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Old 03-08-2013, 07:41 PM   #5311
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Originally Posted by Nitroblood View Post
I bought my S411 two years ago, so it is basically a V1 (just changed chassis, topdeck and differential to V2). I remember that when I did finish it, it had a lot of play all around the front end (wishbones, c-hubs, steeringrack....). I reduced significally the play by adding a lot of shims (and with the help of this thread) but I think that a new 400€ car canīt have that amount of play.
Is this problem still present in the Eryx? Is it really a step up from the original V1 or TE?
Did you over ream anything? I did that once...
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Old 03-09-2013, 05:43 AM   #5312
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Nitroblood, I had the S411 when it came out and I now have the S411 Eryx. In between the 2 cars I had the BD7, VBC Wildfire and the TCXX. When I compare the S411 to the S411 Eryx I find that they both had slop in the steering rack. With the right shims and some counter-sunk washers that can be removed. On the track I'm faster with the Eryx and I have broken way less parts. I think you'll find that all cars have flaws....on my BD7 the diff couldn't hold it's oil, on the VBC the rear belt would pop and the TCXX was just junk all the way round. My .02 cent the car is better...
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Old 03-09-2013, 06:37 AM   #5313
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I am confused about this matter and it makes me bother. In addition, this is really interesting because I'm a car lover. Can you please give some details what are the different kind of car that can really good for racers?
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:00 PM   #5314
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From my experience, a car with less rear droop will have less steering (it's quite a useful thing to try when struggling with traction roll...)

Also, more droop on bumpy tracks can help make the car more stable. Although again that works in combination with ride height, as bumpy tracks normally equals higher ride height.

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Ed, thanks or the thorough explanation. The 2 quotes above sum up my confusion. My car struggles in 1 section of the track which is an S section that leads onto the back sweeper then straight and the car will often traction roll near the end of a run coming onto the sweeper. Going 4/5 often fixes this. .
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Old 03-10-2013, 01:22 AM   #5315
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Originally Posted by Benzaah View Post
Ed, thanks or the thorough explanation. The 2 quotes above sum up my confusion. My car struggles in 1 section of the track which is an S section that leads onto the back sweeper then straight and the car will often traction roll near the end of a run coming onto the sweeper. Going 4/5 often fixes this. .
If it works to help stop traction roll, then it's all good

Anyway, spent almost two days solid testing the new car this weekend. Saturday was on a tight twisty indoor track. Traction was ok, and due to the tight nature (and running mod) steering and quick reaction was needed.

Anyway, during practise I managed to work through a lot of spring changes and shock position changes, comparing the yokomo Pink/Blue combo to various Ride set's. Whilst the Pink/Blues felt good initially, I did find that going to hole 5 on the rear tower was needed to get good on power steering.
For the rides, I tested the following (spot the odd ball);
F / R - Green / White - Way too soft, car had no reaction, and lacked steering all over, like it was losing all it's speed. Tried moving rear shocks to hole 5 as well from 4, but no real improvement.
Blue / Yellow - Better than above, but still lacking overall steering.
HPI Silver / Green - Better still, improved a lot the on power, but washing in the middle
Blue / Green - Best balance, really liked this combo, and set my fastest laps of the night on it.
So having found a nice Ride combo... I then changed it and switched back to the Yok springs, seeing if I could get them to work. Didn't make too much of a gain, although going to 4mm on the bumpsteer spacer worked really to gain mid-corner steering. Reducing the camber link spacers 1mm F&R helped with overall reaction and corner speed, but nothing really helped to gain the steering needed on the very tight end of the track.
I did get a bit funky for the last run of the night, moving the camber links to the outer holes on the camber links. This did work out pretty well, car staying very flat and having very good corner speed, but just still not getting into the very tight stuff. With hindsight, really should have thrown a front gear diff in the car, as everyone ahead was running one.
Overall though, a good session with the car, and cleared up a few things in terms of springs.

And onto today... onto an outdoor track with much more flow too it. Rain played a bit of havoc this morning, so rather than a race meet, had a test and tune day. I actually took the opportunity to go back a few settings that I threw at the car for the last run last night, reverting to inner camber link positions, keeping the Yok Springs, and back off the bump steer and ackerman spacers.
Car was much better on this layout, really good corner speed, steering and stability. Main things altered today were;
Standard V2 motor mount - gave the car more stability, reducing (but not eliminating) a tendancy to over-rotate in the middle of the corner
4mm bumpsteer and 2mm ackerman shims - flat out more steering, and really liked the feel of the steering in this configuration.
2k rear diff oil - interestingly, earlier in the day I had an issue with the car wanting to step out on initial throttle, but only intermittently. Going up on the diff oil pretty much resolved that issue, so I can only assume that the diff had been diffing out and then biting.. with the thicker oil tightening up the diff, it was easier to be smoother on the throttle. Also gained forward traction, and made the car a little more predictable into the corners. Based on that, will give 3k a try out next time
I also tried playing with the static wheelbase, by moving both front and rear arms backwards. The idea for that was to put more weight over the front of the car, to gain a bit more initial, and reduce rotation. It did feel pretty nice on track, but unfortunately, the timing software was off during that run, so wasn't able to compare times. Just something else I'll add to the list to try again next time out.

One thing I do really want to work on is to try wider front blocks... still waiting on split 1.5/0.5 blocks to arrive before I can do that. I think a 2.0/1.5 combination on the front will work really well.

