R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-24-2012, 03:20 PM   #1501
Tech Regular
 
bradshawkyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 279
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default Setup Questions

Christian,

I ran my RSD6 for the first time last week and was blown away by how consistent the car was in the corners. I'm pretty new to 17.5 TC, but have more time under my belt in VTA, and with the new chassis I set personal best times all night long. I'm using Mike Gee's setup from the RSD6 info page on an otherwise standard TC6.1 with Reflex bladders + pistons and have a couple questions if you don't mind:

1) The dual bellcrank system doesn't seem to have nearly as much throw as the single bellcrank - is there any way to increase that? I maxed out the throw in my radio and it's decent, but would like to get more mechanical travel if possible. If not more travel, then I assume the next step would be to add shims on the bellcranks to decrease ackerman, right?

2) While the car rotates nicely and is extremely predictable in the corners, when I come off a right-hander onto the straight it almost always walks toward the right side of the track. It's a smooth arc tat never seems to get worse, but the only ways to correct it are to turn-in to the slide or let off for a second to settle the car. It feels like the rear end breaks loose a tiny bit and I'm wondering of the 3.5 degrees of rear toe is creating too much slip angle. Any thoughts on how to calm it down and run straight? I have checked for tweak, BTW and everything seems straight.

Thanks,
-Kyle
__________________
Seattle RC Racers / Hangar 30 / Awesomatix
"Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you." - Jeremy Clarkson
bradshawkyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2012, 03:31 PM   #1502
Tech Champion
 
geeunit1014's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The dirty burnie
Posts: 5,393
Trader Rating: 12 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradshawkyle View Post
Christian,

I ran my RSD6 for the first time last week and was blown away by how consistent the car was in the corners. I'm pretty new to 17.5 TC, but have more time under my belt in VTA, and with the new chassis I set personal best times all night long. I'm using Mike Gee's setup from the RSD6 info page on an otherwise standard TC6.1 with Reflex bladders + pistons and have a couple questions if you don't mind:

1) The dual bellcrank system doesn't seem to have nearly as much throw as the single bellcrank - is there any way to increase that? I maxed out the throw in my radio and it's decent, but would like to get more mechanical travel if possible. If not more travel, then I assume the next step would be to add shims on the bellcranks to decrease ackerman, right?

2) While the car rotates nicely and is extremely predictable in the corners, when I come off a right-hander onto the straight it almost always walks toward the right side of the track. It's a smooth arc tat never seems to get worse, but the only ways to correct it are to turn-in to the slide or let off for a second to settle the car. It feels like the rear end breaks loose a tiny bit and I'm wondering of the 3.5 degrees of rear toe is creating too much slip angle. Any thoughts on how to calm it down and run straight? I have checked for tweak, BTW and everything seems straight.

Thanks,
-Kyle
1) You should be able to achieve the same amount of throw with the DBC. Which servo saver are you using? If it is too short you wont get enough travel. Im using a kimbrough mid size in the tall holes (the upper outer ones), and im at ~90% d/r (100% epas) on a futaba tx to get 5ft turning circles

2) 3.5 rear toe is more stable than 3, trust me on that If you want to make the car a little more stable on exit, add anti dive to the front (change the rear front blocks to 0B). I would also double check your front toe on setup gauges just to be sure.
__________________
Mike Gee

Awesomatix USA/Pyscho Cells Racing/LRP/Sweep Racing/RSD/Middle River Hobbies/Johns Mobile Raceway/TQ Wire/Avid
geeunit1014 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2012, 04:24 PM   #1503
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 2,512
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Kyle,

3.5 is an awful lot of toe-in for 17.5 at the Hangar. I'd drop to 3.0 and go from there. Reducing the rear toe-in will lengthen the rear wheelbase just a touch, shifting a wee bit of weight forward. I've definitely had moments where I took my tail-happy scale spec car, and removed .5* of rear toe only to find that it planted the back end and made the car way better to drive.

Also, if you're feeling like you don't have enough steering throw, it may actually be that your car is really pushy and you're trying to get around that by cranking the steering.

-Mike
grippgoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2012, 05:40 PM   #1504
Tech Regular
 
bradshawkyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 279
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeunit1014 View Post
1) You should be able to achieve the same amount of throw with the DBC. Which servo saver are you using? If it is too short you wont get enough travel. Im using a kimbrough mid size in the tall holes (the upper outer ones), and im at ~90% d/r (100% epas) on a futaba tx to get 5ft turning circles
Son of a biscuit! I just realized I have an itty bitty one on the car. OK, that makes perfect sense. I need to get a bigger one, thanks for the help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grippgoat View Post
3.5 is an awful lot of toe-in for 17.5 at the Hangar. I'd drop to 3.0 and go from there. Reducing the rear toe-in will lengthen the rear wheelbase just a touch, shifting a wee bit of weight forward. I've definitely had moments where I took my tail-happy scale spec car, and removed .5* of rear toe only to find that it planted the back end and made the car way better to drive.

