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Old 07-07-2013, 07:01 PM   #5716
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So I was at the same race as Benzaah this weekend, running in modified and F1. This was the first carpet race I've been too in two years, and the first on Ride 32's.

Practise kicked off on Thursday afternoon, and I started out with the car on the Fischer ETS setup. To be honest, the first few runs I just took it easy, as trying to figure out the track, and how the felt on carpet being quite alien.
Made a few small changes as the car went on, mainly moving the front shocks up to hole 3, and trying the centre post motor mount vs the rear screw mount.
The car felt ok, but with lacking a reference point it was hard to tell if it was fast or not. Overall thought the day progressed pretty well, and felt I'd started to get a handle on the settings, the track, and the tyre prep, ready for the controlled practise on the Friday.
I left the car as it had ended up on Thrusday for the first controlled practise run, but it was obvious that the track was in no way near as good condition, after a cold night, and grip was a lot lower. For the second run, left the car alone again, except changing to 2.0/2.0 front blocks, and back to the 2screw motor mount, to try and take away some of the steering. This did help in the middle, but the car was still a bit too keen to bring the rear round on exit, and not straighten up quick enough out of the turn. For the third run, switching to 3K rear diff oil which helped to smooth the car out on throttle, but didn't solve the snap or straightening up issue I had. Fourth round, in an attempt to lock the back of the car down, dropped the rear oil to 450 wt, and switched out the shock tops from sealed to vented. This kind of worked, but didn't really like the feel of the car, was really numb, and hard to drive consistent. Bit of a frustrating end to the day, as I felt there was a good setup just out of reach... General pace was ok, ending up around the 25th mark.
Qualifying on the saturday, and having had a think over night, went back to the 500wt rear oil, and sealed tops, and took all the rebound out. At this point I also discovered that the bladders had swelled a lot as well, so switched them out for new ones, and I could now get low rebound with sealed tops
First qualifier was pretty much the same as Friday night... ok, but not great. Tough to drive, and felt on edge. Second qualifier, tweaked the droop a little, giving it 0.5mm all round, and an extra 0.5 of rear camber. This helped to take the edge off, but the still didn't loose the sliding rear end.
For the Third qualifier, decided to make a big change. Given it was FTD format, figured that I could sacrifice the third run to try a very different setup, and if it didn't work, switch back for the fourth round. Having been walking around the bits, and looking at other cars that were working well (specifically the Yokomo's), decided to make a large number of changes.
Changed the rear blocks to 0.0/3.0, narrowing the back of the car to help generate more grip. Shocks positions to 4/4 F/R from 3/5 (more equal, and upright, trying to generate side bite). Front blocks back to 2.0/1.5 (smoother through the turn, on the advice of Ronald Volker). Back to the centre post motor mount, and throwing my braced front top deck on the car. All of that together was to generate more rear traction, but also then give it more steering to pull the car round... basically attempting to make the car grip more all round!
And well... it worked. Jumped form 25th to 14th overall, and post my first 12.2 laps of the weekend (fast guys up to that point had been doing 11.9s, bar Ronald on an 11.7), so I was mega happy. Car was gripped up, and better balanced than it had been all weekend, smooth, and steery all at the same time. Sufice to say for the fourth run, I kept it the same, and was onto improve until I clipped a dot, and lost a couple of second on a pipe. However, very satisfied, and thankfully had done enough to make the B final, as only 5 drivers improved in the last round.

For the finals on sunday, with the target for the weekend achieved, I wanted to try out a few more things. In the morning practise, I went to the grub screw under the front post of the motor mount, and this felt mega on track, so ran with it in the first final. Wasn't a good choice, as by then the grip had come up more, and I had made it a push monkey... still took 9th, but was 2/10ths off my fastest lap. Leg 2, I was under the pump racing F1 and Mod back to back, and cocked up the additive routine for the tourer, leaving it skating across the surface for the first laps, and dropping a heap of time. Came back towards the end of the run, but still a 10th off my best lap, although the run ended early after a glancing blow on a barrier stripped a servo gear. Last final, given I couldn't really improve my position overall, wanted to try something out in the interests of learning, so threw a gear diff in the front with putty. Not a wise move, gave the car too much middle steering, and would whip the rear of the car round. Driven smooth and wide (like a one-way!) it was quick-ish, but very hard to race with, which I was quite suprised with.

