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Old 01-25-2005, 08:20 AM   #2911
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Quote:
Originally posted by dr_hfuhuhurr
Stupid question but I can't remember and don't have the parts with me. AE pistons, what order are they in?

1 is softest or hardest?
Is 2 in the middle?
3 is softest or hardest?
1=softest
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Old 01-25-2005, 09:07 AM   #2912
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Quote:
Originally posted by DerekB
Typical for what? Please don't lump magazine revies together. Read the TC4 review on our website or in the magazine and it addresses most of the complaints with the TC4.

The reason you see no "suck" reviews is that there are plenty of non-suck things to review and instead of focusing on the negative we try and put the hobby in a positive light. I couldn't imagine opening a magazine I was interested in and reading how everything sucks.

I can tell you I've refuse to review lots of things or offered it to not be printed. My reputation cost a lot more to buy than you may want to think. Are things sugar coated a little? Sure, but if you read and can put a few sentences together you can see most complaints.

While sometimes I go more than a month without racing a particular class I consider myself a well above average racer, but unlike most people I have to race a different car and different classes every month. It would be nice to focus on one car for a year, but that can't happen.

Also, I've thought about this plenty of time because I know a few magazine guys who stink at racing. But if a car makes them better isn't that a valid opinion. In fact if it makes the sucky guy better that's better information than how good a driver is. I know that Kinwald can make a bad car look good, but if a car makes the sucky driver look better that more machine than driver.

Over at XRC we all race and come from a racing background. Even our art guys race. Are we going to be better at one class than another? Who isn't? But I think people that do this for a living have a bigger vested stake at what they write or if they are a driver how or what they race.
Not really the place to discuss it - I'd rather buy you a beer and talk about it that way! Hero's in Claremont, if you want, on me!

Anyway -

A: I wasn't mentioning any mag, and specifically didn't mention XRC. XRC is probably the best of the mags. (I only say probably since I'm not omniscient and there MAY be an RC mag out there in timbuktu that is better, but I don't know about it!)

B: BUT - you still don't rate anything less than a 5 or 6. I see a LOT of 8's and 9's overall. When I see X-Play (It's GAME TIME) and see them use the ENTIRE rating range (1 to 5), it gives a LOT of credibility to their higher ratings. . .a 5 really means 5. Offering to NOT print a review means that you're not communicating the BAD to us, only the decent or better. I would very much like to read a bad review now and again - it would do quite a few things for your magazine, including add credibility.

Anyway - sorry to digress on the TC4 thread.
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Old 01-25-2005, 10:13 AM   #2913
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Quote:
Originally posted by Boomer
Not really the place to discuss it - I'd rather buy you a beer and talk about it that way! Hero's in Claremont, if you want, on me!

Anyway -

A: I wasn't mentioning any mag, and specifically didn't mention XRC. XRC is probably the best of the mags. (I only say probably since I'm not omniscient and there MAY be an RC mag out there in timbuktu that is better, but I don't know about it!)

B: BUT - you still don't rate anything less than a 5 or 6. I see a LOT of 8's and 9's overall. When I see X-Play (It's GAME TIME) and see them use the ENTIRE rating range (1 to 5), it gives a LOT of credibility to their higher ratings. . .a 5 really means 5. Offering to NOT print a review means that you're not communicating the BAD to us, only the decent or better. I would very much like to read a bad review now and again - it would do quite a few things for your magazine, including add credibility.

Anyway - sorry to digress on the TC4 thread.
Beer would be good. But it's all a matter of perspective. To a racer, everything sucks. To a guy that just bought his first RC car it may not. It's very difficult to balance that line of "everything is a racecar" to normal stuff.

Hero's is a cool place went there once.
But unlike the video game industry where there are games that really really suck. I can't say that for most things in RC.
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Old 01-25-2005, 11:00 AM   #2914
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Let me know! Just about any time - and Hero's has many good good beers!

I think that we can each come up with at least 5-10 kits/products that genuinely suck.

I worked for CEN for a short time (thank goodness) and know for a fact that there ARE very poor kits and RTR's out there.

