R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-27-2014, 06:59 AM   #6256
Tech Elite
 
orcadigital's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 2,145
Trader Rating: 61 (100%+)
Default

I did manage to get the TC back out this weekend for a bigger race at our home track. I have not driven onroad since the end of November, and did not have high expectations going in, especially given my poor TC result in Nov.

Due to dust from the offroad track next to it, traction has been inconsistent, but with some heavy practice friday and saturday morning, it was fairly decent on line. Off line was terrible. I am still fairly close to the stock setup, with some notable differences. I am still running the 6 hole pistons, 40wt front, 35wt rear, 2.5 FF, and 1.5 RF blocks and RSD green and yellow springs. Went through several tire combinations, but ended up on Jaco Blues as usual. I did shift back to the V1 steering setup as my V2 has developed some crazy slop and have not had a chance to play with it. V2 motor mount, everything else is V1/LE.

First qual went well, a little off pace with a 10.5 best lap (fastest guys are 10.0/10.1) but with a .3 deviation. Was sitting third after the first heat. Second qual I got tangled in traffic a couple times, and for some reason kept cutting one corner too much and rolling from the "dot" (old plow discs we use to keep people off the pipes). I fell down to 4th. Third qual also went well, bettering my first qual time by a few seconds (less consistent, but faster overall) and went into the A in 4th.

Main started poorly, as TQ got off the line quickly, 5th shot past me running into 3rd and tangling up 2nd. Myself and the 7th place guy drove around the mayhem. An early mistake by the leader and I moved up to the lead, but gave it back a lap later, as I just did not have the pace to keep up. Maintained 2nd the rest of the race just keeping my nose clean. I had the slowest fast lap of the race, but the 2nd best deviation. Sometimes consistency matters more then speed.

Was a good showing for Serpent, with my S411 finishing 2nd in TC, my S100 getting TQ and 1st in WGT, and D-Man finishing 1st in 12th scale with his S120.
Attached Thumbnails
Serpent S411-dsc_4951.jpg  
__________________
Desoto Racing * Serpent America * Boca Bearings

"I was doing fine until about mid-corner when I ran out of talent."
orcadigital is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2014, 07:11 AM   #6257
Tech Regular
 
Holmenkollen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Sweden
Posts: 425
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan c. View Post
Hello,

Does anyone have a basic modified set up with the ride rex30 tires ( the green ones).
I practiced at an high grip circuit to find an starting setup for this weeks ets at germany but didn't find any good starting point. I tried alot of things but had to stop every time after 2minutes in race because my car wasn't driveable. In warm up the car suffered from grip roll and. Once the race started the back end became loose when exiting the corner. Some advice? Finding grip is often easier than getting rid of it
Fischers ETS setup is a good starting point. With Ride Rex 30 on high grip I would also suggest you check your tire prep. 15 minutes rear and 10 minutes front is a good starting point.
__________________
Serpent - Hobbywing - Graupner
Holmenkollen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2014, 02:59 PM   #6258
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,080
Trader Rating: 14 (94%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
1. Yes and no. Laying down the shock will usually increase side bite more noticably then forward bite. You can lay them down too far and begin to get the opposite effect also. This also assumes you are in the correct area for your shock and spring package already. If you are too soft or too hard, the effects will be less noticable. I stood up my rear shocks 2 holes in the race over the weekend to get a little more rear end rotation (less planted) to increase my corner speed. Idealy, you would like the front and rear shocks to be at approximately the same angle when looking front to back.

2. That is correct as I understand it. At full load, the pressure on the tire should be near the same, but how quickly it applies the pressure to the tire is what changes. Laying the shock down applies the pressure more slowly at first, which helps prevent overloading the tires traction at initial turn in.

3. Most adjustments on an RC car will do one thing, then potentially the opposite if you take it too far. Roll center is included in that. Responsive is hard to quantify. More traction can be more responsive as the car will respond quickly to changes in direction. Less traction can also be more responsive as it allows you to rotate the car (increasing slip) more quickly. As far as changes to roll center, driving the car is really the best way to feel the difference, as it does not equate as directly to traction as it does weight transfer. Moving the lower mount (hingepin block) has a greater effect then spacers on the camber link. Keep that in mind when trying new things to feel the difference.
Fantastic explanation. Thank you Orca.
I fussed around with roll center at beginning of my RC experience and I did not get very good result from it. I referred to Xray T3 setup book at that time and it says changing roll center is the most important thing so I ended up messing up the car overlooking the others. Then naturally I blamed the car not being good enough. Now I know better but the shock positions and damping are the ones that always confuse me and wanted to clarify.
__________________
Capricorn LAB C03
snuvet75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2014, 03:39 PM   #6259
Tech Elite
 
