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Old 04-18-2005, 08:21 AM   #4021
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i just wish i would stop reading racers toting the BMI chassis or ANY other CF conversion as the cure it all that fixes everything on the TC4.

There are TC4 issues that the BMI or a new chassis will NEVER adress no matter what (it s not necessarly better for flex, nor it fixes suspension slop notably) so will you people stop offering it as your only response to handling problems..

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Old 04-18-2005, 09:14 AM   #4022
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Couldn't agree more.

One of the reasons we race TC4s is because of the tub chassis, which is probasbly one of the best points on the car.

The TC3 was the most successful touring car of all time - undisputed, yet it always had a tub chassis when it won big races.

I'm a Yokomo man myself and hope Yoke come up with a tub chassis for their BD car. In the meantime I've done my own, taking the best of both.

Have a look. Hope to finish it soon.
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Old 04-18-2005, 10:02 AM   #4023
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ALL cars have thier own unique characteristics. In some cases what works with one will not work on another like the TC3 and TC4. It all boils down to getting to know your car. And I agree that just changing a chassis from a factory unit to an aftermarket unit is not the so called cure all as stated by some. When you have slop in your suspension an aftermarket chassis wont fix that however shims will and I dont realy have a problem with having to shim to get it right but I bet in the future associated will have that issue resolved. And a aftermarket chassis wont fix the fact that some cars have a different feel to them and will suit some drivers style of driving better then others. This is why I dont believe in copying another drivers setup and expecting it to work. yes it's good to listen to others to see what types of adjustments will work and how they affect your car but YOU need to test and expierement to see what works and what doesnt. It's funny how many monkey see monkey do racers there are and all they do is use someone elses setups and dont take the time to work with the car and then complain when they are slow and do nothing but blame the car.
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Old 04-18-2005, 10:58 AM   #4024
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While I have only been driving touring cars about 8 months now I would have to agree and I see alot of newer guys blaming their cars for their lack of driving skills. All my cars are set up as well as I can get them and have used some of the recommended set-ups but like it was said every driver has their own technique for driving. With that in mind I continue to tweak and fine tune any set-ups I start with. I have the best luck it seems with my TC3/4, T-Spec and now my Barracuda R3. I have driven some other touring cars but these are suited to my driving the best. They all have a decent set-up now and it is me holding up my cars! A lighter chassis or less flex will only help you if need an extra second to help you to win. I was helping out a new guy this weekend who running in novice with a RTR TC4 is asking me about his pinion that won't touch his spur. I look at the motor and it's a 9T! Besides having the wrong pinion for that motor he took out the RTR 15T motor. Any whoo after finding out how many parts he had broken so far I highly suggested he put the RTR motor back in and save the 9T for a bit. Then proceeded to show him how to adjust the motor cam to mesh properly. It took me a while to realize sometime slowers is faster! Getting back to the chassis I considered a BMI or other chassis but would it really make me quicker my answer is no right now maybe at some point but right now I need to keep tuning my driving. For those of you that it may benifit then go for it!
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Old 04-18-2005, 11:49 AM   #4025
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number 1,i did not just make the chassis more rigid,number 2,yes BMI or any other company can fix the mass of problems associated with the tc4.all you need to do is correct the mistakes that were made during the design of the car.the stock tub works fine being that it is flexible.it relies on the flex to cover up the mistakes made in the steering geometry and gets it to turn.stiffen that same chassis up and see what happens.it pushes like a dog.there were many changes made to my chassis kit that you will probably never see.but YES,it does correct alot of the problems with the car.it doesnt cure everything but it does address the issues with the stock tub.if you get the car set up right,it will improve your lap times.no questions asked.if you stiffen a car up and make the suspension work and keep your traction,your car is faster.if you cant get the car to hook up then you need to resort to flex.problem with that is it is inconsistant.no chassis will flex the same every time which will make your car not as consistant.if you are happy with your stock tub,more power to ya,but i would like to see a little more support for an option tool that can help you.i have never released anything that didnt work.i do alot of research and testing when doing these kits.the tc4 was very tough to do because there was alot that needed to change but i am doing my best to put out something to help you guys at the most inexpensive price possible..
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Old 04-18-2005, 12:08 PM   #4026
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well my first time out with my tc4 (i had not driven on-road in two years) i was racing against x-rays and tamiya 415's and came in third place.first place was a losi,second was another tc4....pretty much the rest of the field was made up of the x-rays and tamiyas so i would say the tc4 is a good car...the only thing i put on my car was ti-turnbuckles and a one-way. everything else is stock.
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Old 04-18-2005, 03:30 PM   #4027
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now try making the car rigid with a top deck or increased bracing.you will see the problems with the car and why i had to change so much on it.flex hides alot of imperfections.
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Old 04-18-2005, 04:30 PM   #4028
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Default I'm sure your right Jason, but....