Most things don't completely suck in RC, but the fit and finish of the TC4 does NOT rate a 10. . .7, maybe, at best - my expectations are high, now, so I would give it a 5. But the slop and immediate replacement of arms by AE means that the 10 (not by you. . .) demeans the magazine's credibility.
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Old 01-25-2005, 11:46 AM   #2915
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there are 2 ways to look at it, neither are right or wrong, this has been a topic among the local racers i deal with in the past....

#1 MOST reviews (any industry) point out the positive aspects of a product, and generally state any weakness or state it as a place for improvement in the future.

#2 remember magazines make a significant portion of their profits from companies like AE for example..it cost AE a pretty penny to take out 2,3,4 whole pages of advertising, if you post a bad enough review, you lose that cash, not that this sways the review (in most cases the reviewer not biased by this) BUT it does affect how the review is worded...in which case see statement #1

just my 2c
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Old 01-25-2005, 02:03 PM   #2916
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Default HI EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm trying to figure wich car I'll buy, TC4/PRO4..?
It's really hard coz the 2 cars are really great but....I have some questions to ask you if you may answer them it will help me a great deal!!

-Is the TC4 drivetrain is very FREE out of the box or do you need to work on it a lot before it becomes nice and smooth/free?

-I know the PRO4 has a very efficient drive train and its very QUIET, is the TC4 LOUD?

I really like the price of the TC4 but I know the materials and the way the parts fits in when building the PRO4 is also worth the price.
TC4 has some kind of "cheapy" look....very "plastic"......

THANK YOU FOR ANSWERING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 01-25-2005, 02:16 PM   #2917
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Hmmm look at Team Associateds performance in the latest big races. Barry did quite well with his TC3...Im a little disapointed in how the New car is doing. Barry is a great driver and cant see this as his skillz dimenishing. I wont get a Tc4 unless I see some improvement against the competition
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Old 01-25-2005, 03:05 PM   #2918
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Default INTERNAL DRIVE RATIO???

Could you give me the final drive ratio...is 2.2 or 2.3...can't remember and I have to get those pinions with my kit

Is 48 pitch?


THX!
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Old 01-25-2005, 03:06 PM   #2919
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Internal ratio is 2.5.

Kit comes with 48p spur.
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Old 01-25-2005, 03:38 PM   #2920
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Quote:
Originally posted by GTIRACER
Hmmm look at Team Associateds performance in the latest big races. Barry did quite well with his TC3...Im a little disapointed in how the New car is doing. Barry is a great driver and cant see this as his skillz dimenishing. I wont get a Tc4 unless I see some improvement against the competition
Well, its a new car, will need a little more time to find those small adjustment on the setups to get it just right, also, the drivers might have had a bad day? you cant judge a car just after a certain drivers result, there are many factors playing in. if thats so, would you say that the xray fk is a bad car just because non of them made the a at the worlds? (juho levanen made the a with his TC4)
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Old 01-25-2005, 04:03 PM   #2921
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Breed,

I feel that the new car is very solid.

I'm just in the process of figuring out a good baseline to work from

I think that there is a foundational problem with the TC4 - we're all so used to a car that doesn't have very many adjustments that we're all going nuts with the vast numbers of things we can now do to totally screw the car up!

Of course, that's also one of the very good things about it, too, once we get it really figured out. . .
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Old 01-25-2005, 04:25 PM   #2922
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At least assosiated wasnt afraid to release the car. They are not only letting thier factory drivers race it to get feedback but by releasing it in the early stages they are getting feedback from the club racers along with the factory drivers on what works as far as set ups go and what they need to do to make it better. Remember back when the TC3 was introduced it was basicly offered in a racer kit and a team kit initialy no carbon kits no threaded shocks no droop screws to set the droop you had to shim the shocks. But it wasnt long and they had a whole bunch of factory team options and eventualy a factory team kit that made it a very race worthy piece and the results speak for themselves.

