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Old 06-26-2009, 09:24 AM   #9496
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For discussion sake only... why are you guys using droop to tune your suspension? I know that full scale cars use droop chains/cables to limit overall suspension extension in certain situations... but none of those conditions are seen in 1/10th scale TC racing.

If the chassis is tuned right... you wont NEED droop screws to limit overall travel. A chassis needs to roll and transfer weight in order for its geometry to do its job... unless youre running pan cars. Even then there is still a little bit of roll. Opinions?
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:43 AM   #9497
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For discussion sake only... why are you guys using droop to tune your suspension? I know that full scale cars use droop chains/cables to limit overall suspension extension in certain situations... but none of those conditions are seen in 1/10th scale TC racing.

If the chassis is tuned right... you wont NEED droop screws to limit overall travel. A chassis needs to roll and transfer weight in order for its geometry to do its job... unless youre running pan cars. Even then there is still a little bit of roll. Opinions?
For me, it was just a noobie thing. At the time, I didn't know that pre-loading the springs effected ride height. No one told me, so I thought that's the way things worked. Then one of the guys helped me with my setup, and I got a crash course in tuning my car. Now, I make sure the new guys know, what dose, what. So, they don't make the same mistake.
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Old 06-26-2009, 12:33 PM   #9498
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I was always confused as to why companies implemented droop control on TC's. As with any specific setting, abuse or misuse of it can cause an ill handling car/truck. But i really dont see a positive result of droop control for TC's.

With the Tc3 and the Tc4 (using the plastic diff in the rear) it is easy to blow out the rear diff by using droop limiting screws. Anytime one rear tire unloads (it doesnt even have to come off the ground) through cornering... the rear diff spins that tire twice as fast, heats up the rings and balls... and ruins the diff.

The fact is... if the car needs to roll that much (using full suspension extension) to work, then you need to change the roll centers and/or springs. If the roll centers/springs are right, allowing the car to work properly, then excessive suspension extension limitation isnt needed.

Personally i think droop control is more useful on offroad cars. I know 1/8 uses them... but even in 1/10th buggies and trucks. Suspension extension can really change how an offroad car/truck jumps and handles ruts and surface imperfections.
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Old 06-26-2009, 12:35 PM   #9499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW View Post
For discussion sake only... why are you guys using droop to tune your suspension? I know that full scale cars use droop chains/cables to limit overall suspension extension in certain situations... but none of those conditions are seen in 1/10th scale TC racing.

If the chassis is tuned right... you wont NEED droop screws to limit overall travel. A chassis needs to roll and transfer weight in order for its geometry to do its job... unless youre running pan cars. Even then there is still a little bit of roll. Opinions?
There needs to come a point where the roll STOPS. It's going to come some time - and the point of droop is actually two-fold:

1. to limit that roll, that suspension flex. That's when it really does its turn. (simplistic, but still true)

but mostly. . .

2. to make all of the droop EQUAL. Actually, I don't really care how much droop I have (okay, I do. . .but it's more a "reasonable" amount) as long as it is the same side to side.

If you have 2mm difference in droop from L to R, you're going to have some weird issues.

You can set droop with the shocks - making sure the extension is exactly the same L to R . . . which is actually the old-fashioned way to do it and why the kit instructions say to make your shocks all the same length. Using the droop screws is really just a shortcut (a nice one)

edit: Forgot one thing:

On a really smooth surface (carpet, really groomed asphalt) you can have a really tiny amount of droop. You still want a bit or you'll be traction rolling constantly as you aren't letting your suspension work "down" - but you don't need a whole lot.

On anything that isn't baby-arse-smooth, you need some droop to allow the tires to drop down to grab that surface. Too much and your car will feel sluggish. . . not enough and you'll be bouncing around. . .


Great illustration - think CORR trucks (which are all dropout) vs. F1 (which have almost NO droop) - look at how much F1 cars bounce around the track. They hit the curbing and they bounce - but they react INSTANTLY to drive input.

Now put a CORR (Championship Off Road Racing) truck on the came course - curbing? What curbing? LOL But they're going to be like driving a slug - slow reaction to turns, etc. Use the same spring rates and shock rates, but leave the same amount of shock travel (no limiting droop) and they're still going to wallow since there is nothing to limit the amount of body roll.

Yes - exaggerated example.

One more edit - I used CORR trucks since they run a pretty low ride height (for off-road racing).
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Last edited by Boomer; 06-26-2009 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 06-26-2009, 12:43 PM   #9500
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LOL i wondered if you would chime in Boomer... i remember a discussion about droop years ago you were part of.

I was gonna mention the shock length limitation (inner spacers)... but i didnt wanna date myself and give a hint as to my age... haha

I actually messed with inner springs with varying rates years ago. They only worked with certain ride heights tho... considering the inner spring lengths. It got waay to technical and i just shelved them.

I actually have my droop screws in my car, but they dont touch the chassis at the shocks full extension. If anything... they have helped me in the past finding steering off corner running mod... but it was temporary, as i changed other settings to get rid of the droop limitation.
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Old 06-26-2009, 12:52 PM   #9501
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You're right, Dave. If you've got your shocks set correctly, you don't really need droop (dropout).

