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Old 11-26-2012, 08:04 PM   #4726
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Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone View Post
Its makes the only servo mount point down the center of the chassis. Raises the outer mount point 1mm higher then when using the stock mount so it gives better clearance on hard chassis roll situations, actually now the chassis rail hits before the servo touches. I've never gone back to the original once I did this mod, so its pretty bullet proof, no failures yet. Its very easy to do the only catch is getting the bottom plate material, from there 3 holes drilled in the plate and its done.

Was it worth it? I think its made the car just more consistent. It also allows you to run a servo saver without clearance problems. If you don't like the mod, nothing in the stock parts where modified, so you can always go back (don't think you will though).

If your going to the Airdrie WCIC race come over and you can see the mod.
Gary, could you post a couple of good pics showing us how you went about this mod?
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:42 AM   #4727
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:37 PM   #4728
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Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone View Post
I'm not familiar with the QTS 32 tires, but do they have a taller side wall than a JACO Blue? I'm just wondering if some of the problem is the sidewall is breaking down as the tire warms up. I would be tempted to glue up the sidewalls of the front and rear tires and try that. This can also be used to help eliminate traction roll problems.

If your going to play with the arm sweep, remember that when you do this you are also effecting several other adjustments on the car, wheelbase, shock angle side and forward/back, roll stiffness........pretty much everthing thats hooked up to the front of the car, so perhaps if you like the slight push of the car, instead of the arm sweep, try shock angle and maybe a little different toe setting. Just saying sweep is a big adjustment. Or just try a bigger rear torsion bar to get the front to turn a little better.

What you felt in the medium arms is the same for myself, never really felt they are that bad, just not as prenonced a feel everytime.

For the snap try to move the shock top out one hole.
Ended up doing several changes, none of them really planned. Working with another guy at the track with a T4, we found out that I have a pretty nasty tweak in my chassis. Lossened everything, and it's still there. It is worse with the battery taped down, and it is very possible I induced that tweak with the battery tape tightened. Did my best to adjust around it, but not sure how long it has been there as I can get the chassis to sit flat, but it shows the issue on a tweak board.

I changed the springs to much softer, 13.5 front, 12.5 rear and went to a front spool. I made some minor roll center changes as well. The snap in the back is mostly gone, though the car in general is much less consistent and not sure how I like it. I liked the softer springs, but up in the air on the spool. It pulls much harder out of the corners though, and noticably increased my acceleration.

I would like to try the arm sweep just to see what it does, but it is good to know that I need to get it back on the board afterwards. I was thinking about 2.1/1.5 instead of 2/2 which should give me a similar width to what I have now. Maybe next weekend.

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Originally Posted by cwoods34 View Post
100k in the front is way too thin. This would be the #1 cause of your on-power push. I wouldn't run less than 500k.....

I would go to thinner oil in the rear diff to prevent the snap. If you are getting on the throttle hard and one wheel slips, it is more likely to cause the other tire to slip with thicker diff oils. 2000 sounds too thick to me, especially on lower bite. 1500 felt fine to me even on higher traction. I'd always start at 1000 and go from there.

Arm sweep is a little hard to tune with if you aren't accustomed to how your car feels. Let's say you have a very balanced steering feel... in terms of entry/mid/exit, we'll say it's split 33/33/33. Anytime I've added arm sweep (.5 to 1*) it felt like it would change the split to 25/50/25.... I noticed a hair more push entry and initial exit, but the car rotated a bit more midcorner. When I ran a TC6 (first gen) our cars were always a little pushy when set right for our grip level. On some of the tighter layouts I would add about a degree of arm sweep to change the rotation point. You could sort of relate it to changing ackerman settings, except that ackerman settings also affect the grip generated by the tires due to slip angle.... any extra grip generated by the arm sweep isn't as noticeable as an ackerman adjustment (more of a "feel").

And 36 runs on the tires?!? Throw them away! They will do NOTHING for you with that much track time on them.

Hope this helps!
Yeah, I get that a lot about the front diff oil. I know some running at the track with as little as 20k and others with 300k. Most are using a spool though. The fastest guy with a diff has 300k, but he is also much more consistent of a driver (and is about a tenth faster then me with my diff). TC6.1 and a lot of other differences as well though.

