traction and have to pussy foot around traction roll, or I don't get enough traction.

-Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by CristianTabush View Post
Grip, how much grip does your track have?

As for oil, what's in the shocks?
Carpet. Grip ranges from medium (first round on a club night) to high (finals on a club night) to very high (second day of our 2-day event this weekend). It's also got some bumps, some tape seams, and the grip falls off quite a bit outside the groove.

The shocks are currently filled with associated 50wt front and 40wt rear.

Also, I forgot to mention that I'm running a gear diff in front with 500k Traxxas oil. And I ran 2 degrees camber front and rear. And I have 1mm wheelbase spacer in front of the front arm, and 1mm in front of the rear arm (trying to move weight a bit backward from the kit setup). Battery is in the rear position. Corner weights are right around 325g on all four corners. The front of the car is maybe 10g heavier overall than the rear. Diff height is in the kit position.

-Mike
grippgoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2012, 06:17 PM   #756
Tech Master
 
cwoods34's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Indy-freakin'-ana
Posts: 1,152
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by grippgoat View Post
Roll centers 3a
1mm offset ff and fr
0mm offset rf
.5mm offset rr for 3* toe
Front camber link is 1, silver +1mm
Rear camber link is 3a, silver +2mm
Front shocks 3b, rear 2b
14.5f/13.5r, ae 50f/40r, reflex pistons and schui bladders.

The car worked better after putting the shocks in 2b rear and going to 14.5f/13.5r. I think my biggest issue right now (besides my driving) is tires. I can't seem to get them prepped consistently. I either seem to get too much traction and have to pussy foot around traction roll, or I don't get enough traction.

-Mike
What about swaybars? I almost always run silver front/black rear. You can also run .5-1* of front camber, so when the car is rotating the tires actually lose a bit of traction because you diminish the contact patch.
__________________
Stop holding bitterness deep in your bum soul.
cwoods34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2012, 07:50 PM   #757
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 2,512
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwoods34 View Post
What about swaybars? I almost always run silver front/black rear. You can also run .5-1* of front camber, so when the car is rotating the tires actually lose a bit of traction because you diminish the contact patch.
It's a TC6.1. Running yellow (1.1mm?) front and white (0.9mm?) rear. That's the kit setting, and I haven't messed with it.

Every time I've ever tried less camber, especially in front, it just seems to result in a complete loss of corner speed. :/

I probably shouldn't cruft up Christian's thread with more of this. I think I'm almost there on spring / damper setup, and I don't think it's my biggest problem at the moment.

-Mike
grippgoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2012, 08:13 PM   #758
Tech Elite
 
CristianTabush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,676
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Ok, I am no expert in carpet, but I have enough experience to give you some pointers on how I get to my set-up point.

1.Get your oil right.
How do I get there? I basically use oil for 2 things:
a.In the front I use it for responsiveness. If the car dives way too hard I go up, if it does not react quick enough initially, I go down. 50 sounds close, don't be afraid to try 47.5 or 45 just to see what the feel is like. I would start at 45.
b.In the rear I use it to control chatter. I basically would start with like 32.5 wt and I would go up until the rear does not chatter when coming off the fastest decreasing radius corners, like for example after the sweeper.

I like running oil as light as I can get away with. I feel it provides more consistent traction and it handles bumps best.

2.After the oil I mess with Toe in at the rear. Is the car sliding? Go up. Does it feel good? GO DOWN! it might just feel much better with less toe and yield faster laps.

3.Springs: Start at 15.5/ 13.5. Adjust from there. Springs are very driver dependent. To a point. If the car feels right, go up to a 14.5 spring in the rear, it might just be better. If the combo of 15.5/14.5 feels good, try 16.5/15.5, it might just be better.

4.Ackerman: So important! If it's too aggressive and over-steering, use a less aggressive setting (like A), usually I stick to the B setting on Carpet. Ackerman is such a useful tool.

5.Camber, just make sure your tires are wearing flat. Typically 1-1.5 degrees get the job done.

6.Roll Centers. Start at 0B or 3A all around. Stick to one and tune from that roll center.

7.width: +2mm FF an FR and then +2RF and RR whatever you need to find your toe.

Once you get your car right you can start trying out strange settings like anti-dive or higher roll centers in the rear, however, you got to get your balance right before you try the smaller, less significant adjustments.
__________________
REFLEX RACING/ RSD/ GIZMO RACING USA/ HOBBYWING/ AXON/ QTEQ/ TEAM PRIME
CristianTabush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2012, 11:05 AM   #759
Tech Elite
 
CristianTabush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,676
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Bladders are back in stock!
__________________
REFLEX RACING/ RSD/ GIZMO RACING USA/ HOBBYWING/ AXON/ QTEQ/ TEAM PRIME
CristianTabush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2012, 07:33 PM   #760
Tech Addict
 
dorkmissle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 583
Trader Rating: 29 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by grippgoat View Post
It's a TC6.1. Running yellow (1.1mm?) front and white (0.9mm?) rear. That's the kit setting, and I haven't messed with it.