Also, if you're feeling like you don't have enough steering throw, it may actually be that your car is really pushy and you're trying to get around that by cranking the steering.

-Mike
Thanks, Mike. The car doesn't seem to have any understeer issues, I measured the throw on my setup station and when compared to my Scale Spec car it's getting 15 degrees at 150% in the radio versius 17 in my Scale Spec car at 75%. Other Mike is right, I need a bigger servo saver. <facepalm>

The stability issue is definitely a butthole-puckering experience, one I'd like to eliminate. Currently I find myself lifting to settle the car when others are nearby so I don't wander and take them out.
__________________
Seattle RC Racers / Hangar 30 / Awesomatix
"Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you." - Jeremy Clarkson
bradshawkyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2012, 06:08 PM   #1505
Tech Elite
 
CristianTabush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,674
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Kyle, which car is unstable the TC6.1 or the RSD6?

Thanks Mikes for jumping in...
__________________
REFLEX RACING/ RSD/ GIZMO RACING USA/ HOBBYWING/ AXON/ QTEQ/ TEAM PRIME
CristianTabush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2012, 07:20 PM   #1506
Tech Champion
 
geeunit1014's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The dirty burnie
Posts: 5,393
Trader Rating: 12 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradshawkyle View Post
Son of a biscuit! I just realized I have an itty bitty one on the car. OK, that makes perfect sense. I need to get a bigger one, thanks for the help.



Thanks, Mike. The car doesn't seem to have any understeer issues, I measured the throw on my setup station and when compared to my Scale Spec car it's getting 15 degrees at 150% in the radio versius 17 in my Scale Spec car at 75%. Other Mike is right, I need a bigger servo saver. <facepalm>

The stability issue is definitely a butthole-puckering experience, one I'd like to eliminate. Currently I find myself lifting to settle the car when others are nearby so I don't wander and take them out.
I would suggest adding the front antidive, and you may also want to try a RSD red spring up front. Ive been wanting to try that for a while, and hopefully will this weekend.
__________________
Mike Gee

Awesomatix USA/Pyscho Cells Racing/LRP/Sweep Racing/RSD/Middle River Hobbies/Johns Mobile Raceway/TQ Wire/Avid
geeunit1014 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2012, 11:15 PM   #1507
Tech Regular
 
bradshawkyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 279
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CristianTabush View Post
Kyle, which car is unstable the TC6.1 or the RSD6?

Thanks Mikes for jumping in...
Hi Christian, thanks for the help. The RSD6 is the one giving me a heart attack while running down the straight. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
__________________
Seattle RC Racers / Hangar 30 / Awesomatix
"Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you." - Jeremy Clarkson
bradshawkyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2012, 11:28 PM   #1508
Tech Elite
 
CristianTabush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,674
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

You are running on carpet correct?

If the car is not going straight, you have an alignment issue somewhere.

Try securing the servo in place with some servo tape or shoe goo additional to the servo hold down. On carpet, I think using shoe goo is the way to go. It helps the car track more straight.

Measure your steering links and make sure they are the same length. Also, make sure none of your bulkheads are slightly misaligned. This can happen, and it is impossible to tell with the blind eye. So just loosen everything up and re-set it.

Also, take a look at the set-up I have from the Texas EOS rd. 3. I worked on getting a car that was extremely neutral. Mike's set-ups tend to be pushy going in and then have a lot of steering and rotation. Maybe all the rotation is causing the car to be hard to drive coming on to the straight. I know that when my shocks are standing up too much, I have a hard time keeping the car going straight.

Lastly, check your rear diff, your blades, and your tweak on a tweak station. Also check for breaks or fissures on your caster blocks.
__________________
REFLEX RACING/ RSD/ GIZMO RACING USA/ HOBBYWING/ AXON/ QTEQ/ TEAM PRIME
CristianTabush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 06:40 AM   #1509
Tech Master
 
idbdoug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Above FltLevel300
Posts: 1,454
Trader Rating: 33 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CristianTabush View Post
You are running on carpet correct?

If the car is not going straight, you have an alignment issue somewhere.

Try securing the servo in place with some servo tape or shoe goo additional to the servo hold down. On carpet, I think using shoe goo is the way to go. It helps the car track more straight.

Measure your steering links and make sure they are the same length. Also, make sure none of your bulkheads are slightly misaligned. This can happen, and it is impossible to tell with the blind eye. So just loosen everything up and re-set it.

Also, take a look at the set-up I have from the Texas EOS rd. 3. I worked on getting a car that was extremely neutral. Mike's set-ups tend to be pushy going in and then have a lot of steering and rotation. Maybe all the rotation is causing the car to be hard to drive coming on to the straight. I know that when my shocks are standing up too much, I have a hard time keeping the car going straight.



