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Old 06-13-2006, 12:27 PM   #8566
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Originally Posted by khyron
Thank you so much so clarifying this! To make sure I understand...

Okay, so BOTH the "carbon" and "regular" parts are a composite of plastic and fibers and go crunch crunch when you free them from a parts tree or break one, but the "carbon" ones are just stiffer and very slightly lighter? I'm trying to understand how one would even tell them apart once loose in a parts box, do you have to label them to know?

-OR-

Are the "regular" plastic parts completely free of these fibers, looking shinier and blacker and more like other common "plastic" parts like a Grasshopper chassis or a battery end cap, etc? Then all the Team Kit parts must be "carbon" because they all have fibers in them, and I've never seen the plastic parts before, and they exist only on RTR cars or the wall of a hobby shop?

In either case...

...it sounds to me like the carbon would be nice to have in a chassis itself to eliminate flex, but that I'd prefer the plastic arms because I run a long, fast, outdoor parking lot course that eats weaker, more rigid arms for breakfast, having them be a little more resiliant might actually serve me better (finishing a main is better than shaving a fractional ounce any day).
everything said so far seems about right. recap.

plastic (in team kit and RTR):
appearance is darker, slightly shinier, more black
material is softer, more durable, and weighs a slight bit more

"carbon" (in FT kit):
appearance is more of a gray, more fibers are visible
material is stiffer, and weighs a slight bit less

you should be able to tell relatively easily which is which if you are holding both in your hands...
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Old 06-13-2006, 12:36 PM   #8567
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Hey Bob, the only conversions out there that are worth doing are the BMI or the FT. I actually have heard good things about that newer FT chassis...the one that flexes more....I don't remember the name of it. BMI is a little more agressive then the FT car. I would probably leave the car alone and just be patient for the new car. Either that or get a EC
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Old 06-13-2006, 01:41 PM   #8568
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The ITF (Increased Torsional Flex) chassis.

Complete kit (top deck, spine and chassis) part no. 31136
Spine Plate part no. 31135
Chassis part no. 31134
Top deck part no. 31133
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Old 06-13-2006, 05:56 PM   #8569
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Cool rear hubs

y does some of u guys run the LOSI rear hubs on the TC4? is it because its more durable?
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Old 06-13-2006, 05:57 PM   #8570
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Default oh yea

Oh yea .... Ilike the BMI chassie better than FT
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Old 06-13-2006, 06:31 PM   #8571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barry
Hey Bob, the only conversions out there that are worth doing are the BMI or the FT. I actually have heard good things about that newer FT chassis...the one that flexes more....I don't remember the name of it. BMI is a little more agressive then the FT car. I would probably leave the car alone and just be patient for the new car. Either that or get a EC

Just wondering if you have actually tried using one of the P5500tc4's or this is just an opinion. As the car has proven itself on track to be a formitable car in many cases faster than the Factory Team TC4 and considerably faster than the BMI. The TC4 version is a evolution of our TC3 car which won the 2004 ROAR Region 3 championship. The P5500tc4 is by far the most adjustable chassis available and can be more flexible as the new FT or stiffer for carpet running.

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Old 06-13-2006, 06:41 PM   #8572
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thats interesting.didnt know that there was a shootout between them.its news to me.there are many who many who beg to differ.i have had alot of success with my tc4 kit.i not once used your kit as a stepping stone to promote mine so i would appreciate if you would not use mine.the results of my kits speak for themselves.my kits have made A mains in about every big race all over the country on both carpet and asphalt.i have earned my reputation by putting out functional products that speak for themselves.not by putting down the competition.im sure your kit is nice so why not let it do the talking.
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Last edited by protc3; 06-13-2006 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 06-13-2006, 08:17 PM   #8573
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BMI

yea I have a TC3 1/2 that has a steering rack that is used on the 4 now with the batt tray moved over for bettering center,its really mod out if ya know what I mean . I drive that alot better than the FT4 , which i think the motor clamp sysytem SUCKS. but I'm not here to BASH on the car. I feel for MY driving style that the BMI in my hands feels ALOT better than than FT4
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Old 06-13-2006, 09:16 PM   #8574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protc3
thats interesting.didnt know that there was a shootout between them.its news to me.there are many who many who beg to differ.i have had alot of success with my tc4 kit.i not once used your kit as a stepping stone to promote mine so i would appreciate if you would not use mine.the results of my kits speak for themselves.my kits have made A mains in about every big race all over the country on both carpet and asphalt.i have earned my reputation by putting out functional products that speak for themselves.not by putting down the competition.im sure your kit is nice so why not let it do the talking.
My response was not directed at a post that you made it was directed at the post made by Bob Berry that Quote "the only conversions out there that are worth doing are the BMI or the FT" If he does not have first hand knowledge of all of the conversions out there then it is misleading (and in essence a put down to ours chassis along with others). So I asked if he had first hand knowledge and stated what we have seen while running the kits and from customers in regard to the Factory Team and BMI Chassis, It is very possible that there is another chassis out there faster than all of them together.. Which there actually is but it isn't an Associated. The post was not meant to be a put down of BMI or Associated. It was a response to a post that was not made by you.