to me the BMI still flexes as much as the stock molded graphite one. What were your numbers on the testing? Its great you fixed some of the other problems, just wish AE would do the same because I like the idea of the tub chassis. I would try a BMI TC4 chassis if it was as stiff as your TC3 one. ANY differences in a left to right flex will steer me away in which it did in this case. You do great work, but I think more R&D needs to be done by AE. What do you think would improve the TC4 after a BMI chassis fix? You say a stiffer chassis shows more imperfections in the car design and if the BMI is stiffer what problems do you seen now? I would like to see a TC3 with the TC4 toe blocks, motor mount, input cup brace and steering rack. That would be my fix? Everyone here seems to assume AE will fix suff, but you don't read a thing about it. That's my problem if AE no communication. The have their head in the sand and they don't get it.

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Old 04-18-2005, 05:22 PM   #4029
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check out....

http://www.3racing.com.hk/

and go to to the Associated page... lots of answers await..
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Old 04-18-2005, 05:36 PM   #4030
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I have the aluminum steering rack, works awesome, also have the aluminum rear hub carriers, haven't tried them out yet. Also have 3Racing bumper coming.

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Old 04-18-2005, 05:51 PM   #4031
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it is almost imposible to make the tc4 exact even flex using the stock motor mount.the difference in flex on my chassis was a 49%51% left to right under load.when i stiffened the chassis i had to find a new home for the steering rack to correct the ackerman thoughout the full turning radius.that was the biggest improvement.then i moved the batteries forward and more inboard than stock.moving them forward a bit toned the car down through the corner and smoothed it out.this proved to increase the corner speed.stiffening the chassis and making it symetrical was also very important.it allowed for less speed reduction in the corner due to the flex and eliminated the chassis scrub on only 1 side.and as for the stock tub,how do you figure that the stock tub flexes evenly.if you look closely it was only narrowed on the battery side.it is not even close to even.if i remember correctly it was at a 41%/59%.
look,im not here to argue.i am just seeing some things posted here that are really a good kick in the head.when i see someone post that they are sick of seeing people post that my chassis cures the cars problems,yeah it pisses me off.if some one likes the way my kit works for them,let them enjoy it.these are not my sponsored drivers,they are happy customers.if you dont like my products,dont buy them.dont snap at the happy customers.
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Old 04-18-2005, 05:53 PM   #4032
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Default Don't think a slug of hop up parts will...

fix anything. Only thing I may be interested in would be the Ti shaft or the toe blocks. They look lighter. I would be more interested in reading that AE has some future plans for a new stiffer chassis, improved ackerman or changes made to the suspension geometry. I do like this car, but I want know they are working on it.

Jason the TC3 is a stiffer car than the TC4. What made the TC3 better?
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Old 04-18-2005, 05:56 PM   #4033
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how much are bmi tc4 chassis's i have not seen them on the website.
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Old 04-18-2005, 05:59 PM   #4034
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my tc3 chassis was made from 3mm c/f.the tc4 is made from 2.5mm.right now i am having special c/f made for me that is 2x the rigidty of my c/f i am using now.i will be testing it when my panels come in.i hope it works out because its 3x the price.
this 2.5 should be the equivelent of 3.5 of other brands and 3mm that i use now.
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Old 04-18-2005, 05:59 PM   #4035
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Quote:
Originally posted by protc3
it is almost imposible to make the tc4 exact even flex using the stock motor mount.the difference in flex on my chassis was a 49%51% left to right under load.when i stiffened the chassis i had to find a new home for the steering rack to correct the ackerman thoughout the full turning radius.that was the biggest improvement.then i moved the batteries forward and more inboard than stock.moving them forward a bit toned the car down through the corner and smoothed it out.this proved to increase the corner speed.stiffening the chassis and making it symetrical was also very important.it allowed for less speed reduction in the corner due to the flex and eliminated the chassis scrub on only 1 side.and as for the stock tub,how do you figure that the stock tub flexes evenly.if you look closely it was only narrowed on the battery side.it is not even close to even.if i remember correctly it was at a 41%/59%.
look,im not here to argue.i am just seeing some things posted here that are really a good kick in the head.when i see someone post that they are sick of seeing people post that my chassis cures the cars problems,yeah it pisses me off.if some one likes the way my kit works for them,let them enjoy it.these are not my sponsored drivers,they are happy customers.if you dont like my products,dont buy them.dont snap at the happy customers.
Thank You Jason!!!!!
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