orcadigital's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 2,145
Trader Rating: 61 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snuvet75 View Post
Fantastic explanation. Thank you Orca.
I fussed around with roll center at beginning of my RC experience and I did not get very good result from it. I referred to Xray T3 setup book at that time and it says changing roll center is the most important thing so I ended up messing up the car overlooking the others. Then naturally I blamed the car not being good enough. Now I know better but the shock positions and damping are the ones that always confuse me and wanted to clarify.
My personal opinion is that the majority of the handling, and specifically matching that handling to your driving style and the track conditions, are not shock and spring dependent. My own experience (so take that into account), is that weight transfer (roll centers and droop) and contact patch (camber and camber gain) have the largest impact on handling. Not to say the other pieces are not important, but once you get them correct, I do not see a lot of adjustment necessary as track conditions change. I have been running the same shock and spring package for over a year now (rebuilt many times, but same pistons and oils). I adjust droop and roll centers as conditions change, sometimes shock mounting positions, and maybe up or down a sway bar for small "feel" adjustments.

I have found a few things though. As I said before, keeping shock angles front to rear closer makes for a more consistent car. Same with droop settings, spring weights, etc. Too much variance front to rear will impact side to side handling in a potentially negative way.

The good and bad news is that there are dozens of ways to accomplish a handling scenario. From my more recent driving of 2wd buggy in offroad, I am learning to move away from shocks/springs, and more into weight transfer in order to increase or decrease steering and traction. That is due primarily to jumping, and messing with the shocks messes with how the car jumps, and can have unintended consequences.

Good news also, the folks in this thread are amazingly helpful. One of the joys I have had running Serpent cars, there is never a shortage of help.
__________________
Desoto Racing * Serpent America * Boca Bearings

"I was doing fine until about mid-corner when I ran out of talent."
orcadigital is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2014, 02:14 PM   #6260
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 148
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

Did a rebuild on my S411 1.0 and changed up my shocks a bit. I still have the first version load from the bottom style.

I wanted to go to 4hole pistons w/1.1m holes so I got a set of R10 big bore ones. They are 11mm so on the mini lathe they went. I mic'd out the factory molded pistons and they came up to 9.72mm so I turned the delrins down to 9.97 just to be sure they didnt pinch. After building the shocks with 35wt like I always run I noticed they felt harder, like a thicker oil, BUT smoother.

My question ..... does anyone run 4holes and have you dropped your oils down or changed them due to it?


Also .... switched over to the V3 upper link mounts due to the 3rd hole in them but noticed the hidden benefit. With them we can roll our bearing carriers to raise our diffs. Has anyone played with them yet and what (if any) have you felt by doing so?


Thanks
Robbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2014, 03:00 PM   #6261
Tech Elite
 
Johnny Wishbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,287
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbob View Post
Did a rebuild on my S411 1.0 and changed up my shocks a bit. I still have the first version load from the bottom style.

I wanted to go to 4hole pistons w/1.1m holes so I got a set of R10 big bore ones. They are 11mm so on the mini lathe they went. I mic'd out the factory molded pistons and they came up to 9.72mm so I turned the delrins down to 9.97 just to be sure they didnt pinch. After building the shocks with 35wt like I always run I noticed they felt harder, like a thicker oil, BUT smoother.

My question ..... does anyone run 4holes and have you dropped your oils down or changed them due to it?


Also .... switched over to the V3 upper link mounts due to the 3rd hole in them but noticed the hidden benefit. With them we can roll our bearing carriers to raise our diffs. Has anyone played with them yet and what (if any) have you felt by doing so?


Thanks
As far as the shocks go, it really depends on the feel your trying to get when you change the amount of piston holes. But if your going for just a straight number of hole change, if the holes are the same size, just more, the piston pac will feel softer, or the shock will feel faster in transition. So in your case, more holes should dictate a thicker oil to get the same feel. The majority of people (me included) can't tell the difference and go with the tried and true 3 hole and pick a viscosity and only the really good tuners will play with oils and pistons. I have played with it some and have even gone to 6 hole 2000cst oil, and it seems to work well in some cases.

On carpet I have tried the flipped diff holders and really didn't like the feel of the car, so I went back to stock. Certainly nice to have the option but haven't found a time to use it yet.
__________________
Gary Lanzer
Team VBC HK
Team R1WURKS
Johnny Wishbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2014, 03:07 PM   #6262
Tech Elite
 
Johnny Wishbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,287
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default Serpent Sale.