Still, mega weekend, and the car was really good in the end, after moving away from the ETS setting. The track (as Ben mentions) itself wasn't that gripped up, so traction roll was never an issue. Certainly learnt a lot in time for next year

Starting and final setups attached.
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File Type: pdf EC - AOC2013Rnd2.pdf (226.1 KB, 128 views)
File Type: pdf AOC 2013 - Starting Setup.pdf (225.4 KB, 196 views)
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Old 07-07-2013, 07:42 PM   #5717
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Torque steer... I just can't get rid of it from this car. I checked bearings, all drive trains to see if there's binding.. The only thing I can think of is weight distribution between Lt and Rt but this has not been a huge issue for me with other cars. I put 12g weight in center only. I pull the trigger hard and the car goes to left constantly. I pull the trigger slowly and the car goes straight. Some help please...
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:58 AM   #5718
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Default S411 Upgrade to ERYX

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzaah View Post
The new car has revised plastics, a new chassis design, short shocks and a new plastic geared diff. If I were you, I would run your old car with new shocks, towers and the diff.
My car still has the 2,5mm chassis and I see the new trend is every car is going to 2,25mm chassis. Also the floating servo with new steering system.
My car has a lot of slop on the steering system.
Do you think the original 411 is better than the new ERYX and whats wrong in your opinion with the revised plastics ?
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:36 PM   #5719
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is the new steering rack/servo mount compatible with the TE chassis? Pretty happy with my TE so couldnt see spending $500 replacing it, but if i could upgrade it for around $150 that would be worth it.

plastics, shocks, towers, servo mount and DJC's pretty much it i should think.
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:45 PM   #5720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeronemo View Post
My car still has the 2,5mm chassis and I see the new trend is every car is going to 2,25mm chassis. Also the floating servo with new steering system.
My car has a lot of slop on the steering system.
Do you think the original 411 is better than the new ERYX and whats wrong in your opinion with the revised plastics ?
he probably drove the car on a surface which doesnt have high grip. In high grip, I think new plastics are way to go, and on lower traction, they work OK as well. With softer plastics on high grip, car is struggling lot more than harder plastics on low grip, I hope you understand what I mean.

Regarding rest of the ERYX, split blocks are a tuning option to have more grip and to be more forgiving on curbs at high grip carpet, it reduces traction rolling.

V3 diff is simply better and faster, more forward traction, lighter, etc etc...

Low shock towers reduce the CG of the car which we almost always like, and I personally like the RCM super short shocks better, they are smoother.
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Old 07-08-2013, 07:59 PM   #5721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeronemo View Post
My car still has the 2,5mm chassis and I see the new trend is every car is going to 2,25mm chassis. Also the floating servo with new steering system.
My car has a lot of slop on the steering system.
Do you think the original 411 is better than the new ERYX and whats wrong in your opinion with the revised plastics ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by musti72 View Post
he probably drove the car on a surface which doesnt have high grip. In high grip, I think new plastics are way to go, and on lower traction, they work OK as well.
Im sorry but where did I say I didn't like the new plastics??? In my race report I found the old hard plastic faster than the new mediums on the track I was running (medium grip yes)and I ran 2 identical cars back to back apart from the arms and hubs. The original medium plastics are what I would consider soft and make the car doughy. The new plastics are a lot stiffer and.i hope they pRoduce some hard parts with the new moulds.

Also, I was assuming that he had a later car than he has. If you do have one of the original S411, with the 2.5 chassis and the original metal Gear diff I would rat it for parts and buy a new kit as there are a heap of useful upgrades. You still have a lot of useful spares such as bulk heads and drive train(except diff) and these are worth more than the second hand value of your current ride.. There are a few good articles on this new version from petiterc.

http://www.petitrc.com/reglages/serp...ntS4112.0.html

Gary's build tips

http://www.petitrc.com/reglages/serp...zer_BuildTips/

Ed's comparison article

http://www.petitrc.com/reglages/serp...ommentsVsS411/

I'm still trying to get my set up sheet online but its 700kb which is over the site limit. Here I a pic of my car inaction at the event. Rocking the pink and black scheme
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:34 PM   #5722
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The track. Sorry I could not edit my previous post
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:50 PM   #5723
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Great results and reports guys, good to see.

[QUOTE=Linguster;12321727]Attachment 1086426
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone View Post

