16LikesSerpent S411
11-02-2011, 12:02 AM
#1561
this car is doing my head in with the array of 'options parts'.
There are Medium & Hard arms. There are also the original arms from the very first kits, and according to the manual part# they are neither medium or hard.
So what exactly are the original arms from the first gen kits?
having said that, I would think the hardness of the arms to play an insignificant role in handling discrepancies, although I could be wrong!
There are Medium & Hard arms. There are also the original arms from the very first kits, and according to the manual part# they are neither medium or hard.
So what exactly are the original arms from the first gen kits?
having said that, I would think the hardness of the arms to play an insignificant role in handling discrepancies, although I could be wrong!
i havent tryed the medium arms only the hard and soft. and my experience is that the car becomes more stable with the hard arms without losing to much grip.
steven
11-02-2011, 08:41 AM
#1562
Yes I think it help with the wear and probably cheaper to buy the delrin for maintenance purposes.
11-02-2011, 08:44 AM
#1563
I had same issue as well, Loose on power with the book setup. Biggest difference for me was to use 5mm in front of the rear suspension. I know some folks here used 4mm as well. I also added a bit more droop in the front.
I was running on a parking lot track, med grip with sugar water. Using 13.5 boosted and MM32 or Sorex32s.
I was running on a parking lot track, med grip with sugar water. Using 13.5 boosted and MM32 or Sorex32s.
well what i tought that made the biggest impact to lock up the rear end on-power out of corner was the 3,5 toe in block at rear, 1,2 sway bar at rear and extend the WB by 1mm shim at rear , i can nail it out of corner without the rear end over rotating
ohh and i'm running the 2,25mm chassis and top plate.
ohh and i'm running the 2,25mm chassis and top plate.
11-02-2011, 08:56 AM
#1564
Tech Adept
Well i do have something to admit, apparently i have missed the post where it was saying it was about asphalt setup(i have never tried the S411 on asphalt) and not carpet witch i am driving on. So i have given out wrong setup advise info here as i tought it was about carpet setup
Sorry guy's
Sorry guy's
11-02-2011, 01:09 PM
#1566
Gear diff tuning info
This is a must read, if you don't go thru the other forums, this is the best description I have ever read about gear diffs. Its by Artwork in the 417 forum.
"Typically the slower the motor the thinner the oil, but if the car is loose then I would suggest thicker oil. In mod and 17.5 timing I personally like 1000, but in 17.5 no timing I like 80wt shock oil or 700 cst oil. The thinner the oil the more the car can rotate. Thicker rear oil will decrease rear rotation.
If you need to run 2000 or thicker with 17.5 to stabilize the car then something else in setup needs to be fixed. The team drivers setups seems to work very well on the correct surface. On carpet I run something very close to Jilles snowbirds setup. Outside I would run Marc's Reedy setup. There is no need to go at this alone and try to develop your own setup. There are plenty out there that you can use as a base setup."
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"Typically the slower the motor the thinner the oil, but if the car is loose then I would suggest thicker oil. In mod and 17.5 timing I personally like 1000, but in 17.5 no timing I like 80wt shock oil or 700 cst oil. The thinner the oil the more the car can rotate. Thicker rear oil will decrease rear rotation.
If you need to run 2000 or thicker with 17.5 to stabilize the car then something else in setup needs to be fixed. The team drivers setups seems to work very well on the correct surface. On carpet I run something very close to Jilles snowbirds setup. Outside I would run Marc's Reedy setup. There is no need to go at this alone and try to develop your own setup. There are plenty out there that you can use as a base setup."
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11-02-2011, 02:01 PM
#1567
I do not own a serpent, but I have run dual gear diffs in my cars with good success. Really the issue of running a gear diff both front and rear is really a matter for driving characteristics and aggressiveness of the car. What are you trying to fix by running a gear diff in the front and additionally what is the problem?
People have begun experimenting with gear diffs in the front of their touring cars to find the right compromise. Why you ask because there are attributes of both a ball diff and a spool that people want. A ball diff in the front will help the car initiate a turn better, but tends to push coming out. A spool (or locked diff) pushes initiating a turn but pulls the car out of any corner. A gear diff with the right substance can turn in very well and can still pull like a spool coming out. It is the ultimate compromise. I use the word compromise because that is what a gear diff in the front provides.
Ball diffs tend to be a lot of maintenance and now that the materials are light enough and still strong enough to provide an almost no maintenance solution even in the front of a touring car.
So when you think about gear diff oil/putty in the front you have to understand how you would like the car to react. If you are on a tight track that requires a lot of steering then running lighter oil in the front will help. I would suggest 300,000 CST. If you are on a track that is very high speed and flowing then a putty would be best. If you are on a mixed track then 500,000 cst might be the ticket. Keep this in mind...the lighter the front oil the more it is acting like a ball diff (front wheels turning at different speeds) and the heavier the oil/putty the more it is acting like a spool (front wheels turning at the same speed). The key is to adjust your driving to accommodate each of these options to get the most out of each of them. The gear diff with 500,000 cst will provide the most neutral option, and will probably be good on most tracks. TO get more turn in go lighter and to keep higher speeds go heavier.
Also keep in mind some cars need more aggressiveness then others, if I was running an Xray I would be running 300,000 cst in a gear diff in the front. If I was driving a Tamiya I would be running either a spool or a gear diff with putty. Since I have read that the Serpent S411 is somewhere in the middle of these two cars (as far as aggressiveness) I would try a gear diff in the front with 500,000 cst.