Every time I've ever tried less camber, especially in front, it just seems to result in a complete loss of corner speed. :/

I probably shouldn't cruft up Christian's thread with more of this. I think I'm almost there on spring / damper setup, and I don't think it's my biggest problem at the moment.

-Mike
What's your droop?

Typical is 7 front, 6 rear on associated gage. Or 6 and 5....

Camber is ultra sensitive on carpet, 0.5 degree makes a difference. Also your gear diff oil can effect your rotating. 30wt for associated diffs, 800-1000 for spec-r....don't ask me why its different, it just is. too thick and you won't get turn in. you could take some out some rear toe and lighten up gear diff oil.....
dorkmissle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2012, 08:01 PM   #761
Tech Regular
 
tr1kstanc3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 357
Trader Rating: 18 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CristianTabush View Post
Ok, I am no expert in carpet, but I have enough experience to give you some pointers on how I get to my set-up point.

1.Get your oil right.
How do I get there? I basically use oil for 2 things:
a.In the front I use it for responsiveness. If the car dives way too hard I go up, if it does not react quick enough initially, I go down. 50 sounds close, don't be afraid to try 47.5 or 45 just to see what the feel is like. I would start at 45.
b.In the rear I use it to control chatter. I basically would start with like 32.5 wt and I would go up until the rear does not chatter when coming off the fastest decreasing radius corners, like for example after the sweeper.

I like running oil as light as I can get away with. I feel it provides more consistent traction and it handles bumps best.

2.After the oil I mess with Toe in at the rear. Is the car sliding? Go up. Does it feel good? GO DOWN! it might just feel much better with less toe and yield faster laps.

3.Springs: Start at 15.5/ 13.5. Adjust from there. Springs are very driver dependent. To a point. If the car feels right, go up to a 14.5 spring in the rear, it might just be better. If the combo of 15.5/14.5 feels good, try 16.5/15.5, it might just be better.

4.Ackerman: So important! If it's too aggressive and over-steering, use a less aggressive setting (like A), usually I stick to the B setting on Carpet. Ackerman is such a useful tool.

5.Camber, just make sure your tires are wearing flat. Typically 1-1.5 degrees get the job done.

6.Roll Centers. Start at 0B or 3A all around. Stick to one and tune from that roll center.

7.width: +2mm FF an FR and then +2RF and RR whatever you need to find your toe.

Once you get your car right you can start trying out strange settings like anti-dive or higher roll centers in the rear, however, you got to get your balance right before you try the smaller, less significant adjustments.
Great post! How do you tune the sway bars?
__________________
☆ Joe Tran ☆
tr1kstanc3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2012, 08:18 PM   #762
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 2,512
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CristianTabush View Post
Ok, I am no expert in carpet, but I have enough experience to give you some pointers on how I get to my set-up point.

1.Get your oil right.
How do I get there? I basically use oil for 2 things:
a.In the front I use it for responsiveness. If the car dives way too hard I go up, if it does not react quick enough initially, I go down. 50 sounds close, don't be afraid to try 47.5 or 45 just to see what the feel is like. I would start at 45.
b.In the rear I use it to control chatter. I basically would start with like 32.5 wt and I would go up until the rear does not chatter when coming off the fastest decreasing radius corners, like for example after the sweeper.

I like running oil as light as I can get away with. I feel it provides more consistent traction and it handles bumps best.
Perhaps one of the most useful bits of setup advice I've ever gotten. The really, really fast guy at my track, who's running a TC6.1, is running 45/40 with RSD pistons and bladders.

Quote:
2.After the oil I mess with Toe in at the rear. Is the car sliding? Go up. Does it feel good? GO DOWN! it might just feel much better with less toe and yield faster laps.
I tried toe already. 3.0 is what I've run for 2 years in Stock TC on two different cars, and I've never found success with less. I re-tried 2.5 this weekend, and it was a travesty. All traction completely vanished. Lap times were like a second slower. The really really fast guy runs 2.75 and makes it work, but I don't think I've got the wheel skills for that yet.

Quote:
3.Springs: Start at 15.5/ 13.5. Adjust from there. Springs are very driver dependent. To a point. If the car feels right, go up to a 14.5 spring in the rear, it might just be better. If the combo of 15.5/14.5 feels good, try 16.5/15.5, it might just be better.
Going from 14.5/12.5 to 14.5/13.5, the balance improved. So I think I'm going to jump straight to 15.5/14.5.

Quote:
4.Ackerman: So important! If it's too aggressive and over-steering, use a less aggressive setting (like A), usually I stick to the B setting on Carpet. Ackerman is such a useful tool.
I've never seen anything other than 7B ackerman and 2B steering link on a 6.1 setup, so I just assumed that was a given.

Quote:
5.Camber, just make sure your tires are wearing flat. Typically 1-1.5 degrees get the job done.
Really flat, or mostly flat? I've always settled on -2 degrees. I usually get the groove of death on the inside edge, but any time I've gone under -2 degrees, I lose all my cornering grip. :/

Quote:
6.Roll Centers. Start at 0B or 3A all around. Stick to one and tune from that roll center.
I'm at 3A. I didn't really try 0B much. Would 0B or 3A tend to be easier to drive overall?