Sorry for my english and not making my questions/statements clear what I am asking. But a picture tell more then 1000 words... Picture taken after 30 runs and this is my third V3 diff this happens to.
Thanks for the pic, although I wouldn't consider that excessive wear on the out drive, I guess if the edge gets sharp enough it could take out the blades. I think the new blades may be a touch softer as they are easier to put on the dogbones....with that I wonder if it may be better to source another brand of blade that fits, that could be a harder material which may help you for the time being. I think when you ran the Xray diff and dogbones it probably had the harder blades so thats why you didn't see the same wear. Hope that helps and don't worry about the language deal, we'll get it figured out eventually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeronemo View Post
Hi All , I have been out Racing for a while and I am trying to catch up. I have a S411.
Looks like the models after that was the , S411LE , S411TE and now the ERYX.
My questions are did I miss any model and I want to get the latest model and I see some places the ERYX and ERYX 2.0 is it the same thing or is there already a version 2.0 of the ERYX.
Also I have a lot of spares for my S411 like , C-hub , steeringblock , wishbone front and rear , belts ect. Does the ERYX use the same parts ?
And last question which parts are supplied in the ERYX kit for the wishbone , C-hub ect , will it be the Hard , Medium or Soft
The ERYX 2.0 is the car that was released to the public, so there never was a ERYX 1.0 or such available. You can use all those parts from the original car on the newest version as well, and in some situations it will give you a alternate tuning ooptions. The plastics have changed some which seem to make the overall durability of the car stronger, not saying the parts are harder but probably stiffer by design over material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snuvet75 View Post
Torque steer... I just can't get rid of it from this car. I checked bearings, all drive trains to see if there's binding.. The only thing I can think of is weight distribution between Lt and Rt but this has not been a huge issue for me with other cars. I put 12g weight in center only. I pull the trigger hard and the car goes to left constantly. I pull the trigger slowly and the car goes straight. Some help please...
I have seen the smallest wear on the blades cause a torque steer issue, this may be something to check as well. If you do find something else please let us know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeronemo View Post
My car still has the 2,5mm chassis and I see the new trend is every car is going to 2,25mm chassis. Also the floating servo with new steering system.
My car has a lot of slop on the steering system.
Do you think the original 411 is better than the new ERYX and whats wrong in your opinion with the revised plastics ?
The only thing thats different about using the 2.5 chassis, is its a touch wider, which most of the people trim the bumpouts off the one side and trim the same amount off the other side frame rail, to make it as narrow as the newer version chassis. This is real simple if you have a newer one that you can bolt together and use for a guide to cut the extra material off. I have found that when running the 2.5 chassis you don't get quite as much handling difference when changing top decks. Read the build tips for the steering rack, the more slop you can get out of it the better. Nothing wrong with any of the plastics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by musti72 View Post
he probably drove the car on a surface which doesnt have high grip. In high grip, I think new plastics are way to go, and on lower traction, they work OK as well. With softer plastics on high grip, car is struggling lot more than harder plastics on low grip, I hope you understand what I mean.

Regarding rest of the ERYX, split blocks are a tuning option to have more grip and to be more forgiving on curbs at high grip carpet, it reduces traction rolling.

V3 diff is simply better and faster, more forward traction, lighter, etc etc...

Low shock towers reduce the CG of the car which we almost always like, and I personally like the RCM super short shocks better, they are smoother.
I run a TE with a combination of arms, using the med arms in the front and the hard arms in the rear, not sure if this is the real reason, but this combination has very good rotation in the corners and seems to drive thru the corner better. Something I did run into when playing with springs, was that I could go from soft springs to harder springs, and could emulate virtually the same lap times with all the combos, BUT, you could actually see the cars rotation go from a smooth flow to a slight stall in mid corner. It never felt really bad, but just lost its rotation. So if your on a real soft spring package, maybe try going up a step and see what happens, usually the fronts.

The V3 diff is worth the upgrade.

Something to consider as far as CofG goes, as far as the chassis goes, 40 gm mass is equal to 4mm. From this it would lower the the CofG of the car approximately 0.1mm or in percent terms 0.3% lower. So really not a whole bunch between the new car and the old car.
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Old 07-10-2013, 03:40 AM   #5724
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Thanks for the pic, although I wouldn't consider that excessive wear on the out drive, I guess if the edge gets sharp enough it could take out the blades. I think the new blades may be a touch softer as they are easier to put on the dogbones....with that I wonder if it may be better to source another brand of blade that fits, that could be a harder material which may help you for the time being. I think when you ran the Xray diff and dogbones it probably had the harder blades so thats why you didn't see the same wear. Hope that helps and don't worry about the language deal, we'll get it figured out eventually.


Thanks for the analysis, I think you are on to something. The edge of the outdrive get really sharp and that "eats" into the blades. I remember that it was a hard time to get the Xray blades on. But I guess i can not use them due to that they are "wider" Do any in the community know of blades that I can try that are "harder" than the original.
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:47 AM   #5725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snuvet75 View Post
Torque steer... I just can't get rid of it from this car. I checked bearings, all drive trains to see if there's binding.. The only thing I can think of is weight distribution between Lt and Rt but this has not been a huge issue for me with other cars. I put 12g weight in center only. I pull the trigger hard and the car goes to left constantly. I pull the trigger slowly and the car goes straight. Some help please...
Anybody?? -_-
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:41 AM   #5726
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Id check for spring/swaybar tweak. Preloads f/r arent always even even on a new/balanced car.
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Old 07-10-2013, 05:23 PM   #5727
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Id check for spring/swaybar tweak. Preloads f/r arent always even even on a new/balanced car.
I checked all that. I had to make a pretty big difference between left and right preloads to get rid of the tweak. I thought that the tweak was because of the weight distribution but the weight difference between left and right doesn't seem to make a whole lot of difference. Would it? Because I tried different batteries from light to heavy but the tweak was the same. With tweak corrected, there's a 3-4mm difference in right height between left and right in the front. I think this whole thing must have something to do with torque steer. I put 12g weight in the middle only.
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:06 PM   #5728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snuvet75 View Post
I checked all that. I had to make a pretty big difference between left and right preloads to get rid of the tweak. I thought that the tweak was because of the weight distribution but the weight difference between left and right doesn't seem to make a whole lot of difference. Would it? Because I tried different batteries from light to heavy but the tweak was the same. With tweak corrected, there's a 3-4mm difference in right height between left and right in the front. I think this whole thing must have something to do with torque steer. I put 12g weight in the middle only.
That sounds really messed up. Left/right weight balance is definitely important. If it's not close, you'll basically have a tweak you can't get rid of.

