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Old 10-09-2013, 11:24 AM   #5926
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Hi everyone,
I noticed this long time ago, but don't know why I didnt ask before. In 411 front upper camberlink, outer pivotball is touching the plastic rod end while compressing, so it has a feeling like upstop, a rather soft one when suspension compresses, when I use the standart pivotball above the casterblock. This is also the case for the outer steering link ball, where we install on steering block. The problem is that they dont have enough working angle. When I install big parts instead of std from my nitro car problem goes away, but the strange thing is, it changes how the car reacts, and I kinda like the car more when suspension binds with small pillow balls. With very free front suspension, I think I have way too much front grip compared to rear. I even tried free suspension links with upstop shims inside the front shocks, and it was close to having std pivotballs.

If I shouldnt have any binding, then I have a serious car setup problem that every race I have massive oversteer with the car. Last weekend I used a lot of front upstop to have a drivable car!
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Old 10-09-2013, 12:08 PM   #5927
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Originally Posted by musti72 View Post
Hi everyone,
I noticed this long time ago, but don't know why I didnt ask before. In 411 front upper camberlink, outer pivotball is touching the plastic rod end while compressing, so it has a feeling like upstop, a rather soft one when suspension compresses, when I use the standart pivotball above the casterblock. This is also the case for the outer steering link ball, where we install on steering block. The problem is that they dont have enough working angle. When I install big parts instead of std from my nitro car problem goes away, but the strange thing is, it changes how the car reacts, and I kinda like the car more when suspension binds with small pillow balls. With very free front suspension, I think I have way too much front grip compared to rear. I even tried free suspension links with upstop shims inside the front shocks, and it was close to having std pivotballs.

If I shouldnt have any binding, then I have a serious car setup problem that every race I have massive oversteer with the car. Last weekend I used a lot of front upstop to have a drivable car!
I know some dudes here love this car but to me Eryx is not for me. So many problems(servo savor, torque steer, shock leakage, steering rack,etc..) that I needed to fix by myself. Well if you say "hey that's the beauty of working on an RC car" or "that's because you don't know enough!", I would have nothing to say to that. But the car is not set-up capable on outdoor asphalt track especially. No matter what I do, the car always loose rear grip or would not turn depending on the set up. I followed the set up sheets of many famous people. Some made the car non responsive to steering input and some others made the car really loose in the rear. I have a whole set of front and rear sway bar, whole set of serpent springs, different tires, and oils. And trust me, I have tried so many combo that I don't even remember what I've tried. None of them seemed to work perfectly either on outdoor asphalt or on carpet. At this point, I've sort of given up on this car that I'm thinking of making this as a VTA car. Hopefully slower speed would make things better, or flaws concealed I should say.
I've found the same rubbing problem myself too but as long as you don't put too much shim under the outer upper camber link, you should not have that problem, if I understood your remarks correctly. I don't know if my car still does it but I found the inner surface of tire wheels having a very distinct black scuff mark from the upper links in the past so I removed a few mm of shims under the upper link and problem resolved. I hope you will resolve yours soon. Good luck.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:56 PM   #5928
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Originally Posted by Linguster View Post
I went to look in my boxes to find the dremelled plate to take a photo. I guess it went with one of the cars that I have sold. I took a one of the tools in the box that are 3 mm wide and put a pencil mark in the plate and dremelled a 4mm wide and 2 mm deep concave mark in the plate. I did not need to raise the servo mount in the way you have done.
Thank's for the tip.. I did not wanted to cut the extension plate but had no choice. Guess if you want to use the X-Ray servo saver, you have to cut the plate a little...No wonder they went with a different design on the servo holder with the new car...It works great now.

cheers,
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Old 10-13-2013, 08:52 AM   #5929
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Hi there,

Today I have tried Part of the ideas that whityboy used in this setup, mainly I have remove the rear roll center spacers and thanks to that now I'm able to drive the ltcr in my track.
Most of the drivers in the track use the ltcr but for me it has been always too lose so I've been using the mazda 6 for ages and in teh last month I've been working on trying setup changes to use the ltcr, and today using some of his comments I found 3 tenths per lap using that and the LTCR.

Thanks, as always this thread is wonderfull I have used tons of ideas from here.

javier
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:43 PM   #5930
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Heres one for sale guys. Great car just getting ready for indoor offroad.

Serpent S411 2.0 ERYX like new with extras!
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:42 PM   #5931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musti72 View Post
Hi everyone,
I noticed this long time ago, but don't know why I didnt ask before. In 411 front upper camberlink, outer pivotball is touching the plastic rod end while compressing, so it has a feeling like upstop, a rather soft one when suspension compresses, when I use the standart pivotball above the casterblock. This is also the case for the outer steering link ball, where we install on steering block. The problem is that they dont have enough working angle. When I install big parts instead of std from my nitro car problem goes away, but the strange thing is, it changes how the car reacts, and I kinda like the car more when suspension binds with small pillow balls. With very free front suspension, I think I have way too much front grip compared to rear. I even tried free suspension links with upstop shims inside the front shocks, and it was close to having std pivotballs.

