Serpent S411
#5926
Hi everyone,
I noticed this long time ago, but don't know why I didnt ask before. In 411 front upper camberlink, outer pivotball is touching the plastic rod end while compressing, so it has a feeling like upstop, a rather soft one when suspension compresses, when I use the standart pivotball above the casterblock. This is also the case for the outer steering link ball, where we install on steering block. The problem is that they dont have enough working angle. When I install big parts instead of std from my nitro car problem goes away, but the strange thing is, it changes how the car reacts, and I kinda like the car more when suspension binds with small pillow balls. With very free front suspension, I think I have way too much front grip compared to rear. I even tried free suspension links with upstop shims inside the front shocks, and it was close to having std pivotballs.
If I shouldnt have any binding, then I have a serious car setup problem that every race I have massive oversteer with the car. Last weekend I used a lot of front upstop to have a drivable car!
I noticed this long time ago, but don't know why I didnt ask before. In 411 front upper camberlink, outer pivotball is touching the plastic rod end while compressing, so it has a feeling like upstop, a rather soft one when suspension compresses, when I use the standart pivotball above the casterblock. This is also the case for the outer steering link ball, where we install on steering block. The problem is that they dont have enough working angle. When I install big parts instead of std from my nitro car problem goes away, but the strange thing is, it changes how the car reacts, and I kinda like the car more when suspension binds with small pillow balls. With very free front suspension, I think I have way too much front grip compared to rear. I even tried free suspension links with upstop shims inside the front shocks, and it was close to having std pivotballs.
If I shouldnt have any binding, then I have a serious car setup problem that every race I have massive oversteer with the car. Last weekend I used a lot of front upstop to have a drivable car!
#5927
Hi everyone,
I noticed this long time ago, but don't know why I didnt ask before. In 411 front upper camberlink, outer pivotball is touching the plastic rod end while compressing, so it has a feeling like upstop, a rather soft one when suspension compresses, when I use the standart pivotball above the casterblock. This is also the case for the outer steering link ball, where we install on steering block. The problem is that they dont have enough working angle. When I install big parts instead of std from my nitro car problem goes away, but the strange thing is, it changes how the car reacts, and I kinda like the car more when suspension binds with small pillow balls. With very free front suspension, I think I have way too much front grip compared to rear. I even tried free suspension links with upstop shims inside the front shocks, and it was close to having std pivotballs.
If I shouldnt have any binding, then I have a serious car setup problem that every race I have massive oversteer with the car. Last weekend I used a lot of front upstop to have a drivable car!
I noticed this long time ago, but don't know why I didnt ask before. In 411 front upper camberlink, outer pivotball is touching the plastic rod end while compressing, so it has a feeling like upstop, a rather soft one when suspension compresses, when I use the standart pivotball above the casterblock. This is also the case for the outer steering link ball, where we install on steering block. The problem is that they dont have enough working angle. When I install big parts instead of std from my nitro car problem goes away, but the strange thing is, it changes how the car reacts, and I kinda like the car more when suspension binds with small pillow balls. With very free front suspension, I think I have way too much front grip compared to rear. I even tried free suspension links with upstop shims inside the front shocks, and it was close to having std pivotballs.
If I shouldnt have any binding, then I have a serious car setup problem that every race I have massive oversteer with the car. Last weekend I used a lot of front upstop to have a drivable car!
I've found the same rubbing problem myself too but as long as you don't put too much shim under the outer upper camber link, you should not have that problem, if I understood your remarks correctly. I don't know if my car still does it but I found the inner surface of tire wheels having a very distinct black scuff mark from the upper links in the past so I removed a few mm of shims under the upper link and problem resolved. I hope you will resolve yours soon. Good luck.
#5928
Tech Adept
iTrader: (6)
I went to look in my boxes to find the dremelled plate to take a photo. I guess it went with one of the cars that I have sold. I took a one of the tools in the box that are 3 mm wide and put a pencil mark in the plate and dremelled a 4mm wide and 2 mm deep concave mark in the plate. I did not need to raise the servo mount in the way you have done.
cheers,
#5929
Today I have tried Part of the ideas that whityboy used in this setup, mainly I have remove the rear roll center spacers and thanks to that now I'm able to drive the ltcr in my track.
Most of the drivers in the track use the ltcr but for me it has been always too lose so I've been using the mazda 6 for ages and in teh last month I've been working on trying setup changes to use the ltcr, and today using some of his comments I found 3 tenths per lap using that and the LTCR.
Thanks, as always this thread is wonderfull I have used tons of ideas from here.
javier
#5930
Tech Champion
iTrader: (44)
Heres one for sale guys. Great car just getting ready for indoor offroad.
http://www.rctech.net/forum/r-c-item...ew-extras.html
http://www.rctech.net/forum/r-c-item...ew-extras.html
#5931
Hi everyone,
I noticed this long time ago, but don't know why I didnt ask before. In 411 front upper camberlink, outer pivotball is touching the plastic rod end while compressing, so it has a feeling like upstop, a rather soft one when suspension compresses, when I use the standart pivotball above the casterblock. This is also the case for the outer steering link ball, where we install on steering block. The problem is that they dont have enough working angle. When I install big parts instead of std from my nitro car problem goes away, but the strange thing is, it changes how the car reacts, and I kinda like the car more when suspension binds with small pillow balls. With very free front suspension, I think I have way too much front grip compared to rear. I even tried free suspension links with upstop shims inside the front shocks, and it was close to having std pivotballs.
