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Old 06-10-2005, 09:29 PM   #4936
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If you think about it the mags are the best chance we have at a honest answer, why you ask, just check any thread that starts...what TC should I get or what is the best TC? How many different answers will you get?
How unbiased will the answers be? This is from racers right? Racers that think their car is the best until their next car that is. I personally like the way that XRC does the reviews,does that make their word the last word, no It is just a nice baseline opinion from people that do this all the time.

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Old 06-10-2005, 10:05 PM   #4937
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Here is a e-mail from AE

Quote:
June 10, 2005

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Another edition of the
Team Associated Insider's Newsletter

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

NEW! Factory Team TC4

Team Associated's new Factory Team TC4 already has a big win before the kits
have even been boxed.

Team Associated's U.K. driving star Craig Drescher won the prestigious
invitational Touring Car class at the 2005 Reedy International Race of
Champions. Craig beat the world's best drivers, chassis, and motor builders in
the industry to take the overall win.

This was Associated's first race with the Factory Team TC4 and the entire team
was impressed with the level of performance and adjustability provided by the
new chassis design, and Craig winning the event was truly, "icing on the cake"!

The FT TC4 marks a milestone in electric touring car development by allowing
maximum chassis stiffness adjustability without replacing the main chassis. It
features a double deck 2.5mm woven carbon fiber chassis that incorporates an
adjustable carbon fiber spine plate. The chassis spine plate allows an extremely
wide range of chassis stiffness adjustment in small increments. This allows the
chassis to be dialed in for high grip carpet racing or for low grip parking lot
racing and everything in between. In addition to the spine plate, there are four
blue aluminum chassis brace standoffs that allow even more chassis stiffness
adjustment.

Racers around the world will appreciate that they do not need to disassemble
their entire car or shell out more cash in order to change the chassis stiffness
of the Factory Team TC4. Just make the adjustments to the chassis spine plate or
standoffs and you're dialed.

If all these tuning options were not enough, we included two, three-piece
anti-roll bar kits for the front and rear of the FT TC4.

Another major tuning option included in the FT TC4 is that you can choose
between two types of differentials, based on the class of racing you participate
in. The lightweight composite diffs provide increased acceleration in 19 turn or
stock class racing. The lightened, steel differentials easily tolerate the very
high demands for strength which modified racing requires.


The Factory Team TC4 includes:

Double deck 2.5mm woven carbon fiber chassis
2.5mm woven carbon fiber center spine
2.5mm woven carbon fiber front shock tower
3.0mm woven carbon fiber rear shock tower
Carbon shock tower mounts
Carbon antenna mount, easy access (remove antenna/receiver without re-threading)
Carbon servo mounts
Carbon input bearing cap
Carbon center spine mounts
Blue aluminum motor bulkhead
Blue aluminum camber link spacers
Blue aluminum standoffs
Blue aluminum clamping hex drives
Blue aluminum triangle arm mount
Blue aluminum circle arm mount
Blue aluminum square arm mount
Blue aluminum x-2.5 arm mount
Heavy-duty CVD dogbones
Full titanium turnbuckles
Factory team blue aluminum hardware
Front anti-roll bar kit (includes 3 different bars)
Rear anti-roll bar kit (includes 3 different bars)
Aluminum shock bushings
Lightweight TC4 foam bumper
2 differentials - plastic or steel. (plastic outdrives, D-rings, diff-bolt and
nut) or lightened steel outdrives (diff rings, T-nut and bolt). Both choices are
included!
2.5mm ball end L-shaped Allen-key wrench

Part number and retail pricing:
#30102, Factory Team TC4, $599.99
UPC# 78469530102

Availability:
Available July 2005

Web photos:
http://www.rc10.com/enlarge/30102.htm
http://www.rc10.com/enlarge/30102_top.htm

***************************************

Did you find this newsletter helpful? Please hit Reply and let us know how this
helped you!
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Old 06-11-2005, 01:42 AM   #4938
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- like I said, it was only a matter of time before Derek and Shane got on here and bashed me. It's funny how I get quoted while others don't.

Derek and Shane - I've offered to come and talk with both of you (on MY dime, no less) about what I think and to let you show me your test bench, etc. I offered to take Shane to lunch while I was in San Diego or any other time - I live less than an hour from you. Derek was offered Beer at Heroes here in Claremont - less than 20 minutes from the XRC HQ.

I have not heard back since then.

But both of you know my arguments - I've made them repeatedly.

StephenB - I do read the magazine. I get the mag from a friend who does subscribe. I, personally, don't. This way I can read articles that are of interest, usually when he points them out, and can discuss things in an educated fashion. Please don't say that I don't do my research. . .it's an insult to one of the people on this forum who spends a LOT of time doing research.


It's a shame that y'all took so long to get to this thread. It would have been more relevant A WEEK AGO (or whatever) when I actually posted. Now you're just sour grapes.


My point, Shane, just in case you didn't pick it up, was that in this case the stock setting was used to rate the car, while in other cases it was rated after adjustments had been made, in one memorable case those adjustments were made with the assistance of a team driver.