Tires have been officially retired at 44 runs. They still look pretty good, though one has a pretty nasty grove formed in it from the insert. Our track is not very balanced, with 2 right hand 180's, 1 left hand 180, a right hand sweeper, and 3 chicanes, and we burn up left fronts. They still felt good, and going to a much less used set (~12 runs), I did not notice any difference. The tires are as consistent as Sweeps ever are for me, but I have a new set ready to scrub in as well.

Will report back after the weekend.

Thanks again for all the help!
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:44 PM   #4729
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For what it's worth, we have a very bumpy track and I've changed both of my chassis to 500k gear diffs to get more consistent steering. In 17.5 blinky, it accelerates the same. In mod, it definitely puts more power down with the spool but it's just too difficult for me to handle. There's a bottle of 1000k oil waiting for me at the post office, so I'll try that out in coming weeks.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:07 PM   #4730
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Originally Posted by damage View Post
Gary, could you post a couple of good pics showing us how you went about this mod?
I'll try to get some pics of a couple of the mods I've done, but it will have to be after the WCIC race now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
Ended up doing several changes, none of them really planned. Working with another guy at the track with a T4, we found out that I have a pretty nasty tweak in my chassis. Lossened everything, and it's still there. It is worse with the battery taped down, and it is very possible I induced that tweak with the battery tape tightened. Did my best to adjust around it, but not sure how long it has been there as I can get the chassis to sit flat, but it shows the issue on a tweak board.

I changed the springs to much softer, 13.5 front, 12.5 rear and went to a front spool. I made some minor roll center changes as well. The snap in the back is mostly gone, though the car in general is much less consistent and not sure how I like it. I liked the softer springs, but up in the air on the spool. It pulls much harder out of the corners though, and noticably increased my acceleration.

I would like to try the arm sweep just to see what it does, but it is good to know that I need to get it back on the board afterwards. I was thinking about 2.1/1.5 instead of 2/2 which should give me a similar width to what I have now. Maybe next weekend.



Yeah, I get that a lot about the front diff oil. I know some running at the track with as little as 20k and others with 300k. Most are using a spool though. The fastest guy with a diff has 300k, but he is also much more consistent of a driver (and is about a tenth faster then me with my diff). TC6.1 and a lot of other differences as well though.

Tires have been officially retired at 44 runs. They still look pretty good, though one has a pretty nasty grove formed in it from the insert. Our track is not very balanced, with 2 right hand 180's, 1 left hand 180, a right hand sweeper, and 3 chicanes, and we burn up left fronts. They still felt good, and going to a much less used set (~12 runs), I did not notice any difference. The tires are as consistent as Sweeps ever are for me, but I have a new set ready to scrub in as well.

Will report back after the weekend.

Thanks again for all the help!
Also check your top deck to make sure its flat. Try and get as much of your tweak out of the car as you can, but throw that tweak board away and find my post about setting your car "squared", it takes into account differences that a tweak board says are there. The "squared" method is a turer real race application and takes into account any suspension short comings that a tweak board will mask. Once you get the hang of this method you'll throw the tweak board away, lol. Its like the 6 hole piston shocks, trust me, lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post
For what it's worth, we have a very bumpy track and I've changed both of my chassis to 500k gear diffs to get more consistent steering. In 17.5 blinky, it accelerates the same. In mod, it definitely puts more power down with the spool but it's just too difficult for me to handle. There's a bottle of 1000k oil waiting for me at the post office, so I'll try that out in coming weeks.
I've also been running the front diffs with different lubes. What I've found is both cars are easier to drive. The car with the 500k front lube after the run and the diff is warmed up, the 500k seems to loosen up and gives a more "diff" feeling less drag or locked feel like a spool. The car with the OFNA diff locker in seems to stay consisiant for the entire run, or at least the diff seems to stay in a more locked feel than the 500k diff. I think if I where to run a lot of mod I'd be tempted to run the 500k in it just so the car has a good turn in feel towards the end of the run and less of a push feel, but this would be a personal feel sort of setup.

Just wondering if anyone has tried the "foam earplug and oil" in the front diff? I hear (no pun) that it works just about as good as locker compound but is much easier to clean out if diff maintanence is required.
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:30 PM   #4731
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Serpent sell-off. Absolutely nothing against the car..... just that another opportunity might present itself.

Serpent S411 Roller -- Loaded w/spares!

And 500k in mod feels good on carpet, particularly less than ideal traction.... asphalt I would think it'd heat up too much. I also like "cleaning putty" with oil.... I bought a kneadable eraser (craft store) and mixed it with oil, same result.... didn't seem as prone to overheating like traditional diff fluid on asphalt!
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:04 AM   #4732
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Serpent sell-off. Absolutely nothing against the car..... just that another opportunity might present itself.

