16LikesSerpent S411
05-03-2013, 06:41 PM
#5492
Can anyone share there experiences on carpet when starting with a new carpet and then progressing up to high traction as the event wears on. We have a brand new CRC rug coming for AOC and i have zero experience on carpet. By the sounds of it there could be up to 200 racers attending the event which will have Ride as the spec tyre. Any advice on goop as well would be appreciated. Unfortunately some of the more readily available treatments in the US are a bit hard to come by down here. I have not been able to find SXT or sticky fingers down here.
Grip will probably come up pretty quick. I'd guess by the end of the first full day of running. I've gone through new carpet once and new layouts a few times at the club level, but never something like snowbirds or IIC with totally virgin carpet getting mobbed by a ton of people, so I could be off. In any case, new carpet that hasn't gripped up feels more like asphalt: very low grip, but very consistent regardless of line. It's kinda fun.
Don't tune your car during this phase. Just keep a base setup and concentrate on learning the layout. You'll probably want/need to sauce the living crap out of your tires during this stage.As grip comes up, it'll also get more of a distinct groove. The darker / grippier the groove gets, the starker the contrast in grip level between being in and out of the groove will be. On carpet, it's absolutely critical to drive clean and stay in the groove. You may only miss the apex by a couple car widths, but that can put you out on a very slippery part of the track. Getting out of the groove can also get your tires dirty in a hurry, too.
Sauce: Are you restricted? Is it a Jack / SXT 3.0 / Sticky Fingers situation? I haven't tried Sticky Fingers, but I prefer Jack over SXT 3.0. I find SXT to be overly aggressive during warmup and the first few laps, making it very hard to settle into a good run. Jack seems less aggressive up front, but more consistent over the whole run. I have to tip-toe for a lap or two in warm-up, then I'm good to go.
When you clean the tires, don't forget to clean the sidewalls. Check your glue seams religiously.
Setup: I don't know anything about the Eryx specifically. But if you find yourself starting to traction roll, try: less droop, similar droop front and rear instead of more in the rear, and moving weight forward in the chassis. Also, saucing less than the full front tire can work wonders. In general, use less dual rate and set up the chassis for better rotation. If you understeer, or your back end is too planted, you'll use more steering lock, and then you'll flip. You'll also scrub too much corner speed. Understeer + too much lock will also make your car do weird things on corner exit as you get on the power, and really hurt your consistency.
Carpet won't rip the crap out of your tires like asphalt can if you push the front tires hard on corner entry. However, pipes will rip the crap out of your car if you have too much initial steering and nose into the barriers.
-Mike
05-04-2013, 05:16 AM
#5493
Since no-one else has answered you, I'll throw out some debatably useful stuff.
Grip will probably come up pretty quick. I'd guess by the end of the first full day of running. I've gone through new carpet once and new layouts a few times at the club level, but never something like snowbirds or IIC with totally virgin carpet getting mobbed by a ton of people, so I could be off. In any case, new carpet that hasn't gripped up feels more like asphalt: very low grip, but very consistent regardless of line. It's kinda fun. Don't tune your car during this phase. Just keep a base setup and concentrate on learning the layout. You'll probably want/need to sauce the living crap out of your tires during this stage.
As grip comes up, it'll also get more of a distinct groove. The darker / grippier the groove gets, the starker the contrast in grip level between being in and out of the groove will be. On carpet, it's absolutely critical to drive clean and stay in the groove. You may only miss the apex by a couple car widths, but that can put you out on a very slippery part of the track. Getting out of the groove can also get your tires dirty in a hurry, too.
Sauce: Are you restricted? Is it a Jack / SXT 3.0 / Sticky Fingers situation? I haven't tried Sticky Fingers, but I prefer Jack over SXT 3.0. I find SXT to be overly aggressive during warmup and the first few laps, making it very hard to settle into a good run. Jack seems less aggressive up front, but more consistent over the whole run. I have to tip-toe for a lap or two in warm-up, then I'm good to go.
When you clean the tires, don't forget to clean the sidewalls. Check your glue seams religiously.