If I shouldnt have any binding, then I have a serious car setup problem that every race I have massive oversteer with the car. Last weekend I used a lot of front upstop to have a drivable car!
If your link angle is that extreme I would look at other areas to compensate for the same result. You should never have that much angle to bind the ball joint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snuvet75 View Post
I know some dudes here love this car but to me Eryx is not for me. So many problems(servo savor, torque steer, shock leakage, steering rack,etc..) that I needed to fix by myself. Well if you say "hey that's the beauty of working on an RC car" or "that's because you don't know enough!", I would have nothing to say to that. But the car is not set-up capable on outdoor asphalt track especially. No matter what I do, the car always loose rear grip or would not turn depending on the set up. I followed the set up sheets of many famous people. Some made the car non responsive to steering input and some others made the car really loose in the rear. I have a whole set of front and rear sway bar, whole set of serpent springs, different tires, and oils. And trust me, I have tried so many combo that I don't even remember what I've tried. None of them seemed to work perfectly either on outdoor asphalt or on carpet. At this point, I've sort of given up on this car that I'm thinking of making this as a VTA car. Hopefully slower speed would make things better, or flaws concealed I should say.
I've found the same rubbing problem myself too but as long as you don't put too much shim under the outer upper camber link, you should not have that problem, if I understood your remarks correctly. I don't know if my car still does it but I found the inner surface of tire wheels having a very distinct black scuff mark from the upper links in the past so I removed a few mm of shims under the upper link and problem resolved. I hope you will resolve yours soon. Good luck.
Posted setups are only information to get you close to that days racing. There is no universal setup thats good for every traction, surface and layout. Unless your sitting with the setup poster that day everything changes. We just completed two races (WCIC and IIC) and what I thought may be a good setup for IIC did not work as well as expected. What we ended up giving to the team for setup was like running a slot car on the track, unfortunately luck had other ideas for us, but the cars where very dialed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ICEBERG View Post
Thank's for the tip.. I did not wanted to cut the extension plate but had no choice. Guess if you want to use the X-Ray servo saver, you have to cut the plate a little...No wonder they went with a different design on the servo holder with the new car...It works great now.

cheers,
If you go back on this forum and search for servo saver there where several pictures posted of the mod for servo saver clearance, but in short, no cutting is required. Use a drum sander in the area under the servo saver and sand a relief in the plate. Also be wary that you should run a 1mm spacer under both of the servo posts or sufficient servo tape to keep the servo off the deck as if any down pressure is put on the servo you can still push the saver into the servo plate or chassis.Also be wary that on impact the plate can move, so if you find your steering goes off center check the plate to make sure it hasn't shifted. If your at the Edmonton WCIC race come talk to me and I can show you the mod.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjav View Post
Hi there,

Today I have tried Part of the ideas that whityboy used in this setup, mainly I have remove the rear roll center spacers and thanks to that now I'm able to drive the ltcr in my track.
Most of the drivers in the track use the ltcr but for me it has been always too lose so I've been using the mazda 6 for ages and in teh last month I've been working on trying setup changes to use the ltcr, and today using some of his comments I found 3 tenths per lap using that and the LTCR.

Thanks, as always this thread is wonderfull I have used tons of ideas from here.

javier
I run the LTC-R pretty much all the time and it works well for me.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:32 PM   #5932
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[QUOTE=Johnny Wishbone;12634163]


Posted setups are only information to get you close to that days racing. There is no universal setup thats good for every traction, surface and layout. Unless your sitting with the setup poster that day everything changes. We just completed two races (WCIC and IIC) and what I thought may be a good setup for IIC did not work as well as expected. What we ended up giving to the team for setup was like running a slot car on the track, unfortunately luck had other ideas for us, but the cars where very dialed.
QUOTE]

Hey The car actually worked pretty well as a VTA car in outdoor asphalt track. Yeah I was right about slower speed making things easier.
I agree with you 100% that there is no perfect set up. I didn't just copy somebody else's setup but tried my own's. So don't get me wrong.
I did some more study on the mechanisms of shocks and want to try softer shock spring in the rear since the car was lacking forward traction out of the corner and oversteering a bit. I don't think I need to change the shock oil since the car has plenty of steering in and out and pretty consistent.
Despite my comment I haven't really given up on this car yet and I'm planning to keep going with different set up.
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Old 10-20-2013, 09:47 PM   #5933
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well i am building the new eryx and i am not impressed . as far as i can tell , i am going to have to dremel the shit out of the servo plate to get the clearance to use even the stock servo horn . nevermind trying to get a servo saver to fit . even if i use a 1 mm spacer in the servo horn , the screw head that mounts the ball on the end of the horn has a ton of interference with the plate . i have two 411 TE cars and i like them , but this new servo mounting system is utter crap . piss poor design is an understatement .
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Old 10-20-2013, 10:31 PM   #5934
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im building my firs s411 and i would like to know what you guys thing about using a servo savor or a regular servo horn and about what gears do you recommend for pinion and spur gear along with the type of pitch?
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Old 10-21-2013, 02:07 AM   #5935
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Default whats with servo saver