However - this is not the "XRC Issues" thread. Nor is it the "Boomer's Stupid" thread - if you want to make that thread, be my guest, be my guest.

This IS, however, the forum for discussing the TC4. So, particularly me, I'm going to discuss IT. My original comments WERE regarding it, much the same way that Shane's comments are.

I do apreciate your comments, Shane. My problem is, however, that all of your reviews do not come on equal footing. You rated the TC4 on the same baseline as you do the X-Ray, the Tamiya, etc. So, yeah, the TC4 retails for $200 (Towerhobbies.com) while the XRay retails for twice that. The TC4 had JUST come out and we all know how stock setups are - yet you rated it on the stock setup.

It took me ONE DAY, with the one-way from my TC3, and I had the car running quite well, with great turnin. It took me longer to get it to carry speed through the turn (but that's always been my weakness. . .I've always had a hard time with mid-turn "sit". . .argh) but turnin was actually quite easy. Hmmm - stiffen up the rear springs, stiffen up the oil, change the rear block (I used the plastic one) to -2, and voila, I had a car that would turn in.

Sigh - but it doesn't really matter. You're defending your mag. I'm defending my car.

btw - where do y'all race?
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Old 06-11-2005, 05:44 AM   #4939
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That was the insider newsletter. Sound like a great car, but did you catch the price? Six Hundred Dollars??? That's a street price of about $400. I think electric touring car racing just got too expensive.
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Old 06-11-2005, 06:25 AM   #4940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiml
I think electric touring car racing just got too expensive.
Yup. I'm surprised AE would even go that high. Too much for me anyways.
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Old 06-11-2005, 07:30 AM   #4941
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I am expecting that the street price for the car is going to be around $350.00. This would put it right in line with the Losi, Xray and Corally cars.

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Old 06-11-2005, 07:32 AM   #4942
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Yup, very true there Kraig. I thought $400 was a it high.
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Old 06-11-2005, 07:32 AM   #4943
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Tony, did you guys do anything with the shocks yet or are they still the same ones as before?

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Old 06-11-2005, 07:36 AM   #4944
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i guess winning the reedy race has put a little extra on the pricing??
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Old 06-11-2005, 01:05 PM   #4945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaz8
i guess winning the reedy race has put a little extra on the pricing??
maybe but I doubt it.
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Old 06-11-2005, 01:21 PM   #4946
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Default It BS the cars are getting this expensive....

I think companies are testing the water to see how much people will pay. If people will buy them, it will keep driving the price up. $250-300 is the most I'll EVER pay for a top of the line FT kit and it better come with some good hopups.
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Old 06-11-2005, 01:21 PM   #4947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer
- like I said, it was only a matter of time before Derek and Shane got on here and bashed me. It's funny how I get quoted while others don't.

Derek and Shane - I've offered to come and talk with both of you (on MY dime, no less) about what I think and to let you show me your test bench, etc. I offered to take Shane to lunch while I was in San Diego or any other time - I live less than an hour from you. Derek was offered Beer at Heroes here in Claremont - less than 20 minutes from the XRC HQ.

I have not heard back since then.

But both of you know my arguments - I've made them repeatedly.

StephenB - I do read the magazine. I get the mag from a friend who does subscribe. I, personally, don't. This way I can read articles that are of interest, usually when he points them out, and can discuss things in an educated fashion. Please don't say that I don't do my research. . .it's an insult to one of the people on this forum who spends a LOT of time doing research.


It's a shame that y'all took so long to get to this thread. It would have been more relevant A WEEK AGO (or whatever) when I actually posted. Now you're just sour grapes.


My point, Shane, just in case you didn't pick it up, was that in this case the stock setting was used to rate the car, while in other cases it was rated after adjustments had been made, in one memorable case those adjustments were made with the assistance of a team driver.



However - this is not the "XRC Issues" thread. Nor is it the "Boomer's Stupid" thread - if you want to make that thread, be my guest, be my guest.

This IS, however, the forum for discussing the TC4. So, particularly me, I'm going to discuss IT. My original comments WERE regarding it, much the same way that Shane's comments are.

I do apreciate your comments, Shane. My problem is, however, that all of your reviews do not come on equal footing. You rated the TC4 on the same baseline as you do the X-Ray, the Tamiya, etc. So, yeah, the TC4 retails for $200 (Towerhobbies.com) while the XRay retails for twice that. The TC4 had JUST come out and we all know how stock setups are - yet you rated it on the stock setup.

It took me ONE DAY, with the one-way from my TC3, and I had the car running quite well, with great turnin. It took me longer to get it to carry speed through the turn (but that's always been my weakness. . .I've always had a hard time with mid-turn "sit". . .argh) but turnin was actually quite easy. Hmmm - stiffen up the rear springs, stiffen up the oil, change the rear block (I used the plastic one) to -2, and voila, I had a car that would turn in.

Sigh - but it doesn't really matter. You're defending your mag. I'm defending my car.

btw - where do y'all race?