If I shouldnt have any binding, then I have a serious car setup problem that every race I have massive oversteer with the car. Last weekend I used a lot of front upstop to have a drivable car!
I noticed this long time ago, but don't know why I didnt ask before. In 411 front upper camberlink, outer pivotball is touching the plastic rod end while compressing, so it has a feeling like upstop, a rather soft one when suspension compresses, when I use the standart pivotball above the casterblock. This is also the case for the outer steering link ball, where we install on steering block. The problem is that they dont have enough working angle. When I install big parts instead of std from my nitro car problem goes away, but the strange thing is, it changes how the car reacts, and I kinda like the car more when suspension binds with small pillow balls. With very free front suspension, I think I have way too much front grip compared to rear. I even tried free suspension links with upstop shims inside the front shocks, and it was close to having std pivotballs.
If I shouldnt have any binding, then I have a serious car setup problem that every race I have massive oversteer with the car. Last weekend I used a lot of front upstop to have a drivable car!
I know some dudes here love this car but to me Eryx is not for me. So many problems(servo savor, torque steer, shock leakage, steering rack,etc..) that I needed to fix by myself. Well if you say "hey that's the beauty of working on an RC car" or "that's because you don't know enough!", I would have nothing to say to that. But the car is not set-up capable on outdoor asphalt track especially. No matter what I do, the car always loose rear grip or would not turn depending on the set up. I followed the set up sheets of many famous people. Some made the car non responsive to steering input and some others made the car really loose in the rear. I have a whole set of front and rear sway bar, whole set of serpent springs, different tires, and oils. And trust me, I have tried so many combo that I don't even remember what I've tried. None of them seemed to work perfectly either on outdoor asphalt or on carpet. At this point, I've sort of given up on this car that I'm thinking of making this as a VTA car. Hopefully slower speed would make things better, or flaws concealed I should say.
I've found the same rubbing problem myself too but as long as you don't put too much shim under the outer upper camber link, you should not have that problem, if I understood your remarks correctly. I don't know if my car still does it but I found the inner surface of tire wheels having a very distinct black scuff mark from the upper links in the past so I removed a few mm of shims under the upper link and problem resolved. I hope you will resolve yours soon. Good luck.
I've found the same rubbing problem myself too but as long as you don't put too much shim under the outer upper camber link, you should not have that problem, if I understood your remarks correctly. I don't know if my car still does it but I found the inner surface of tire wheels having a very distinct black scuff mark from the upper links in the past so I removed a few mm of shims under the upper link and problem resolved. I hope you will resolve yours soon. Good luck.
Thank's for the tip.. I did not wanted to cut the extension plate but had no choice. Guess if you want to use the X-Ray servo saver, you have to cut the plate a little...No wonder they went with a different design on the servo holder with the new car...It works great now.
cheers,
cheers,
Hi there,
Today I have tried Part of the ideas that whityboy used in this setup, mainly I have remove the rear roll center spacers and thanks to that now I'm able to drive the ltcr in my track.
Most of the drivers in the track use the ltcr but for me it has been always too lose so I've been using the mazda 6 for ages and in teh last month I've been working on trying setup changes to use the ltcr, and today using some of his comments I found 3 tenths per lap using that and the LTCR.
Thanks, as always this thread is wonderfull I have used tons of ideas from here.
javier
Today I have tried Part of the ideas that whityboy used in this setup, mainly I have remove the rear roll center spacers and thanks to that now I'm able to drive the ltcr in my track.
Most of the drivers in the track use the ltcr but for me it has been always too lose so I've been using the mazda 6 for ages and in teh last month I've been working on trying setup changes to use the ltcr, and today using some of his comments I found 3 tenths per lap using that and the LTCR.
Thanks, as always this thread is wonderfull I have used tons of ideas from here.
javier
#5932
[QUOTE=Johnny Wishbone;12634163]
Posted setups are only information to get you close to that days racing. There is no universal setup thats good for every traction, surface and layout. Unless your sitting with the setup poster that day everything changes. We just completed two races (WCIC and IIC) and what I thought may be a good setup for IIC did not work as well as expected. What we ended up giving to the team for setup was like running a slot car on the track, unfortunately luck had other ideas for us, but the cars where very dialed.
QUOTE]
Hey The car actually worked pretty well as a VTA car in outdoor asphalt track. Yeah I was right about slower speed making things easier.
I agree with you 100% that there is no perfect set up. I didn't just copy somebody else's setup but tried my own's. So don't get me wrong.
