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Old 12-18-2012, 06:23 AM   #4846
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S411xx: http://teamserpent.com/2012/12/marc-...gwy-indoor-gp/

Set-up: http://teamserpent.com/wp-content/up...pent_411xx.pdf

New Chassis 2.0 mm Stiff
New Wishbones Hard
New Shocks
New Shocktower
New Servoholder
New Splitblocks front and rear

Results: http://www.myrcm.ch/fr/mrclongwy/201...IED/index.html
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:26 AM   #4847
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Hey everyone,

I am trying to assembly one gear diff with the xceed plastic gears and there is no way of making it work properly.
First of all, I can't use the main gears as it is impossible to introduce the pin in the outdrives. For the satellites I am having problems to introduce the axles in the housing, it's like they were a bit bigger than the originals.
I have tried to use standard outdrives with metallic main gears and the plastic stuff but it feels so bad that I didn't put it in the car.

how did you make it??

Regars

javier
anyone??

regards
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:32 AM   #4848
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Originally Posted by jimjav View Post
anyone??

regards
How many shims are you using?
I'm not using the Xceed gears, but VBC ones, with the metal main gears. Not butter smooth (still a bit teethy) but better than stock.
The VBC and Xray cross joints also fit, but are tighter than the serpent ones.

Maybe get it as best as you can, then run it in.

HiH
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:34 AM   #4849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjav View Post
Hey everyone,

I am trying to assembly one gear diff with the xceed plastic gears and there is no way of making it work properly.
First of all, I can't use the main gears as it is impossible to introduce the pin in the outdrives. For the satellites I am having problems to introduce the axles in the housing, it's like they were a bit bigger than the originals.
I have tried to use standard outdrives with metallic main gears and the plastic stuff but it feels so bad that I didn't put it in the car.

how did you make it??

Regars

javier
You should only use the 4 small gears and the std Serpent main gears. I had no problems fitting it, use only one shim behind one of the big gears and none on the other. After a couple of batteries the diff is super smooth.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:14 AM   #4850
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So many thanks,

But are you using the xceed gears in a v1 or in a v2?
I have also ordered some vbc diff gears to try

regards
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:56 AM   #4851
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Sounds like you have a V2 diff with the skinny slots for the cross shafts. You will have to get yourself a V1 case to try as this has larger slots. P/N 401412
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:06 AM   #4852
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I have 2 units of each type of gear diff and I have one of each opened in the table to try things with them

I will try with only one shim, but I will also try to find some thinner large shims to have the same play in both outdrives

I will tell you
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:56 AM   #4853
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So, tonight I had a little play around with the steering rack on my car. Given the talk of using FF steering posts recently to lower the rack a little, I had a thought that with the space on the car, possibly it could be lower still, opening up some more options for tuning the bump steer.

The pics show what I ended up with. Flipping the bellcranks (to the original 411 style) and servo post, and then using a 1.5mm shim underneath, the whole rack has dropped about 2.5mm.

With the standard TE rack install, the cross brace is about 11mm off the chassis (pic shows 11.5 ish, but the angle is off), whilst the lowered rack is 8.5mm. Only special parts I needed was a standard nut on the forward screw of the servo mount (third pic), and to trim a little material off the battery brace for full lock. I will also trim down the servo posts for clearance of the servo tie-rod. Clearance is fine, no issues with catching the belt at all

With that setup, running 2.5mm shims on the steering hub gives the same bumpsteer setting as kit, but also means less can be run as well... hopefully will get to try this out this weekend Might need a slight tweak to the ackerman spacers as well though, as a lower outer ball joint will move slightly forward (steering hub is at 4° due to castor), will have a play around with it if I get the chance.

Regards
Ed
Attached Thumbnails
Serpent S411-stock-te.jpg   Serpent S411-modded-te.jpg   Serpent S411-servo-mount.jpg   Serpent S411-battery-brace.jpg   Serpent S411-clearance.jpg  

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Old 12-19-2012, 11:54 PM   #4854
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question:

what effect does using the outboard sway bar location in the rear have? i have both my cars setup with the links in the arms front and rear.
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Old 12-20-2012, 09:01 AM   #4855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjav View Post
anyone??

regards
I have had no luck doing this either. When I have the diff assembled it feels smooth, but any kind of load blows the gears out, thats when running shims or not, its like it just doesn't mesh right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
So, tonight I had a little play around with the steering rack on my car. Given the talk of using FF steering posts recently to lower the rack a little, I had a thought that with the space on the car, possibly it could be lower still, opening up some more options for tuning the bump steer.

The pics show what I ended up with. Flipping the bellcranks (to the original 411 style) and servo post, and then using a 1.5mm shim underneath, the whole rack has dropped about 2.5mm.

With the standard TE rack install, the cross brace is about 11mm off the chassis (pic shows 11.5 ish, but the angle is off), whilst the lowered rack is 8.5mm. Only special parts I needed was a standard nut on the forward screw of the servo mount (third pic), and to trim a little material off the battery brace for full lock. I will also trim down the servo posts for clearance of the servo tie-rod. Clearance is fine, no issues with catching the belt at all

With that setup, running 2.5mm shims on the steering hub gives the same bumpsteer setting as kit, but also means less can be run as well... hopefully will get to try this out this weekend Might need a slight tweak to the ackerman spacers as well though, as a lower outer ball joint will move slightly forward (steering hub is at 4° due to castor), will have a play around with it if I get the chance.

Regards
Ed
I will have to give this a try.