Quote:
7.width: +2mm FF an FR and then +2RF and RR whatever you need to find your toe.
Is that with or without the offset mounts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CristianTabush View Post
Bladders are back in stock!
Ordered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dorkmissle View Post
What's your droop?

Typical is 7 front, 6 rear on associated gage. Or 6 and 5....

Camber is ultra sensitive on carpet, 0.5 degree makes a difference. Also your gear diff oil can effect your rotating. 30wt for associated diffs, 800-1000 for spec-r....don't ask me why its different, it just is. too thick and you won't get turn in. you could take some out some rear toe and lighten up gear diff oil.....
I've been running 6f 5r in my 3-racing gauge, measured at the flat edge of the arm under the screw. Over the summer on asphalt with my Schumacher, I built up a tendency to run quite a bit of droop, because it made the car easier to drive, and helped it take a nice set in the corners. But this year on the carpet, if I have too much droop in front (on either the Schui or the tc6.1) the front end diffs-out really, really badly, to the point where the front-end will jerk quite violently. At 6f/5r the car has been quite smooth as I get onto the power, so I've just left it at that. Maybe I don't have enough droop, and that's making it feel a little skatey and inconsistent like the tires aren't working? Maybe I should mess with the droop some more to find the most I can run without diffing out really badly, or just go back to the spool.

I wish I had a better droop gauge that did .5mm increments. I have a Schui gauge that does, but it's too long, and the tip of it tends to hit the chassis. Maybe I should take a hacksaw to it.

EDIT: I've been running the rear diff with the kit oil, which I think was like 40wt? Anyway, it felt like it was getting freer and freer, and so I wanted to try a little heavier. I put in 50wt, and it felt freer than before I refilled it. So I put in 80wt, and it still feels really free. *shrug* Not sure what's up with that, but I tend to like the rear diff a little thicker, as it seems to counteract a bit of the corner entry rotation and on-power push from the front gear diff.

-Mike

Last edited by grippgoat; 03-13-2012 at 09:51 PM.
grippgoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2012, 05:40 AM   #763
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 226
Default

cristian, i'm waitting for the RSD AE TC6 2.5MM CARBON REAR BUMPER and RSD TC6/AE 10MM MACHINED DELRIN PISTON (1.0,1.0,1.5MM), may i know when will it be in stock?
__________________
~Team Associated AE TC6~ Disable
~Team Associated AE TC6.1~ SOLD
~Team Associated AE TC6.1WC~ Retire
Switching to YOKOMO ~Yokomo BD7~
**Swan Radio Control Club (SRCC)**
icefish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012, 10:23 AM   #764
Tech Addict
 
Geberit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 744
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CristianTabush View Post
Well, all I can say it is that is in the works. We are trying a few different vendors to get them cut. I have tried to get them cut stateside, but I have not been very successful in getting a response from US-based CF shops.

Right now I am waiting on a quote from an overseas vendor. We will be sourcing the material with American CF, so at least we'll have quality stuff.

The chassis is super narrow, around 82mm. It uses 416 bell cranks and the battery is moved back about 2mm. We have also tried to equalize flex L to R as much as possible. The chassis sort of looks like a cross between the Serpent LE chassis and a Yokomo BD-5.

Hopefully we'll have some spy pics within 2-3 weeks.
Hi Cristian,

does it make any difference if you cut the Chassis to gain flex on the right spots? Let's say like this: http://zeppinracing.com/portfolio-vi...2-1mm-for-tc6/

I think the position of the bulkheads, motor mount, central shaft mount has a dramatic influence on chassis flex and cutting it like that will not bring a great effect like one would wish to ... just look the position of those on a TRF417X or BD5.

Regards, G
Geberit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012, 10:55 AM   #765
Tech Elite
 
CristianTabush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,676
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Icefish, Bumpers are still going to be a while, the pistons will be in at the end of the week,.

The 0 should make the car harder to roll over the 3A. However, I felt like the car was smoother with it. But all roll centers can be made to work.

You want the tires to have maximum contact patch at all times. Different link positions and link lengths take different amounts of camber. You want to essentially maximize your tire contact patch. You can use a silver paint pen and run a line across you tires to test for this. Many times different corners take different amounts of camber.

Joe, I hardly ever mess with swaybars. On asphalt I almost always stay thin all around. If grip is high I go to a harder one in the front to make the car easier to drive.

Gebereit, I am not sure I understand your question/ comment. Main feature of our chassis is the ability of having dual bell cranks. We have isolated flex at the bulkheads by making it narrower at those points. The chassis is a bit different than the zeppin one though. Much more of a transformation of the car. It also moves the battery position which changes the behavior of the car. Extra flex is a feature, but not the only one.
__________________
REFLEX RACING/ RSD/ GIZMO RACING USA/ HOBBYWING/ AXON/ QTEQ/ TEAM PRIME
CristianTabush is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 05:46 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0