Now if Bob Berry is a Factory BMI Driver I can understand his comment, but it should be noted as such in his posts.
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Old 06-13-2006, 10:26 PM   #8575
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Well First off spell my name right. I aint no fruit

Ok now the basis for MY OPINION.

I have run the FT car. I have run the BMI car. I have had a former teammate who was very successful with the Penguin version for the TC3, I apologize for not knowing your line up, anyway he told me that he felt the newwer version (which I guess is the one you are referring to now) was lacking. He said that he didn't know if it was a product of a bad conversion kit or just a car that didn't work as well. If you check around, alot of TC3 guys bailed on the TC4 so that could have been his motivation. I don't know. I just know what he told me. He was not happy with that car. I respected his opinion and I stored it away.

wow, I remember when I used to get ripped in here because I said the BMI car was more consistant for me than the tub car...before the FT even came out. now I stop by to say hi and I offer an opinion to a friend and I have people ready to kill me again. Tough crowd.

Jason, sorry if I riled everyone up again.
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Old 06-13-2006, 10:27 PM   #8576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RcRacing4Ever
y does some of u guys run the LOSI rear hubs on the TC4? is it because its more durable?
I ran them to get more fine tuning for roll center adjustments. Durability was never an issue.
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Old 06-13-2006, 11:28 PM   #8577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barry
Well First off spell my name right. I aint no fruit

Ok now the basis for MY OPINION.

I have run the FT car. I have run the BMI car. I have had a former teammate who was very successful with the Penguin version for the TC3, I apologize for not knowing your line up, anyway he told me that he felt the newwer version (which I guess is the one you are referring to now) was lacking. He said that he didn't know if it was a product of a bad conversion kit or just a car that didn't work as well. If you check around, alot of TC3 guys bailed on the TC4 so that could have been his motivation. I don't know. I just know what he told me. He was not happy with that car. I respected his opinion and I stored it away.

wow, I remember when I used to get ripped in here because I said the BMI car was more consistant for me than the tub car...before the FT even came out. now I stop by to say hi and I offer an opinion to a friend and I have people ready to kill me again. Tough crowd.

Jason, sorry if I riled everyone up again.
Sorry about that on the name.. The P5500tc4 is essensially the tc3 with the newer suspension. We actually have seen on most tracks an improvement of around .5 sec per lap on moderately sized tracks with the TC4 version. The stock TC4 is actually not ans good of a car as the stock TC3 due to layout issues, this is why we chose to do an evolution rather than a redesign as the drivetrain is the same from TC3 to TC4. The TC4 version did add several features that add adjustment to the car.

Granted many people are just bailing on the TC4 all together as the drivetrain is not the best for the newest crop of motors and tracks.. everything is cyclical and currently belt drives are more suited to the current power delivery and are showing to be much, much faster.So in that respect any TC4 would be a disapointment.

My response initial response was basically concern for accuracy as in practice the P5500tc4 is a very fast and adjustible car. In local and regional races we have found it to be faster than most other manufacturers, but granted this is not always the case as the peformance of the car does have much to do with the driver.

There have been no direct challenge races of the BMI and Penguin chassis as protc3 has stated or even with the FT but every race is technically a competition between brands and cars. People do buy what wins, unfortunately the TC4 in general actually hasn't really won much at all and is being overshadowed by many other cars.

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Old 06-14-2006, 12:49 AM   #8578
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Sorry for starting a Pissing contest. Just so everyone is clear. I run a MI2 with the BMI conversion on it. Now my question was for a friend who bought his TC4 last year to replace his TA04. IT is the Team car and I'm trying to help him get the car more suited to his driveing. Right now we race at the C in Friedrick MD. it is a Indoor Asphalt track. I just thought that the Penguine would be easier for him to setup with all the roll center adjustments. And again so no one is confused I run a Schumacher and my next car will either be the EC or the Kyosho TF-5.