How are you measuring tweak?

Other things not mentioned would be droop (this is a big on depending on how you're measuring tweak), some kind of severe binding, springs of mismatched lengths, mismatched spring rates, a lower spring seat that didn't fully go down over the ball cup, shock position off by a hole, maybe even a big difference in shock rebound.

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Old 07-10-2013, 11:02 PM   #5729
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first of all, loosten all the bulkhead screws for the transmission bulkheads, topdeck and shock tower screws. dont undo them fully, just enough to have a little bit of wiggle in the parts. i use my hudy downstop blocks, but a glass table works too, loostly tighten the top deck screws. use all of them initially to align the top plate to the bulkheads. dont tigthen fully, just til they seated. if the car sits on the blocks or table without any wobble, flip it over and tighten the bulkhead screws in star pattern until they seated, again not fully tight.

flip it over again, no wobble? check the belts for freeness and slowly tigthen the upper bulkheads to the lower ones in star pattern. incrimentally tighten all the screws top and bottom until they fully snug and you shouldnt have any tweak at all. even if your chassis has a tiny little bow to it, your car should sit flat.

I always start with downstop setting for droop just to know the arms are at an even height. then i adjust my final droop by orh, and recheck on downstop to make even. unless you have a monsterous lipo and really light motor/servo, this car should be very close to balanced once built. enough that shimming the motor out should be enough to get you perfect balance.

so i set my shocks with 2mm of preload using a 2mm shim as a feeler gauge. not 100% accurate but a lot easier than calipers.
i adust my ride height under each droop screw and a half mil over regulation to compensate for tweak check. so 5.5mm under each droop screw. then i use the lift method to check for tweak from the shock springs. if thats all good front/rear, ill connect the rollbars and repeat the test. new swaybars should not be tweaked if the endlinks are the specified length. though evenness is important. so i use a feeler gauge here as well.

so long winded answer but its all in the details. there is no way a new car should need 3-4mm of preload split left/right. something didnt go together right if thats the case.
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Old 07-11-2013, 04:46 PM   #5730
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Hello.. I'm new to this site as far as posting goes, but i've been on here religiously for some time researching a ton of stuff about on-road touring cars.... BUT as always... would like to get as many fresh, valued opinions from people with hands on experience with this chassis as possible. I dont mean to tickle anyones nerve sounding like every noob looking for general advice--- I know it comes down to setup and the driver in the end, but I am just looking for opinions to help me decide on a car. I'm not asking what "THE BEST CAR IS?" caus eI know you can be good in anything! I apologize in advance!

So, the guys at the track are telling me to get this crap OFNA JL10E roller that's on amainhobbies for about $120... Everything is built, but it seems as fragile as glass.

The guy who recommended that OFNA JL10E chassis to me is the driver beating guys that drive a BD7 and a TC6.1 with his OFNA roller made of plastic........

I had a chance to borrow all three cars to run a few practice laps.... This a teeny tiny asphalt parking lot track with a 100 ft straight.
Wow the Yokomo seems the fastest and easiest to drive

BUUUUUUT, Only thing is after I borrowed the OFNA it is just as fast, if not almost faster than the Yokomo... Being new to on road I find this weird!

I like the fact that Serpent has been around for a while, but how long have they been doing on road touring cars?? I heard there is quite a bit of shimming to do with the build and dremeling.... Is this normal for touring car kits>? I guess im used to helicopter kits where everything has extremely strict tolerances with zero play.... maybe I should be prepared for a build that "doesn't fit perfect"?

I'm torn between the XRAY T4 and this Serpent S411 ERYX 2.0.

My gut tells me to go with the Serpent..... My local hobby shop stocks crap parts and mainly traxxas parts. I would have to order parts online regardless.. Taking that into consideraton what would you all do? (I'm just getting into this category of hobby, but I am technically inclined... I have 9 helis.. one of them being a SAB Goblin 700.. I can build stuff pretty obsessively)

I'm looking forward to showing up with a suprise! sneaky serpent!
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