I did some more study on the mechanisms of shocks and want to try softer shock spring in the rear since the car was lacking forward traction out of the corner and oversteering a bit. I don't think I need to change the shock oil since the car has plenty of steering in and out and pretty consistent.
Despite my comment I haven't really given up on this car yet and I'm planning to keep going with different set up.
Posted setups are only information to get you close to that days racing. There is no universal setup thats good for every traction, surface and layout. Unless your sitting with the setup poster that day everything changes. We just completed two races (WCIC and IIC) and what I thought may be a good setup for IIC did not work as well as expected. What we ended up giving to the team for setup was like running a slot car on the track, unfortunately luck had other ideas for us, but the cars where very dialed.
QUOTE]
Hey The car actually worked pretty well as a VTA car in outdoor asphalt track. Yeah I was right about slower speed making things easier.
I agree with you 100% that there is no perfect set up. I didn't just copy somebody else's setup but tried my own's. So don't get me wrong.
I did some more study on the mechanisms of shocks and want to try softer shock spring in the rear since the car was lacking forward traction out of the corner and oversteering a bit. I don't think I need to change the shock oil since the car has plenty of steering in and out and pretty consistent.
Despite my comment I haven't really given up on this car yet and I'm planning to keep going with different set up.
#5933
well i am building the new eryx and i am not impressed . as far as i can tell , i am going to have to dremel the shit out of the servo plate to get the clearance to use even the stock servo horn . nevermind trying to get a servo saver to fit . even if i use a 1 mm spacer in the servo horn , the screw head that mounts the ball on the end of the horn has a ton of interference with the plate . i have two 411 TE cars and i like them , but this new servo mounting system is utter crap . piss poor design is an understatement .
#5934
Tech Initiate
im building my firs s411 and i would like to know what you guys thing about using a servo savor or a regular servo horn and about what gears do you recommend for pinion and spur gear along with the type of pitch?
#5935
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
whats with servo saver
im only saying this because of what we have experienced
We have never run a servo saver on the serpent 411 and as we run one as a loan car to rookies it never been an issue. WE have used the standard arm that comes with the kit and we haven't failed one servo yet.
We do run metal gear servos 2 savox and 2 bluebirds and we have not failed any one of them in 3 years running in mod and me beating it up with my less than ordinary driving in 21.5 not to mention the beating the loan sport car gets( its yet to hit the pace car but that's only because we haven't got one}
we have had them both mounted /double sided contact and with the bracket in the eryx on it floating bracket
Mount it as good as your driving and all will be good iv got a box full of stuffed servo saver that have flop in them
Luv the ERYX
Alll the best andrew
We have never run a servo saver on the serpent 411 and as we run one as a loan car to rookies it never been an issue. WE have used the standard arm that comes with the kit and we haven't failed one servo yet.
We do run metal gear servos 2 savox and 2 bluebirds and we have not failed any one of them in 3 years running in mod and me beating it up with my less than ordinary driving in 21.5 not to mention the beating the loan sport car gets( its yet to hit the pace car but that's only because we haven't got one}
we have had them both mounted /double sided contact and with the bracket in the eryx on it floating bracket
Mount it as good as your driving and all will be good iv got a box full of stuffed servo saver that have flop in them
Luv the ERYX
Alll the best andrew
#5936
Tech Addict
Same for me as Andrew, I'm using the one right out of the box. As far a gearing goes I always go 64 pitch and I am currently running a 45 pinion with a 96 spur. We race on a basketball court size track that usually is pretty technical. Around here we shoot for a FDR of ~3.8 to ~4.5 depending on track layout.
#5939
well i am building the new eryx and i am not impressed . as far as i can tell , i am going to have to dremel the shit out of the servo plate to get the clearance to use even the stock servo horn . nevermind trying to get a servo saver to fit . even if i use a 1 mm spacer in the servo horn , the screw head that mounts the ball on the end of the horn has a ton of interference with the plate . i have two 411 TE cars and i like them , but this new servo mounting system is utter crap . piss poor design is an understatement .
The gears depend on if you run inside or outside, most prefer 64 pitch, but for outdoors I know a lot of racers use 48 pitch. Also some of the modified drivers use the 48 pitch due to tooth stress from the higher powered motors.
I started running a front diff at the IIC, (2.5 mil) but ended up using a spool, it just had better pull out of the corners and a little less aggressive feel going into the corner entry. Really the clock is the true determining factor in which is better to run. Speaking of spools, we measured the delron spool versus the aluminum spool with blades and the aluminum is slightly lighter, just have to watch the blades for breakage.
Last edited by Johnny Wishbone; 10-21-2013 at 01:07 PM.
#5940
well i am building the new eryx and i am not impressed . as far as i can tell , i am going to have to dremel the shit out of the servo plate to get the clearance to use even the stock servo horn . nevermind trying to get a servo saver to fit . even if i use a 1 mm spacer in the servo horn , the screw head that mounts the ball on the end of the horn has a ton of interference with the plate . i have two 411 TE cars and i like them , but this new servo mounting system is utter crap . piss poor design is an understatement .