Another thought I had which I've tried, but would like to see what you think ED, is on the shock towers. I removed the lower screw and replaced it with long set screw, to act like a pin and then just use the top screw to secure it to the upper bulkheads. Much like the pinned shock towers of the Yok. The only think was that the long set screw needed to loc-tited in.
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:29 PM   #4856
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Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone View Post
I have had no luck doing this either. When I have the diff assembled it feels smooth, but any kind of load blows the gears out, thats when running shims or not, its like it just doesn't mesh right.



I will have to give this a try.

Another thought I had which I've tried, but would like to see what you think ED, is on the shock towers. I removed the lower screw and replaced it with long set screw, to act like a pin and then just use the top screw to secure it to the upper bulkheads. Much like the pinned shock towers of the Yok. The only think was that the long set screw needed to loc-tited in.
What would the advantage be of a pinned shock tower? All I can think of is chassis flex laterally, but there are so many other variable that would be more effective ... i.e. split blocks.
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:14 AM   #4857
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Originally Posted by valk View Post
question:

what effect does using the outboard sway bar location in the rear have? i have both my cars setup with the links in the arms front and rear.
Missed this. I find the out positons makes the bar feel a tad softer, but also more linear.

Or to put it another way... I only run the 1.4mm bar in the outer position on the rear...
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Old 12-21-2012, 08:20 AM   #4858
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I dont think my package came with any parts to make links for the outer location, so that makes the decision easier lol. the difference in these bars is pretty subtle without taking them out ive noticed. the 1.2 and 1.4 bars look and feel identical as the stripes are covered by the center'er.
actually had a 1.4 in the back of my stock car without really noticing lol.


for my mod car, i had it setup pretty much the same as my stock one with a little more droop and lower rollcenters a little. i dont run mod locally so what other differences should i try? the cars should drive the same at the same speed, but they dont lol. i use a ton of negative expo trying to keep the power in check on a 12th scale track but the rear end still comes around quite easily.
the stock car is planted and very easy to drive, but the mod car, with 90% of the same setup and same tires is a drift car even at low throttle lol.

also, this car doesnt seem to have a wide steering angle.
on my stands, i try to set my touring cars up to 25š full lock but this car doesnt seem to go that far? im running pancar servo savers on both so they should have enough swing but the link will hit the swingrack before i get to 25š

ill have to watch some faster serpent guys at speed weekend i guess to see what they are doing. ill probably take both cars appart and assemble as per kit as i received them preassembled.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:53 AM   #4859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valk View Post
I dont think my package came with any parts to make links for the outer location, so that makes the decision easier lol. the difference in these bars is pretty subtle without taking them out ive noticed. the 1.2 and 1.4 bars look and feel identical as the stripes are covered by the center'er.
actually had a 1.4 in the back of my stock car without really noticing lol.


for my mod car, i had it setup pretty much the same as my stock one with a little more droop and lower rollcenters a little. i dont run mod locally so what other differences should i try? the cars should drive the same at the same speed, but they dont lol. i use a ton of negative expo trying to keep the power in check on a 12th scale track but the rear end still comes around quite easily.
the stock car is planted and very easy to drive, but the mod car, with 90% of the same setup and same tires is a drift car even at low throttle lol.

also, this car doesnt seem to have a wide steering angle.
on my stands, i try to set my touring cars up to 25š full lock but this car doesnt seem to go that far? im running pancar servo savers on both so they should have enough swing but the link will hit the swingrack before i get to 25š

ill have to watch some faster serpent guys at speed weekend i guess to see what they are doing. ill probably take both cars appart and assemble as per kit as i received them preassembled.
I drive on really tight tracks with 4.5-5.5t motors and donīt need any more than 85-90 percent DR to get around. Really tight tracks. Try anyone of Rasmus Callesen mod setups as a base, itīs pretty solid on most tracks. I feel that a gear diff with 500.000 cst is really good in front on tight tracks. With the stock gear diffs which IMO are a little tight I run really thin oils like 35-50 wt in the rear. The rear end is really planted.

I`ve never raced anything else than touring mod so I canīt really compare a stock setup vs. a mod setup.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:05 PM   #4860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valk View Post
I dont think my package came with any parts to make links for the outer location, so that makes the decision easier lol. the difference in these bars is pretty subtle without taking them out ive noticed. the 1.2 and 1.4 bars look and feel identical as the stripes are covered by the center'er.
actually had a 1.4 in the back of my stock car without really noticing lol.


for my mod car, i had it setup pretty much the same as my stock one with a little more droop and lower rollcenters a little. i dont run mod locally so what other differences should i try? the cars should drive the same at the same speed, but they dont lol. i use a ton of negative expo trying to keep the power in check on a 12th scale track but the rear end still comes around quite easily.
the stock car is planted and very easy to drive, but the mod car, with 90% of the same setup and same tires is a drift car even at low throttle lol.

also, this car doesnt seem to have a wide steering angle.
on my stands, i try to set my touring cars up to 25š full lock but this car doesnt seem to go that far? im running pancar servo savers on both so they should have enough swing but the link will hit the swingrack before i get to 25š

ill have to watch some faster serpent guys at speed weekend i guess to see what they are doing. ill probably take both cars appart and assemble as per kit as i received them preassembled.
You don't get the parts to assemble the longer rear links in the kit, they are a "make your own" item. I used some spare ball joints, cups, and a long set screw to make them up.

As for a setup between mod and stock, my mod car is setup a lot softer in spring rates compared to my stock car. It's actually something I've been noticing more and more with setups recently (and not just for this car) but there is a progression towards soft springs (talking 13lb / 2.5's) for mod, whilst stock setups seem to be fairly stiff still.

I don't actually race carpet anymore, it's asphalt only for me, but my two cars are setup very close now, with the exception of the spring's/shock positions.

HiH
Ed
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