Lastly, check your rear diff, your blades, and your tweak on a tweak station. Also check for breaks or fissures on your caster blocks.

At the recent Texas EOS rd 3 race, my car was also twitching coming onto the straight out of the corner but very goog everywhere else. Ralph Burch said I was running the car too flat, so I increased the rise front and rear by .5mm and the car was awesome. I run a different brand but I would think trying the increase in rise on both ends would apply
idbdoug
idbdoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 07:26 AM   #1510
Tech Elite
 
CristianTabush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,674
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Very true Doug. Thanks for the help. I was running 6f/5r droop which is like 2mm of rise in the front and 3mm in the rear.
__________________
REFLEX RACING/ RSD/ GIZMO RACING USA/ HOBBYWING/ AXON/ QTEQ/ TEAM PRIME
CristianTabush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 09:44 AM   #1511
Tech Apprentice
 
wiggindude6969's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Houston
Posts: 94
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CristianTabush View Post
Very true Doug. Thanks for the help. I was running 6f/5r droop which is like 2mm of rise in the front and 3mm in the rear.
My set up at the EOS Rnd 3 was the same as everyone else, except I was running Red/Blue Springs, 2.5 Deg Toe In/Rear. Same droop 6/5 ride height 5.5R/5F. My car was dialed, but I am just getting back into RC.. I actually had to Dial out Steering. (i run my front hubs upside down, seems to work better for me... and i like the car to push some..)

I got my car about 5-6 weeks ago.. Cristian helped me set the car up for M&M in Houston (ashpault ). The only thing i changed to go to Mikes in Dallas was the Springs. RSD6 is the best car i have ever owned... hands down!

I changed to the longer servo horn about 1 week after i go the car and it added more steering.. Just make sure you check screws that hold the servo! If you hit somthing hard... they can come loose and this will cause the car to veer like your talking about. I had this happedn in a qualifier in Dallas.. Adding servo tape under the servo will help keep the servo stay in place. The other thing i noticed is if they apply some type of traction adative to the track and you get half the car out of the line... tire build up on one side of the car will cause this...

my 2 cents.. Good Luck..
__________________
F104v2 - RSD/TC6.1 - CRCXTi - AE B6
wiggindude6969 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 02:21 PM   #1512
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 2,512
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradshawkyle View Post
Hi Christian, thanks for the help. The RSD6 is the one giving me a heart attack while running down the straight. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
I mis-read your initial post. I thought you were talking about coming off the straight, not onto it.

Is the problem that the car doesn't drive straight when you're on throttle? Or is the problem that the car wants to keep turning when you're getting onto the straight? Or is it that the back end is kicking out when you get on the power?

If the problem is that the car just doesn't drive straight on power, it's most likely a tweak issue (uneven droop, something binding, bent hinge pin, uneven spring preload, uneven static weight balance, sticky bearings, etc). Small amounts of droop like the setup you linked can definitely exacerbate a tweak issue.

If the problem is that the car doesn't want to stop turning, the large amount of servo travel you're using could be contributing. I've got some other ideas we can check at the track, too.

If the problem is the rear end kicking out, I'd start by checking the rear diff to see how tight/loose it is. EDIT: Also belt tension. If the rear belt is tight and the front is loose, that can make the back end kick a bit when you jump on power.

Are you running a spool or gear diff in the front?

Anyway, I'm betting your issue is that something in the setup / prep is cranked to 11, possibly by accident, and you just need to find it. My entire second season of racing was spent largely learning about all the ways I can screw up a setup, and how to not make those mistakes so that I can put a car that will handle the same way down on the track every round.

-Mike
grippgoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 03:28 PM   #1513
Tech Champion
 
snoopyrc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tunnel Hill GA
Posts: 5,043
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Christian I want to thank you for supporting the USVTA Southern Nationals in Nashville TN. I was the lucky recipient of your contribution. I have been following this thread and it looks like I will be among the RSD drivers very soon.
__________________
www.battlefieldraceway.com Racing videos at http://www.youtube.com/snoopyrc
snoopyrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 05:08 PM   #1514
Tech Regular
 
bradshawkyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 279
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Very helpful, fellas, thanks so much. I have a laundary list of items to check and possibly change, I'll post back when I figure out the cause.
__________________
Seattle RC Racers / Hangar 30 / Awesomatix
"Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you." - Jeremy Clarkson
bradshawkyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 05:42 PM   #1515
Tech Elite
 
CristianTabush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,674
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopyrc View Post
Christian I want to thank you for supporting the USVTA Southern Nationals in Nashville TN. I was the lucky recipient of your contribution. I have been following this thread and it looks like I will be among the RSD drivers very soon.
Awesome! Welcome to the club. If you have any questions, post away!
__________________
REFLEX RACING/ RSD/ GIZMO RACING USA/ HOBBYWING/ AXON/ QTEQ/ TEAM PRIME
CristianTabush is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 11:40 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0