Serpent S411 Roller -- Loaded w/spares!

And 500k in mod feels good on carpet, particularly less than ideal traction.... asphalt I would think it'd heat up too much. I also like "cleaning putty" with oil.... I bought a kneadable eraser (craft store) and mixed it with oil, same result.... didn't seem as prone to overheating like traditional diff fluid on asphalt!
sad to see you go another route but that means we can punt you off without feeling sorry

thanks for the tip. I ll test that out at the up coming event.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:28 AM   #4733
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Hey guys last weekend was the indoor champs. Here is the race report with setup. Sorry about the typo's lol

http://teamserpent.com/2012/11/usa-t...indoor-champs/
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:33 PM   #4734
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Good Job Alston.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:38 PM   #4735
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Well guys, I have here a V2 steering rack that has fell apart on me. I take it It's not the first time it's happened. How are you guys glueing it back together? I don't have the necessary washers for the one mod

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Old 11-29-2012, 06:23 PM   #4736
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Hey guys last weekend was the indoor champs. Here is the race report with setup. Sorry about the typo's lol

http://teamserpent.com/2012/11/usa-t...indoor-champs/
Congrats Alston and John Lee, great write up.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:40 PM   #4737
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johnny:

i haven't really messed with either of the cars since i got them. basically refilled the shocks on the mod car and dropped electrics into it. i assume its setup stock but ill probably strip them both down and put them together again, as anyone should do when receiving a used car i guess.

Any recommendations for good starting carpet setup for stock and mod cars? our event is the old style crc carpet. dispite racing on it all year, the layout changes weekly as its a gym track. traction doesn't come up for 3 heats generally.

asking you because i imagine the other WCICS events spec the jaco blue tires as well.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:42 PM   #4738
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Well guys, I have here a V2 steering rack that has fell apart on me. I take it It's not the first time it's happened. How are you guys glueing it back together? I don't have the necessary washers for the one mod

Boy, without any washers available its fixable but will probably continue to happen. All you really need is a couple thin flat washers and 4 to 6 motor shim washers from a old brushed motor. The flat washers I use are the thin throw away ones that Xray includes with their kits, used to install the shock ball studs. There must be someone you could snag a couple from, once they built their shocks they never use them again.

In any matter to fix it, I would probably opt for green or red loctite over glue to put them back. Make sure you pack them with a good amount of oil in case you get a spill of locking fluid in the bearing, hopefully its enough that you could wash out the bearing if you have to. So you'll need a thin washer again, use a q-tip to spread a thin coat of loctite in the rack bearing hole you plan on putting the bearing in. You only need a really thin coat so be stingy when you apply it. Take a long screw, put the bearing on the screw, then the thin washer (motor shim washer) and put it in the hole in the rack you're re-installing the bearing, now tighten it to one of the steering arms, using it to pull the bearing into place on the rack, and using the thin washer to get the proper spacing between the bearing and the arm. Do the same thing for the other side, then let the loctite to setup.

Good luck.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:54 PM   #4739
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johnny:

i haven't really messed with either of the cars since i got them. basically refilled the shocks on the mod car and dropped electrics into it. i assume its setup stock but ill probably strip them both down and put them together again, as anyone should do when receiving a used car i guess.

Any recommendations for good starting carpet setup for stock and mod cars? our event is the old style crc carpet. dispite racing on it all year, the layout changes weekly as its a gym track. traction doesn't come up for 3 heats generally.

asking you because i imagine the other WCICS events spec the jaco blue tires as well.
I'd run the stock setup from the WCIC Edmonton race. I would go back to the stock 2.0mm top deck and dope the tires with SXT but do the tires at least 2 times in a 20 minute span, only doing 3/4 of the front tire. If you find you need a little more front end do the whole front tire, but only once 10 to 15 minutes before your run.

The setup works really well and if you get a chance to try this setup a couple of times you'll find you can do the front and rear tires the same way and then compensate your driving as the tires warm up.

Good luck and any other questions please feel free to ask.
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:04 PM   #4740
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Couple questions about that setup;
seriously, 2k cst for shock oil? any associated or xray springs that compare to those ones you listed? and are you measuring your downstop with a downstop gauge, or over ride height?
2.5 seems like a lot of downtravel is all i ask
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