If your looking for Serpent stuff, check this out.

http://www.serpentamerica.com/shop/home2.php?cat=173
__________________
Gary Lanzer
Team VBC HK
Team R1WURKS
Johnny Wishbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2014, 03:31 PM   #6263
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hervey Bay, Australia.
Posts: 837
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

Hi there,

New 411 Eryx owner here.. and new to on road/TC (have raced off road for about a year).

Should I be running standard sized packs in these or is it preferable to consider shorty packs?

Cheers

Matt.
Chamelion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2014, 03:35 PM   #6264
Tech Elite
 
wwddww34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Dallas Texas
Posts: 2,555
Trader Rating: 9 (91%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamelion View Post
Hi there,

New 411 Eryx owner here.. and new to on road/TC (have raced off road for about a year).

Should I be running standard sized packs in these or is it preferable to consider shorty packs?

Cheers

Matt.
Run standard size packs. A shorty pack will make the right side too light and your car could be unbalanced.
__________________
https://www.facebook.com/groups/BananaRaceway/
wwddww34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2014, 03:35 PM   #6265
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hervey Bay, Australia.
Posts: 837
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

Cheers, much appreciated.
Chamelion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2014, 03:40 PM   #6266
Tech Elite
 
Johnny Wishbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,287
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamelion View Post
Hi there,

New 411 Eryx owner here.. and new to on road/TC (have raced off road for about a year).

Should I be running standard sized packs in these or is it preferable to consider shorty packs?

Cheers

Matt.
It really depends what your trying to acheive and what your club rules are going to allow. If you have a really low weight limit you'll obviously want to take advantage of the shorty pack, but you'll have to juggle the components to get the car balanced. Otherwise the standard packs will work well, just try for good car balance whichever way you go.
__________________
Gary Lanzer
Team VBC HK
Team R1WURKS
Johnny Wishbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2014, 06:16 PM   #6267
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 148
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone View Post
As far as the shocks go, it really depends on the feel your trying to get when you change the amount of piston holes. But if your going for just a straight number of hole change, if the holes are the same size, just more, the piston pac will feel softer, or the shock will feel faster in transition. So in your case, more holes should dictate a thicker oil to get the same feel. The majority of people (me included) can't tell the difference and go with the tried and true 3 hole and pick a viscosity and only the really good tuners will play with oils and pistons. I have played with it some and have even gone to 6 hole 2000cst oil, and it seems to work well in some cases.

On carpet I have tried the flipped diff holders and really didn't like the feel of the car, so I went back to stock. Certainly nice to have the option but haven't found a time to use it yet.
Thanks. I think the 'harder' feeling Im getting could be from the pistons being a tighter fit since Im closer to matching the inside bore size and less blow by on the piston. Trying to understand the 'pack' part of shocks.

When you flipped did it feel like the car had to much roll? To much traction? In my head it seems that would be the case. The one thing I love about the S411 is the aggressiveness the car naturally has. Maybe outdoors it would help flipping for the added roll?

Appreciate the feedback.
Robbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2014, 06:19 PM   #6268
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 148
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone View Post
It really depends what your trying to acheive and what your club rules are going to allow. If you have a really low weight limit you'll obviously want to take advantage of the shorty pack, but you'll have to juggle the components to get the car balanced. Otherwise the standard packs will work well, just try for good car balance whichever way you go.

Playing with this idea too last night and weights. Its a hard juggle getting the weights close side to side with a shorty. Im still about 40g's short on the right side to match a long pack w/electronics on the left.

I think a better balance match would be to move the servo over to the right side but then your basically redesigning the car lol.
Robbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2014, 06:51 PM   #6269
Tech Elite
 
Johnny Wishbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,287
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbob View Post
Playing with this idea too last night and weights. Its a hard juggle getting the weights close side to side with a shorty. Im still about 40g's short on the right side to match a long pack w/electronics on the left.

I think a better balance match would be to move the servo over to the right side but then your basically redesigning the car lol.
Actually, if you where to flip the graphite plate and use button head screws you can probably put the servo on the right side. Just going off memory mind you.
__________________
Gary Lanzer
Team VBC HK
Team R1WURKS
Johnny Wishbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2014, 07:36 PM   #6270
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 148
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone View Post
Actually, if you where to flip the graphite plate and use button head screws you can probably put the servo on the right side. Just going off memory mind you.

the aluminum piece the the plate mounts to uses countersunk screws so you would need conical spacers to flatten it out and flip that too. Possible yes ..... but indoors almost over so maybe a project for next season.
Robbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Batu Kawan Rc Track Tongga Malaysian R/C Racers 10418 06-28-2016 11:34 PM
DRCW Raceway Chesapeake, VA // Asphalt / Indoor Off Road / Outdoor Off Road stiltskin Racing Forum 10278 11-14-2014 07:39 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 04:57 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0