Setup: I don't know anything about the Eryx specifically. But if you find yourself starting to traction roll, try: less droop, similar droop front and rear instead of more in the rear, and moving weight forward in the chassis. Also, saucing less than the full front tire can work wonders. In general, use less dual rate and set up the chassis for better rotation. If you understeer, or your back end is too planted, you'll use more steering lock, and then you'll flip. You'll also scrub too much corner speed. Understeer + too much lock will also make your car do weird things on corner exit as you get on the power, and really hurt your consistency.
Carpet won't rip the crap out of your tires like asphalt can if you push the front tires hard on corner entry. However, pipes will rip the crap out of your car if you have too much initial steering and nose into the barriers.
-Mike
Grip will probably come up pretty quick. I'd guess by the end of the first full day of running. I've gone through new carpet once and new layouts a few times at the club level, but never something like snowbirds or IIC with totally virgin carpet getting mobbed by a ton of people, so I could be off. In any case, new carpet that hasn't gripped up feels more like asphalt: very low grip, but very consistent regardless of line. It's kinda fun.
Don't tune your car during this phase. Just keep a base setup and concentrate on learning the layout. You'll probably want/need to sauce the living crap out of your tires during this stage.As grip comes up, it'll also get more of a distinct groove. The darker / grippier the groove gets, the starker the contrast in grip level between being in and out of the groove will be. On carpet, it's absolutely critical to drive clean and stay in the groove. You may only miss the apex by a couple car widths, but that can put you out on a very slippery part of the track. Getting out of the groove can also get your tires dirty in a hurry, too.
Sauce: Are you restricted? Is it a Jack / SXT 3.0 / Sticky Fingers situation? I haven't tried Sticky Fingers, but I prefer Jack over SXT 3.0. I find SXT to be overly aggressive during warmup and the first few laps, making it very hard to settle into a good run. Jack seems less aggressive up front, but more consistent over the whole run. I have to tip-toe for a lap or two in warm-up, then I'm good to go.
When you clean the tires, don't forget to clean the sidewalls. Check your glue seams religiously.
Setup: I don't know anything about the Eryx specifically. But if you find yourself starting to traction roll, try: less droop, similar droop front and rear instead of more in the rear, and moving weight forward in the chassis. Also, saucing less than the full front tire can work wonders. In general, use less dual rate and set up the chassis for better rotation. If you understeer, or your back end is too planted, you'll use more steering lock, and then you'll flip. You'll also scrub too much corner speed. Understeer + too much lock will also make your car do weird things on corner exit as you get on the power, and really hurt your consistency.
Carpet won't rip the crap out of your tires like asphalt can if you push the front tires hard on corner entry. However, pipes will rip the crap out of your car if you have too much initial steering and nose into the barriers.
-Mike
I'll add to that and say, as for a starting setup, Fischers DHI/ETS carpet setup would be the best base to go from, IMO. His car obviously worked very well at those races (on two quite different tyres including the Ride32's), so shows it's pretty good baseline.
For high traction, seemingly the general consensus is to go with soft springs, but heavy oil, to help the car roll and stop initial rolls. I think the only thing I might change from those settings to start with would be slightly narrower rear blocks, but a wide rear will also stop the car biting and rolling. Also don't overlook the bump steer spacers to help take away mid-corner bite, and saucing less than full front width can be a useful tuning aid if struggling.
As for additive, I'd also throw in the the ring LRP Carpet2, seems more popular in the ETS style events than SXT or Jack, from what I can tell.
Pretty much the above is what I'll be starting out with at that event I think!
HiH
Ed
05-04-2013, 05:05 PM
#5494
VTA setup for S411
Does anyone have a setup sheet for Vintage Trans Am that they can point me to.
Thank you
Thank you
05-05-2013, 03:19 AM
#5497
05-05-2013, 03:36 AM
#5498
I'm using the clear o-rings from RCM shocks http://www.serpent.com/product/160110/ like TryHard suggested and no leaking after 20 packs! The black o-rings seem to get hard after a while and start to leak on all ERYX's I seen
Ed
05-05-2013, 07:19 AM
#5499
I had some time on low to medium grip asphalt tracks with my new ERYX and it feels good so far.
The only thing that bothers me is a little too much steering mid and exit of corner. This seems to happen only off power. When I get on power the rear is planted again!
It look's something like this: Entering the corner the car is pushing a little ... then as I want to ''cruise'' through the corner suddenly the over-steer happens then I apply power and the grip on the rear ''comes back''.