When I first started racing Nitro, I had NO droop. Shocks were too short and I couldn't get any ride height. . .real noobish mistake. Friend had me extend my shocks (a lot. . .LOL) and now I could get some ride height - but I used the droop screws to set it. (yes, another noobish mistake)

Now, if I clipped a dot (which I do) it was an immediate roll. I'd watch guys like Barry or Brian clip dots just a touch and no big deal - I'd just THINK about CONCEIVING of APPROACHING the touching of a dot and I'm airborn upside down.

No droop. No way for the suspension to absorb the variations of the road.

Your suspension should be in the middle of its travel.

You have a limit on how far up it will go - a physical limitation based on the shocks.

You have a limit on how far down it will go too - shock length or droop screws. Possibly suspension binding on the chassis (which is essentially what the droop screws do).

They do work together, and both are important.
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Old 06-26-2009, 04:55 PM   #9502
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Hey guys. Does anyone know where I can find a spool for my tc4. Havnt had much luck finding anything so far. I race in the parking lot infront of my LHS every sunday and it seems everyone is recommending and runnings spools in the front of there cars. Also, can anyone point me in the direction of a good setup for rubber tires on unprepared, cracked, and uneven pavement. Most of our track is pretty flat but there are some spots with some cracks and we also spray the track down with fruit punch root beer mix.
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Old 06-26-2009, 05:19 PM   #9503
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Hey guys. Does anyone know where I can find a spool for my tc4. Havnt had much luck finding anything so far. I race in the parking lot infront of my LHS every sunday and it seems everyone is recommending and runnings spools in the front of there cars. Also, can anyone point me in the direction of a good setup for rubber tires on unprepared, cracked, and uneven pavement. Most of our track is pretty flat but there are some spots with some cracks and we also spray the track down with fruit punch root beer mix.
Try an online store? The only diff that didn't come with my TC4 complete was a plastic diff. I had enough spares to make a plastic with out the balls, so I grabbed a spare diff pad and put it in between the outdrive and ring gear, instant spool. I'm running my custom built spool in the rear and my actual spool in the front.
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Old 06-26-2009, 05:26 PM   #9504
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Try an online store? The only diff that didn't come with my TC4 complete was a plastic diff. I had enough spares to make a plastic with out the balls, so I grabbed a spare diff pad and put it in between the outdrive and ring gear, instant spool. I'm running my custom built spool in the rear and my actual spool in the front.
Hmm. Wait, Im confused. I have a bunch of extra diff pieces so how exactly did you make the spool?

outdrive>d ring>gear(with ball)>d ring> outdrive

obviously bearings as well but what exactly did you set up to make the spool. I think I may be able to build one and place it in the front and then use my steel diff in the rear. For some reason I keep melting the plastic diffs but my steel is working perfectly.

Oh and I havnt been able to find a spool online anywhere. I can find one ways but no spool.
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Old 06-26-2009, 05:36 PM   #9505
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Try a very tight steel diff, or use pads in it... as already mentioned. Either will provide you with 90% of what a spool will... but with 100% more longevity. You will need some aluminum CVD's too. Steel diffs seem to chew up and spit out composite CVD's.
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Old 06-26-2009, 05:48 PM   #9506
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Towerhobbies has the steel ones in stock now : LXJTS2 $23.39 !!! Remember to also search for parts under TC3 not just TC4 !!!
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Old 06-26-2009, 08:13 PM   #9507
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So im going to build the diff like normal except take out the balls on the gear and put a pad on each side of the gear. Which pads would I use? I already have the FT cvds so I should be good to go there.
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Old 06-26-2009, 11:14 PM   #9508
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Originally Posted by Ride1226 View Post
Hmm. Wait, Im confused. I have a bunch of extra diff pieces so how exactly did you make the spool?

outdrive>d ring>gear(with ball)>d ring> outdrive

obviously bearings as well but what exactly did you set up to make the spool. I think I may be able to build one and place it in the front and then use my steel diff in the rear. For some reason I keep melting the plastic diffs but my steel is working perfectly.

Oh and I havnt been able to find a spool online anywhere. I can find one ways but no spool.
The spool I made up from my spares goes as the following.


outdrive>d ring>d ring>gear(no balls)>d ring> outdrive
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Old 06-26-2009, 11:25 PM   #9509
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Try a very tight steel diff, or use pads in it... as already mentioned. Either will provide you with 90% of what a spool will... but with 100% more longevity. You will need some aluminum CVD's too. Steel diffs seem to chew up and spit out composite CVD's.
When runing a spool I use the NTC3 CVA They make the front end bullet proof
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Old 06-26-2009, 11:59 PM   #9510
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The spool I made up from my spares goes as the following.


outdrive>d ring>d ring>gear(no balls)>d ring> outdrive
Hmm well I will have to look into doing that. I would imagine it would probably be the best idea to do that with steel outdrives... Ill still try it with plastics though just because I have some lying around.
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