Hope this helps
People have begun experimenting with gear diffs in the front of their touring cars to find the right compromise. Why you ask because there are attributes of both a ball diff and a spool that people want. A ball diff in the front will help the car initiate a turn better, but tends to push coming out. A spool (or locked diff) pushes initiating a turn but pulls the car out of any corner. A gear diff with the right substance can turn in very well and can still pull like a spool coming out. It is the ultimate compromise. I use the word compromise because that is what a gear diff in the front provides.
Ball diffs tend to be a lot of maintenance and now that the materials are light enough and still strong enough to provide an almost no maintenance solution even in the front of a touring car.
So when you think about gear diff oil/putty in the front you have to understand how you would like the car to react. If you are on a tight track that requires a lot of steering then running lighter oil in the front will help. I would suggest 300,000 CST. If you are on a track that is very high speed and flowing then a putty would be best. If you are on a mixed track then 500,000 cst might be the ticket. Keep this in mind...the lighter the front oil the more it is acting like a ball diff (front wheels turning at different speeds) and the heavier the oil/putty the more it is acting like a spool (front wheels turning at the same speed). The key is to adjust your driving to accommodate each of these options to get the most out of each of them. The gear diff with 500,000 cst will provide the most neutral option, and will probably be good on most tracks. TO get more turn in go lighter and to keep higher speeds go heavier.
Also keep in mind some cars need more aggressiveness then others, if I was running an Xray I would be running 300,000 cst in a gear diff in the front. If I was driving a Tamiya I would be running either a spool or a gear diff with putty. Since I have read that the Serpent S411 is somewhere in the middle of these two cars (as far as aggressiveness) I would try a gear diff in the front with 500,000 cst.
Hope this helps
11-02-2011, 02:14 PM
#1568
Thanks Art.
Do you have any thoughts on internal 2 gear versus 4 gear and the needs or wants of oil thickness?
Thanks for the above as well, awesome observations and well stated.
Thanks for the above as well, awesome observations and well stated.
11-02-2011, 02:22 PM
#1569
500,000 cst with only two gears may feel more like 350,000, but only testing would be able to verify that.
11-03-2011, 05:42 AM
#1570
Its strange to read that people say the car "is loose in the rear" mine with kit set up on has to much rear grip, i wonder if there is something else affecting the car, the reason i say that is a friend of mine bought one also and ran it and he couldnt do a lap with it, it would spin out and was crap, yet mine is prob the best car i have owned.
Food for thought, but like i said its the best car i have owned.
Rhys
Food for thought, but like i said its the best car i have owned.
Rhys
11-03-2011, 06:41 AM
#1571
Its strange to read that people say the car "is loose in the rear" mine with kit set up on has to much rear grip, i wonder if there is something else affecting the car, the reason i say that is a friend of mine bought one also and ran it and he couldnt do a lap with it, it would spin out and was crap, yet mine is prob the best car i have owned.
Food for thought, but like i said its the best car i have owned.
Rhys
Food for thought, but like i said its the best car i have owned.
Rhys
11-03-2011, 06:49 AM
#1572
ok, im about to place my order for the kit and a new mt-4
to avoid having to place any additional orders, would anyone happen to have a list of shims i might need..for example shims to remove play from wheels and hubs, shims for the gears etc..
Thanks guys, you have given tons of help during my research before buying.
to avoid having to place any additional orders, would anyone happen to have a list of shims i might need..for example shims to remove play from wheels and hubs, shims for the gears etc..
Thanks guys, you have given tons of help during my research before buying.
11-03-2011, 07:18 AM
#1573
My S411 did not need any shimming (unlike my Ta05 or 416 cars haha always had to buy a pack of shims for those). All the plastics fit nice and snug. Take car to build the sway bars with even lift of the arms.
I did buy some 1mm and 2mm shims to adjust camber, and obvious spare parts for accidents but thats it.
I did buy some 1mm and 2mm shims to adjust camber, and obvious spare parts for accidents but thats it.
ok, im about to place my order for the kit and a new mt-4
to avoid having to place any additional orders, would anyone happen to have a list of shims i might need..for example shims to remove play from wheels and hubs, shims for the gears etc..
Thanks guys, you have given tons of help during my research before buying.
to avoid having to place any additional orders, would anyone happen to have a list of shims i might need..for example shims to remove play from wheels and hubs, shims for the gears etc..
Thanks guys, you have given tons of help during my research before buying.
11-03-2011, 07:29 AM
#1574
So how would the S411 Hard arms compare to a Tamiya arm in term of stiffness? Not sure if I should get Med or Hard. I really don't like te flex of the soft kit arms on carpet. Asphalt kit arms were fine.
the arms that came with the first kits was all plastic and therefore very soft, the medium arms have 15% carbon in them, and the hard arms have 30% carbon.
i havent tryed the medium arms only the hard and soft. and my experience is that the car becomes more stable with the hard arms without losing to much grip.
steven
i havent tryed the medium arms only the hard and soft. and my experience is that the car becomes more stable with the hard arms without losing to much grip.
steven
11-03-2011, 08:16 AM
#1575
I started my build yesterday. So far, it seems fantastic. The car builds up very similar to a 417, except the quality is more like XRay. I'm super impressed so far. I own both those other cars, and it feels like someone took the best ideas from each and combined them into this ride.
The sway bar centering piece is rubbing a bit on the cross brace and preventing smooth movement. You guys doing anything to prevent that?
Man, I missed cars that don't look like clown shoes with all the funky colors everywhere. The gun metal look is a throwback to the old days, and it's beautiful.
The sway bar centering piece is rubbing a bit on the cross brace and preventing smooth movement. You guys doing anything to prevent that?
Man, I missed cars that don't look like clown shoes with all the funky colors everywhere. The gun metal look is a throwback to the old days, and it's beautiful.