TY and sorry again for any misunderstanding's.
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Old 06-14-2006, 01:46 AM   #8579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVMRocket69
Sorry for starting a Pissing contest. Just so everyone is clear. I run a MI2 with the BMI conversion on it. Now my question was for a friend who bought his TC4 last year to replace his TA04. IT is the Team car and I'm trying to help him get the car more suited to his driveing. Right now we race at the C in Friedrick MD. it is a Indoor Asphalt track. I just thought that the Penguine would be easier for him to setup with all the roll center adjustments. And again so no one is confused I run a Schumacher and my next car will either be the EC or the Kyosho TF-5.


TY and sorry again for any misunderstanding's.

Ahh I really don't think it was so much of a pissing contest as a few misunderstandings in a row about intent of post... As for the TC4.. The roll center adjustments are pretty much the same for every car and probably every conversion chassis, as they all more than likely use the newer vertical mounting set-up. We did make some major changes to the way in which the set-up is designed on the P5500tc4 as we use a graphite plate set-up to allow for additional raised positions while retaining strength in the setup which helps retain settings in use. There are also additional positions for the length of the camber links. Technically the corner braces and camber link set-up from the P5500tc4 can be used on any TC4. If you do not like the vertcal link set-up the TC4 is also capable of running the TC3's towers which would provide more traditional Camber link settings.

Most of the TC4's Settings are going to be common from one car to the next asmany setting functions such as the shock towers and Camber links are the same from car to car.

So where are the differences in conversions. Weight and tortional stiffness are the two big things in getting a conversion. After that it is adaptability. as for the P5500TC4 it has quite a few features to allow you to customize the balance of the car to suit your driving such as adjustable battery positioning in or out which changes the response of the car, Dual Side Servo Mounting to allow for different battery layouts, Dual Side Battery Slots which allows for staggered saddle packs. The P5500tc4 also has optional stiffening posts to allow the user to customize the tortional rigidity of the car to suit their driving style and track conditions. As far as suspension differences I have described the camber link adjustments above which add one additional location and then a considerable amount of extra height adjustments to give a wider range of set-up options. Initial settings are lower than stock (higher roll center) and allow adjustment to ground level roll center placement.

Optional are the shock towers which have a revised arc mounting and two additional shock angles on the front for greater response.

Durability Options include nerf wings to protect the rear suspension and a front bumper support and brace.

So that basically covers our car.
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Old 06-14-2006, 04:25 AM   #8580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin r/c
Sorry about that on the name.. The P5500tc4 is essensially the tc3 with the newer suspension. We actually have seen on most tracks an improvement of around .5 sec per lap on moderately sized tracks with the TC4 version. The stock TC4 is actually not ans good of a car as the stock TC3 due to layout issues, this is why we chose to do an evolution rather than a redesign as the drivetrain is the same from TC3 to TC4. The TC4 version did add several features that add adjustment to the car.

Granted many people are just bailing on the TC4 all together as the drivetrain is not the best for the newest crop of motors and tracks.. everything is cyclical and currently belt drives are more suited to the current power delivery and are showing to be much, much faster.So in that respect any TC4 would be a disapointment.

My response initial response was basically concern for accuracy as in practice the P5500tc4 is a very fast and adjustible car. In local and regional races we have found it to be faster than most other manufacturers, but granted this is not always the case as the peformance of the car does have much to do with the driver.

There have been no direct challenge races of the BMI and Penguin chassis as protc3 has stated or even with the FT but every race is technically a competition between brands and cars. People do buy what wins, unfortunately the TC4 in general actually hasn't really won much at all and is being overshadowed by many other cars.

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there is alot more than just weight distribution changes on the tc4 compared to the tc3.the more improtant changes made to the car which made it handle differently was inboard hinge pin spacing,steering geometry and suspension geometry.the car did well as a shaft car with my chassis kit on it and also with the ft version of the car.to say the ft did nothing impressive is wrong.if you think back to just last year it won the reedy race.on my conversion i didnt bother with mindless changes on the car.i corrected the steering geometry,balanced the car a little better,incorperated flex adjustments, and used more usable camber link adjustments.alot of the things you are listing that make your kit so much better than the rest will not do anything but hurt a shaft car.im not going to bother arguing here anymore because this really is getting to be a joke.this is not the time to be trying to pump your kit up with a new car on the horizon.let the people buy what they like.they chose my tc3 and also have seemed to choose my tc4 conversion.looks like you shouldnt need to tell them how good it is.let the people say it.its a little odd that you need to do that.what ever though,im tired of even looking at these mindless posts you keep posting.attacking people on here because of what they found worked.
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