Still overall very positive day, posting good time on that layout given condition of the track... driver needs more work than the car does in reality!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf EC - MilleniumRaceway - 090313.pdf (233.3 KB, 77 views)
File Type: pdf EC - LoganPrac - 100313.pdf (233.0 KB, 104 views)
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:13 AM   #5316
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I had a good practice day playing mainly with droop, roll centres and diff oils. After last weeks traction roll issues I felt the front end was too gripped up so i put 1 mm under all the suspension blocks and I ditched the split blocks in the front to run 2.0/1.5 solid blocks. That combined with the standard top deck that Ed cut and the car was weapon. Wish it was easier to fill out and post set up sheets here.
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Old 03-10-2013, 04:40 PM   #5317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
From my experience, a car with less rear droop will have less steering (it's quite a useful thing to try when struggling with traction roll...) simply as there will be less weight transfer forward (on braking)
Less front droop will reduce weight transfer to the back (on acceleration), increasing on power steering.
So from that, comparing a car setup 5F/4R vs 4F/5R, the first should have more steering all round.

Usually, droop works in combination with ride-height, and tyre size... more specifically, it's the up-travel of the car that's the key. What I mean here is, if you put wheels and tyres on the car, and then put it down on the pit table, how far you can lift the chassis before the tyres lift is the key thing to check. Droop, Ride height, and tyre diameter all contribute to how much up-travel the chassis has.
For a higher ride-height, you'll usually want to give the car more droop to maintain the same up-travel.

Also, running less droop on smooth tracks is normally the go, whereas more droop on bumpy tracks can help make the car more stable. Although again that works in combination with ride height, as bumpy tracks normally equals higher ride height.

I have to admit, I normally end up on 5/4 or 5/4.5, and that always seems like a good base to start with. Whilst this weekend indoors I suspect that I'll be lower ride-height, so may go to 5.5/4.5 or 6/5.

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Don't you think it oversteers to much with more droop back than front? i have been struggeling with alot of oversteering(rear end very loose at corner exit) and i readjustet droop from 6F/5R to 5F/6R today and suddenly my S411 was locked up in the rear not loose at all it was driving on rails i'm running ride hight 5mmFront and 5,5mmRear and.I tried all sorts of setup adjustment's on the rear end before this.
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Old 03-10-2013, 06:22 PM   #5318
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Ed, how do you attach the PDF of your set ups to your posts? One thing Xray do well is have an online library of set up sheets and an easy to fill out and save form. Wish serpent had something like this.
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Old 03-11-2013, 03:51 AM   #5319
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Originally Posted by Team_Elli View Post
Don't you think it oversteers to much with more droop back than front? i have been struggeling with alot of oversteering(rear end very loose at corner exit) and i readjustet droop from 6F/5R to 5F/6R today and suddenly my S411 was locked up in the rear not loose at all it was driving on rails i'm running ride hight 5mmFront and 5,5mmRear and.I tried all sorts of setup adjustment's on the rear end before this.
Honestly, no. The car does have a lot of steering, and some of the things I want to test will (hopefully) correct that, but I really haven't found that the car is too taily on exit. As mentioned above, I even went up on diff oil and found it better too. Really is track dependent mind, but whilst I will take a little droop out the rear next time (4.5 or so), certainly don't need to swap round at all.

What other settings did you try on the car?

I will say, really happy with the second (Logan) setup I posted last night, car certainly feels really good to me. I believe it's not far off the ETS settings either, very keen to see what Fischer and co ended up on in Gran Caneria.

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Old 03-11-2013, 04:16 AM   #5320
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Originally Posted by Benzaah View Post
Ed, how do you attach the PDF of your set ups to your posts? One thing Xray do well is have an online library of set up sheets and an easy to fill out and save form. Wish serpent had something like this.
I use the editable sheet from PetitRc, fill in the details, then print out a pdf using Bullzip PDF printer. If you just save a copy as pdf from the editable, the file size is too big to upload, but a printed pdf (which removes all the editable bits) brings the filesize down below the attachment limit

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Old 03-11-2013, 05:59 AM   #5321
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Any input on using the inner hole on the steering spindles? I tried it yesterday on a very tight indoor carpet track with good results. Maybe the change scrubs too much speed on larger tracks.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:27 AM   #5322
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I use the editable sheet from PetitRc, fill in the details, then print out a pdf using Bullzip PDF printer. If you just save a copy as pdf from the editable, the file size is too big to upload, but a printed pdf (which removes all the editable bits) brings the filesize down below the attachment limit

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Old 03-11-2013, 06:35 AM   #5323
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Any input on using the inner hole on the steering spindles? I tried it yesterday on a very tight indoor carpet track with good results. Maybe the change scrubs too much speed on larger tracks.
Never tried it to be honest....only tested it out on the bench a while ago, will have to look back through the notes...

*adds another item to be tested to growing list*
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:15 PM   #5324
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Originally Posted by Holmenkollen View Post
Any input on using the inner hole on the steering spindles? I tried it yesterday on a very tight indoor carpet track with good results. Maybe the change scrubs too much speed on larger tracks.
They will work well on really small tight tracks, but really kills corner speed on anything big with sweeper corners.
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Old 03-12-2013, 09:46 PM   #5325
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Any input on using the inner hole on the steering spindles? I tried it yesterday on a very tight indoor carpet track with good results. Maybe the change scrubs too much speed on larger tracks.
Do you mean the steering knuckle arms, or does steering spindle mean something else?
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