Faster corner speed like pro
05-28-2002, 10:04 AM
#151
Originally posted by mcrisp
4) Raise the rear roll center by and/or lower the front roll center.
5) shorten the front suspensions upper link to get more camber change in the corner and/or lengthen the rear suspension upper link to get less camber change in the corner.
4) Raise the rear roll center by and/or lower the front roll center.
5) shorten the front suspensions upper link to get more camber change in the corner and/or lengthen the rear suspension upper link to get less camber change in the corner.
But for point 5, won't this only improve the initial turn in response? If I do point 5 I get a car with more agressive corner entry, but understeer out of corner....
Sorry about focusing so much on roll centre/axis; lots of ppl tell me it is pointless but I believe it gives the car a certain "feel", it's like a blob of clay and how you sculpt it.... I can make my car pivot through the corner on the front diffs, on the rear diffs, make it boring to drive or agressive.... I'm getting out of point...
05-28-2002, 12:26 PM
#152
Tech Adept
Potato
Lower arm length will affect roll centre and camber change in a similar fashion to changing the length of the uper link. There is a standard diagram for calculating roll centres in all the textbooks. If you are unfamiliar with this I suggest you find a copy and examine it. You can find it on orions or associateds site.
If you use a shorter wishbone you will need to play about with the shock mounting positions both on the tower and the wishbone. You will still never achieve 100% identical spring / damper characteristics to what you had before.
If you don't space the wheels out to compensate for the shorter wishbones you will narrow the track width. This will increase weight transfer and usually reduce lateral grip. (Although the exact affects at the front can vary with ackerman.)
(Note: weight transfer is not the same as roll. If you are not convinced of this just remember that a go kart with no suspension still transfers weight though it doesn't roll.)
If you just mean long wishbone with long upper link as opposed to short wishbone and short upperlink then longer means lower vertical roll centre migration and higher roll centre.
Forget about F1 suspensions. The springs are so stiff that virtually all of the suspension effect comes from the tyres and flex of the wishbone. Geometry is also largely determined by aerodynamics. For instance a lot of cars use a common inboard mounting point for both lower wishbones in an attempt to reduce frontal area.
Lower arm length will affect roll centre and camber change in a similar fashion to changing the length of the uper link. There is a standard diagram for calculating roll centres in all the textbooks. If you are unfamiliar with this I suggest you find a copy and examine it. You can find it on orions or associateds site.
If you use a shorter wishbone you will need to play about with the shock mounting positions both on the tower and the wishbone. You will still never achieve 100% identical spring / damper characteristics to what you had before.
If you don't space the wheels out to compensate for the shorter wishbones you will narrow the track width. This will increase weight transfer and usually reduce lateral grip. (Although the exact affects at the front can vary with ackerman.)
(Note: weight transfer is not the same as roll. If you are not convinced of this just remember that a go kart with no suspension still transfers weight though it doesn't roll.)
If you just mean long wishbone with long upper link as opposed to short wishbone and short upperlink then longer means lower vertical roll centre migration and higher roll centre.
Forget about F1 suspensions. The springs are so stiff that virtually all of the suspension effect comes from the tyres and flex of the wishbone. Geometry is also largely determined by aerodynamics. For instance a lot of cars use a common inboard mounting point for both lower wishbones in an attempt to reduce frontal area.
05-28-2002, 12:32 PM
#153
Hey Alvin
To answer your question about point 5....it depends on soo many things, such as how optimized your camber is right now. If you camber is optimized in the corner right now, then increasing the camber through a shorter upper link will give you less traction and yes it could produce an understeer situation during the middle to end of the corner. There is nothing like trying it to see what happens.
To answer your question about point 5....it depends on soo many things, such as how optimized your camber is right now. If you camber is optimized in the corner right now, then increasing the camber through a shorter upper link will give you less traction and yes it could produce an understeer situation during the middle to end of the corner. There is nothing like trying it to see what happens.
05-28-2002, 08:26 PM
#154
hi mcrisp,
Do have you any experience of tuning Tamiya TBEVOII??
Do have you any experience of tuning Tamiya TBEVOII??
05-28-2002, 11:33 PM
#155
mcrisp/Alvin/BigDog: thanks for all the tips! will try them out at the track tonight. hopefully they will improve my lap times further (already have the lap record so far for mod but for some reason i feel i need to go faster coz im sure others will defenitly improve theirs as well). will let you know how things work out. 
keep this topic goin guys! one of the better one's in rctech!
keep this topic goin guys! one of the better one's in rctech!
05-29-2002, 06:01 AM
#156
EVO II
Hi TRF-Powered,
I drove the EVOII a couple of times and worked on a setup for another guy at our track. I posted the setup on my website. The setup might be a reasonable starting point but there was more speed left on the table.
cya,
I drove the EVOII a couple of times and worked on a setup for another guy at our track. I posted the setup on my website. The setup might be a reasonable starting point but there was more speed left on the table.
cya,
06-02-2002, 06:23 PM
#157
Tech Initiate
roborat,
sundin mo lahat ng payo nyan si Martin sya yun pinakamagaling dito sa toronto di ko ma lagpasan yan marami pang bigas akong kakainin para maabutan ko yan
Martin,
I told roborat to follow you tips
sundin mo lahat ng payo nyan si Martin sya yun pinakamagaling dito sa toronto di ko ma lagpasan yan marami pang bigas akong kakainin para maabutan ko yan
Martin,
I told roborat to follow you tips
06-02-2002, 10:52 PM
#158
Hi Mcrisp,
I checked out your website and copied the set up for th evoII. however, do you know how to get 2.5 degree toe in in the rear without the 2.5 degree suspension block?? you are sponsored by Tamiya so i suppose you get some parts before it's avalible to the public. ( Tamiya just released the toe in suspension blocks in the shizuko hobby show. )
Is there other way to achieve that?... Thanks!