Now I was thinking maybe something with the diff or the track width? My setup was nothing freaky different from what the most drivers are doing. Only thing is 4mm bump steer like Ed is using it but gone to 2mm with no major improvement.
Maybe some suggestions in which direction to look?
Thanks
The only thing that bothers me is a little too much steering mid and exit of corner. This seems to happen only off power. When I get on power the rear is planted again!
It look's something like this: Entering the corner the car is pushing a little ... then as I want to ''cruise'' through the corner suddenly the over-steer happens then I apply power and the grip on the rear ''comes back''.
Now I was thinking maybe something with the diff or the track width? My setup was nothing freaky different from what the most drivers are doing. Only thing is 4mm bump steer like Ed is using it but gone to 2mm with no major improvement.
Maybe some suggestions in which direction to look?
Thanks
05-05-2013, 03:59 PM
#5500
I had some time on low to medium grip asphalt tracks with my new ERYX and it feels good so far.
The only thing that bothers me is a little too much steering mid and exit of corner. This seems to happen only off power. When I get on power the rear is planted again!
It look's something like this: Entering the corner the car is pushing a little ... then as I want to ''cruise'' through the corner suddenly the over-steer happens then I apply power and the grip on the rear ''comes back''.
Now I was thinking maybe something with the diff or the track width? My setup was nothing freaky different from what the most drivers are doing. Only thing is 4mm bump steer like Ed is using it but gone to 2mm with no major improvement.
Maybe some suggestions in which direction to look?
Thanks
The only thing that bothers me is a little too much steering mid and exit of corner. This seems to happen only off power. When I get on power the rear is planted again!
It look's something like this: Entering the corner the car is pushing a little ... then as I want to ''cruise'' through the corner suddenly the over-steer happens then I apply power and the grip on the rear ''comes back''.
Now I was thinking maybe something with the diff or the track width? My setup was nothing freaky different from what the most drivers are doing. Only thing is 4mm bump steer like Ed is using it but gone to 2mm with no major improvement.
Maybe some suggestions in which direction to look?
Thanks
05-05-2013, 05:19 PM
#5501
I had some time on low to medium grip asphalt tracks with my new ERYX and it feels good so far.
The only thing that bothers me is a little too much steering mid and exit of corner. This seems to happen only off power. When I get on power the rear is planted again!
It look's something like this: Entering the corner the car is pushing a little ... then as I want to ''cruise'' through the corner suddenly the over-steer happens then I apply power and the grip on the rear ''comes back''.
Now I was thinking maybe something with the diff or the track width? My setup was nothing freaky different from what the most drivers are doing. Only thing is 4mm bump steer like Ed is using it but gone to 2mm with no major improvement.
Maybe some suggestions in which direction to look?
Thanks
The only thing that bothers me is a little too much steering mid and exit of corner. This seems to happen only off power. When I get on power the rear is planted again!
It look's something like this: Entering the corner the car is pushing a little ... then as I want to ''cruise'' through the corner suddenly the over-steer happens then I apply power and the grip on the rear ''comes back''.
Now I was thinking maybe something with the diff or the track width? My setup was nothing freaky different from what the most drivers are doing. Only thing is 4mm bump steer like Ed is using it but gone to 2mm with no major improvement.
Maybe some suggestions in which direction to look?
Thanks
One of things I'm finding with this car is it does react very well to even small changes, so it maybe a case of making a few small tweaks and then it helps to reduce that snap.
Ed
05-05-2013, 10:32 PM
#5502
This is what I was running. Front I used the Spool so don't bother the 500cst oil in the editable sheet.
Thanks for help!
Thanks for help!
05-06-2013, 02:18 AM
#5503
I had a look at your setup, looks really similar to what I used to run and I found it doing what you're describing. Basically I would consider changing the following:
- FR Split blocks to 1.5
- Front shocks to hole 4
- Rear Shocks Hole 2-4 (see what you like best)
- Rear diff to 2,000
This should give you more turn in and stop the front diving mid corner, hence less mid steering. And more exit steering and forward traction. Should just be more consistent throughout the whole corner. With the rear shocks, hole 2 will be smoother and more rotation off power. Hole 4 should give more aggression and less rotation, just see what you like. I've never used Ride Blue before, at the moment I use Yokomo Pink Front and Blue Rear with a lot of success. But also HPI Silver Front and Rear is always safe, so feel free to play with springs.