im only saying this because of what we have experienced

We have never run a servo saver on the serpent 411 and as we run one as a loan car to rookies it never been an issue. WE have used the standard arm that comes with the kit and we haven't failed one servo yet.
We do run metal gear servos 2 savox and 2 bluebirds and we have not failed any one of them in 3 years running in mod and me beating it up with my less than ordinary driving in 21.5 not to mention the beating the loan sport car gets( its yet to hit the pace car but that's only because we haven't got one}

we have had them both mounted /double sided contact and with the bracket in the eryx on it floating bracket

Mount it as good as your driving and all will be good iv got a box full of stuffed servo saver that have flop in them
Luv the ERYX

Alll the best andrew
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Old 10-21-2013, 07:00 AM   #5936
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Originally Posted by Tshabalala View Post
im building my firs s411 and i would like to know what you guys thing about using a servo savor or a regular servo horn and about what gears do you recommend for pinion and spur gear along with the type of pitch?
Same for me as Andrew, I'm using the one right out of the box. As far a gearing goes I always go 64 pitch and I am currently running a 45 pinion with a 96 spur. We race on a basketball court size track that usually is pretty technical. Around here we shoot for a FDR of ~3.8 to ~4.5 depending on track layout.
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Old 10-21-2013, 07:24 AM   #5937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tshabalala View Post
im building my firs s411 and i would like to know what you guys thing about using a servo savor or a regular servo horn and about what gears do you recommend for pinion and spur gear along with the type of pitch?
I have a Kimbrough medium saver on both of my 411s. There's zero slop so really no disadvantage at all aside from the measily 5g it might weigh.
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Old 10-21-2013, 07:48 AM   #5938
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Default spool vs diff

has anyone compared the diff to the spool in the 17.5 class. I am running a diff with 1mill gravity rc fluid and the car feels good to me. I would like to hear input from other 411 owners.
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Old 10-21-2013, 01:32 PM   #5939
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Originally Posted by purple haze View Post
well i am building the new eryx and i am not impressed . as far as i can tell , i am going to have to dremel the shit out of the servo plate to get the clearance to use even the stock servo horn . nevermind trying to get a servo saver to fit . even if i use a 1 mm spacer in the servo horn , the screw head that mounts the ball on the end of the horn has a ton of interference with the plate . i have two 411 TE cars and i like them , but this new servo mounting system is utter crap . piss poor design is an understatement .
Which servo and servo saver are you having this issue with? The original mount was not intended for any servo saver so it will have to be modified for a servo saver. Never had any clearance issues when using the stock servo horn. As far as the design, only 2 screws to remove the entire unit from the car for service, and having the plate mounted as it is has the least amount of deflection over all the other designed floating mounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tshabalala View Post
im building my firs s411 and i would like to know what you guys thing about using a servo savor or a regular servo horn and about what gears do you recommend for pinion and spur gear along with the type of pitch?
I run a Xray 4 spring saver and only required a slight modification of the servo mounting plate to get full rotation clearance.

The gears depend on if you run inside or outside, most prefer 64 pitch, but for outdoors I know a lot of racers use 48 pitch. Also some of the modified drivers use the 48 pitch due to tooth stress from the higher powered motors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gearhead_22 View Post
has anyone compared the diff to the spool in the 17.5 class. I am running a diff with 1mill gravity rc fluid and the car feels good to me. I would like to hear input from other 411 owners.
I started running a front diff at the IIC, (2.5 mil) but ended up using a spool, it just had better pull out of the corners and a little less aggressive feel going into the corner entry. Really the clock is the true determining factor in which is better to run. Speaking of spools, we measured the delron spool versus the aluminum spool with blades and the aluminum is slightly lighter, just have to watch the blades for breakage.
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Last edited by Johnny Wishbone; 10-21-2013 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 10-21-2013, 03:39 PM   #5940
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Originally Posted by purple haze View Post
well i am building the new eryx and i am not impressed . as far as i can tell , i am going to have to dremel the shit out of the servo plate to get the clearance to use even the stock servo horn . nevermind trying to get a servo saver to fit . even if i use a 1 mm spacer in the servo horn , the screw head that mounts the ball on the end of the horn has a ton of interference with the plate . i have two 411 TE cars and i like them , but this new servo mounting system is utter crap . piss poor design is an understatement .
Shane, if you can make it out to the track on Tuesday you can check out my setup.
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