I didn't realize that I had to search your posts out when they call me out. Again all I can say is that the tuning issues were addressed in the article. And the reason why it was compared to the FT TC3 were explained. For example you compare the next Corvette to the Previous Vette. Like how the C6 performs the same as the C5 Z06. And why because we had a first run car the parts that you get to celebrate at the track weren't available at the time. If you read, Shane was helped by the AE team at the track. Is it fair to review a car with proto-type parts you can't buy at the time.

Boomer, you can have your opinion about the car. And notice not once do I say you are wrong about what you did to test the car, or race the car. The reason why YOU get quoted is that for some reason you challenge what WE thought of the car. As I stated before, we give people objective reviews and the people that have the cars that love them can't handle that? Come'on. Read all the initial talk about the TC4. Like the TC3 it took a little bit of time to get what works with the car and what doesn't. And how is the stock setup with a one-way and other changes?

And also remember what works for you may not work for somebody else. And I don't know your level of driving where you think something helped you out. I'm not knocking your driving but there are multiple levels of what works and what is getting you on pace.
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Old 06-11-2005, 01:32 PM   #4948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraig
I am expecting that the street price for the car is going to be around $350.00. This would put it right in line with the Losi, Xray and Corally cars.

Kraig
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The Losi, Corally, and the X-Ray are also too expensive. And $350 will probably be the really low end of the price spread, mail order price level.

But think about it, $350 for an electric touring car, when a Serpent 710, a nitro touring car, goes for $330?
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Old 06-11-2005, 02:04 PM   #4949
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Derek - you don't have to search out my posts - just read your darned IM's.

And now you're insulting my driving. That's okay, Derek. I'm fine with that. I have no pretentions of being an Expert Sedan driver - I'm mid-pack Sportsman and I'm fine with that - especially since Sedan is my "recreation" class - I run the "driver's" car as my main car - Pan Car. Not really dependent on setup - just drive it and may the best driver win.

You have an agenda - and it's NOT the agenda of any newspaper, magazine or other for-profit publication to write good articles. Those good articles are the means to an end. The end agenda is to make a profit, to gain advertisers who will pay you to place their ads. You do this by making a magazine that has good articles - and in every issue I've counted, it's about 50% content, 50% ads.

So I insulted the magazine business AS A WHOLE. Please note that I did NOT mention XRC (btw, I've said over and again that I think YOURS is probably the best of the pack. But your memory seems to be short! ) and I did not even single out RC mags - I talked about Rally, Motorsports, news, etc. In fact, I've seen only one mag that I think I'll subscribe to - GRM - Grassroots Motorsports. But that's another story, isn't it.

I do find it interesting how you keep thinking that I insult YOU, personally. Please go back and re-read my post. I did say that you would come on here and get after me (and it took 4-5 days! ) but other that that very accurate prediction, I wasn't bashing your magazine. I was bashing ALL magazines.


But you did make me laugh. Thank you for that.

I'm just bummed that I won't be racing RC this weekend - I'm off racing real rallycross cars.
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Old 06-11-2005, 06:54 PM   #4950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer
Derek - you don't have to search out my posts - just read your darned IM's.

And now you're insulting my driving. That's okay, Derek. I'm fine with that. I have no pretentions of being an Expert Sedan driver - I'm mid-pack Sportsman and I'm fine with that - especially since Sedan is my "recreation" class - I run the "driver's" car as my main car - Pan Car. Not really dependent on setup - just drive it and may the best driver win.

You have an agenda - and it's NOT the agenda of any newspaper, magazine or other for-profit publication to write good articles. Those good articles are the means to an end. The end agenda is to make a profit, to gain advertisers who will pay you to place their ads. You do this by making a magazine that has good articles - and in every issue I've counted, it's about 50% content, 50% ads.

So I insulted the magazine business AS A WHOLE. Please note that I did NOT mention XRC (btw, I've said over and again that I think YOURS is probably the best of the pack. But your memory seems to be short! ) and I did not even single out RC mags - I talked about Rally, Motorsports, news, etc. In fact, I've seen only one mag that I think I'll subscribe to - GRM - Grassroots Motorsports. But that's another story, isn't it.

I do find it interesting how you keep thinking that I insult YOU, personally. Please go back and re-read my post. I did say that you would come on here and get after me (and it took 4-5 days! ) but other that that very accurate prediction, I wasn't bashing your magazine. I was bashing ALL magazines.


But you did make me laugh. Thank you for that.

I'm just bummed that I won't be racing RC this weekend - I'm off racing real rallycross cars.

I'm not insulting you at all. In fact, I'm sure we'll get alone just fine. But realize when you mention magazine and me you are talking about me. And again I'm not sure why you think it's okay to say all business "for profit" can't write things that are true or accurate. And also why it seems you think people on the internet with keyboard driving skills have more experience and knowledge than magazine guys. Granted there are guys in the industry that can't drive, but I started racing when I was 13. And most of the guys at our magazine started out as racers.

We're all out to make a buck. I'm not sure what that means, or if that means I have an agenda. The agenda is to make a magazine that people want to read. The money will come after that.
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