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Old 01-25-2005, 05:03 PM   #2923
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TC4 is what 2 out of the 3 top people in stock foam class drive at my local track. One of the TC4's is all stock besides having a sway bar. Then comes a 415. They all seem to go back and forth as far as who wins each week.

Honestly I think the driver makes the car good and not the car makes the driver good...

I have a TC4 and I let 2 of these guys drive my car and they were able to come within .2-.3 sec's of there times... This is about 1/2 sec a lap better then my best lap time.

If you set a car up right and drive clean and consistent I think for the most part you should be able to compete and do well with any of the higher end cars (tc4, x-ray, 415, etc.)

So I think if the top drivers at our track had different cars they would still be the top drivers... I am nowhere near as consistent and smooth as them. So maybe someday when I am a better driver my view may change on this but for now I am going to stick with the fact that it's the driver and not the car theory...

But as far as the TC4 being a good car I would have to say YES. I think it will compete with anything out there in the right drivers hands.
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Old 01-25-2005, 06:39 PM   #2924
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Tbevofreak - I can comment on the two cars you mentioned because I own them both. The Pro4 is prettier and does go together well. Both drivetrains are very free if built correctly. I little bearing prep helps. My initial impressions of both on asphalt. The Pro4 had great acceleration and a lot of steering...way too much. The car felt very twitchy. Depending on your style, you'll need to work on that to make it driveable. I raced it once in ProStock and won, but I had to fight the car around the track. My TC4 didn't have the build problems that others have complained about (lucky I guess). The car went together well and with just a minor tweak, the car was dialed. I think the car has two issues (especially if you run stock). One - it's a little heavy compared to the other cars out there. And two - the steering has a little slop to it. There's a tweak for the steering posted in this thread. There are a number of things you can do to save weight. I'm not going to try to list them here, but I will make one last comment about car. I raced 19T with two friends in practice last weekend who have run XRAYs for the last 8 months or so and I used a TC4 that I had only run once. I was using a motor with no maint, a REAL weak practice battery and really old tires with no sauce. The car was basically bone stock. Only change is losi rear hubs to remove some toe in. I had no speed and was still running times comparable to both guys. The car was consistent, stable, easy to drive (fun to drive. I actually let out a yell on the drivers stand cause the car felt so good). If I had to choose between both cars right now...I honestly would choose the TC4. I think it's a great car. It's just a matter of spending some time with (like any car) to find out what it likes. i don't think you'll be dissapointed with either though. Just my opinion
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Old 01-25-2005, 07:13 PM   #2925
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TC4, straight out of the box... with bearings cleaned of the vaseline or whatever they call it in them, and seals removed from 1 side.. As quiet as any belt drive car at our track (with a rather large 28T 48pitch pinion..) this was the first time I ran the car. A smaller pinion will not mesh as well, but with care it can also be very quiet. I can tell you I was amazed at how quiet it was and some others at the track commented as to how quiet my car was. Its not as quiet now, as I have gone to a smaller pinion and may not have the mesh just perfect. The 28T pinion caused so much heat in the motor, it burned out the reverse and brakes of my 15 yr old Futaba speed control, but she sure was quick!! (MVP Plus stock motor)

BTW this was the first run of this car, and the first RC car I have built in over 15 yrs (well not counting the tamiya mini I built in Nov, that is real noisey +)

I did nothing besides the bearings that wasn't in the instructions.

Mine is easily as quiet or quieter than the PRO-4 a friend runs, who is much more experienced than I.

PRO-4 does come with a lot more bling, and is more tuneable out of the box. Lets not forget it costs more as well.

Noise can come from a poor pinion/spur mesh, I really don't think you can't compare 'noise' between 2 shaft driven, race quality cars, it comes down to the care and attention paid by the builder or user.

As far as performance... I am a newb and have alot to learn about driving, but I found the car to be pushy at higher speeds, and to have too much steering at low speeds (i built it with 2 deg caster blocks), other than that stock setup.


TBEvo.. you will be happy with either car... check your local track and hobby shops and find which car is better supported and BUY it, you won't be sorry.
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