I checked out your website and copied the set up for th evoII. however, do you know how to get 2.5 degree toe in in the rear without the 2.5 degree suspension block?? you are sponsored by Tamiya so i suppose you get some parts before it's avalible to the public. ( Tamiya just released the toe in suspension blocks in the shizuko hobby show. )
Is there other way to achieve that?... Thanks!
06-03-2002, 12:53 AM
#159
Howdy Martin,
I was wondering if you've given much of a look at the Yok SP, I just switched to it from the XXX-S and I'm a bit lost trying to get it up to speed. I've swapped the oneways out for a fixed center and front diff, and I've gone from the kit's 1 degree rear toe carriers to 2 degree parts. The car has gotten much more manageable this way, but I'm still a bit off the pace.
Bigdog... how did you like the SP? Did you have to change the kit setup much to get it working?
Thanks for any advice...
Trips
I was wondering if you've given much of a look at the Yok SP, I just switched to it from the XXX-S and I'm a bit lost trying to get it up to speed. I've swapped the oneways out for a fixed center and front diff, and I've gone from the kit's 1 degree rear toe carriers to 2 degree parts. The car has gotten much more manageable this way, but I'm still a bit off the pace.
Bigdog... how did you like the SP? Did you have to change the kit setup much to get it working?
Thanks for any advice...
Trips
06-04-2002, 02:40 PM
#161
Trips- I love my SP- it fast, but lately the new Mission has been a little better. I have the Tosolini camber mods done to both of my SP's- front and rear. I even have rear blocks ready to put on. As far as the rear toe blocks, the 2deg just calm the rear down a little- I use them to fine tune the balance. On asphalt I run white/blue, 30/30 Trinity, 5.5/5.5 RH, 61/60mm or 61/60.5mm shock length (must adjust according to the RH), short shock ends X 4, servo turned sideways, single center bar cut out of the top plate, 0 front toe, -1.0/-1.5 camber, silver front swaybar/no rear, outside on shock towers X 4 (almost always). I want to try the 3 deg castor blocks to pick up turn in, but don't have any right now. Also the body on my car makes a lot of difference- my Vectra has a ton more steering than the stratus, but the stratus feels a little better for the same reason- feels more balanced. I think if the back was a hair more planted the vectra would be the ticket. I haven't had much time to test lately. I'm almost convinced the correct camber position in the rear along with the optimum up travel setting will result in a wicked fast car. I just need the time to try some things- temporary p/l tracks SUCK!! 
06-04-2002, 05:36 PM
#162
Originally posted by BigDogRacing
temporary p/l tracks SUCK!!
temporary p/l tracks SUCK!!
06-10-2002, 08:25 PM
#163
Don't let this thread dip!
414M racers, do you know what the "Rebound Stroke" field in the setup sheets mean? Like 2mm rebound?
Thanks!
~Alvin
414M racers, do you know what the "Rebound Stroke" field in the setup sheets mean? Like 2mm rebound?
Thanks!
~Alvin
06-11-2002, 04:11 AM
#164
This is a great thread. martin used your info Sunday and made 2nd in the B main with my X-Ray and 5th B main in Nitro. Really fast drivers there Sunday.
06-11-2002, 02:24 PM
#165
Martin, great book although I haven't had a chance to put it to use yet.
I think I found a mistake on page 13 and 14 in the shock oil section. Scenario D. You say to (in the cheat sheet), first increase the thickness of the rear oil then reduce the thickness of the front oil. On page 13 is says the opposite in the paragraph description. I assume the cheat sheet is correct.
I am also confused with the paragraph descriptions of scenario C and D on page 13.
Scenario C: You say entering the corner OFF power both the front and rear shocks compress, Do you mean the front is compressing and the rear is DEcompressing?
Scenario D: You say both the front and rear shocks are decompressing exiting the corner on power, Do you mean the rear is compressing and the front is decompressing?
I understand what you are getting at but just wanted to clarify it.
Great book, can you also make one for offroad, a lot of the same things apply except offroad adds in jumping and landing.
I think I found a mistake on page 13 and 14 in the shock oil section. Scenario D. You say to (in the cheat sheet), first increase the thickness of the rear oil then reduce the thickness of the front oil. On page 13 is says the opposite in the paragraph description. I assume the cheat sheet is correct.
I am also confused with the paragraph descriptions of scenario C and D on page 13.
Scenario C: You say entering the corner OFF power both the front and rear shocks compress, Do you mean the front is compressing and the rear is DEcompressing?
Scenario D: You say both the front and rear shocks are decompressing exiting the corner on power, Do you mean the rear is compressing and the front is decompressing?
I understand what you are getting at but just wanted to clarify it.
Great book, can you also make one for offroad, a lot of the same things apply except offroad adds in jumping and landing.