Hope this helps!
Ryan.
05-06-2013, 03:18 AM
#5504
Hi Geberit,
I had a look at your setup, looks really similar to what I used to run and I found it doing what you're describing. Basically I would consider changing the following:
- FR Split blocks to 1.5
- Front shocks to hole 4
- Rear Shocks Hole 2-4 (see what you like best)
- Rear diff to 2,000
This should give you more turn in and stop the front diving mid corner, hence less mid steering. And more exit steering and forward traction. Should just be more consistent throughout the whole corner. With the rear shocks, hole 2 will be smoother and more rotation off power. Hole 4 should give more aggression and less rotation, just see what you like. I've never used Ride Blue before, at the moment I use Yokomo Pink Front and Blue Rear with a lot of success. But also HPI Silver Front and Rear is always safe, so feel free to play with springs.
Hope this helps!
Ryan.
I had a look at your setup, looks really similar to what I used to run and I found it doing what you're describing. Basically I would consider changing the following:
- FR Split blocks to 1.5
- Front shocks to hole 4
- Rear Shocks Hole 2-4 (see what you like best)
- Rear diff to 2,000
This should give you more turn in and stop the front diving mid corner, hence less mid steering. And more exit steering and forward traction. Should just be more consistent throughout the whole corner. With the rear shocks, hole 2 will be smoother and more rotation off power. Hole 4 should give more aggression and less rotation, just see what you like. I've never used Ride Blue before, at the moment I use Yokomo Pink Front and Blue Rear with a lot of success. But also HPI Silver Front and Rear is always safe, so feel free to play with springs.
Hope this helps!
Ryan.
will follow your suggestions!
I have the Yok springs Blue/Pink kombo at home so will give it a go.
Lojz
05-06-2013, 05:36 AM
#5505
Hole 3 in the rear seems to be a really good starting point, so I would try 4f 3r to start out, especially on the Ride Blues.
2K in the rear diff will help to smooth the car out, and take away some off power steering, whilst gaining on-power. I actually use 3K now when the traction gets up.
Going to a 1.5 FR split block will, as mentioned, help to take away mid-corner. Bare in mind it also lengthens the wheelbase a little, and adjusts the ackerman... all which contribute, IMO, to make the car more consistent through the turn. This weekend I actually went to 1.5/1.5 front blocks, and really liked how that felt, as it gained more initial... so worth trying that as well.
Had another good weekend at the track this week, didn't change too much on the car, as overall quite happy with my base setup now.
Main tweaks I made during the day were;
Springs - Switched to HPI silvers, as the Ride Greens were causing the car to stop mid corner. Did think about going to the Blues instead, but have been meaning to try out silvers for a while. It's interesting, but thats the first time in a long time that I've felt happy with the car on Silvers.
Front blocks - As mentioned above switched to 1.5/1.5 blocks to take out the arm sweep. Gained initial, and seemed more consistent to drive through the corners.
Front wheelbase - Prior to playing with the front blocks, I also lengthened the front wheelbase, going to a 1.5mm shim in front of the arm to match the wheelbase of the straight arms. Felt it was an improvement over shorter, but hard to put my finger on why...
Motor mount - Still running the one-piece with L-bracket, without any rear screws in the top (option 2 in the Eryx manual). However something I wanted to try for a while was something I had spotted on the Yokomo and Tamiya Raceberry cars.. and that was using a set screw, rather than a normal countersunk screw in the bottom. Now, I only use the front screw when running that mount anyway, so just locktited a 8mm setscrew in place of that. Did the change mid run, so got a good feel for it. It actually helped to tighten the rear of the car up a little, but not as much as say switching to the option 2 mount style. So I think that it's a good compromise between the option 1 and option 2, and a handy tweak to bare in mind. Will be staying like this for the time being I think
Anyway, next time out, I've got a few things to try... Wider front and rear suspension blocks, Yok springs (again), and also give the split rear blocks a try in combination with the wider blocks... it's a never ending list, but now I feel like I've got a good handle on what does what with the car, so can tune it as I need.
Setup attached
Last edited by TryHard; 05-06-2013 at 05:48 AM.
