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Old 11-23-2012, 10:46 AM   #4711
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I would have thought the opposite, but let us know what you find.
Not sure, hence the question. I'll try it tonight and see what happens.
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Old 11-23-2012, 02:40 PM   #4712
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Just an update.

Went to the track last night after the tracks GM finished Thanksgiving and the 2 of us ran laps late into the night with our TC's.

Track was cold, temp at the carpet around 61*. Running well used Sweep QTS 32's (36 batteries on them previous to last night). Front end felt like it had a little too much grip and was overworking the rear. I could induce traction roll with too violent of a steering correction, especially in the chicanes. Increased the spacers on the rear upper outer links from 1mm to 2mm and moved the front upper shock mounts to the 2nd hole from the outside. Car felt really good, but developed a bit of an on power push. One thing I have not tried yet is running a wider front front block and a narrower front rear (called arm sweep I think?). This would build toe out into the suspension geometry. I would still run 0.5* toe out on each side, but I am wondering how this might affect the on-power push? I might also drop the shocks back in a little, as the rear roll center changes might have been enough.

I am running 2* blocks front and rear on the front right now, and would probably do 2.5 front, 1.5 rear to try and maintain the front track, and then adjust from there.

I also broke both rear arms (2 seperate incidents) last Saturday. Replaced the hards with mediums (all I had left), and the car got slightly lazier in the rear, but actually felt a little more stable. I am definitely losing rear traction by the end of 6 minutes, and actually will sometimes get an almost uncontrollable snap out of the rear end when I get on the throttle too hard out of a 180*. Would thicker rear diff oil possibly help this? I am still running 100k front, 2k rear (have not sourced the thicker front oil yet).
I'm not familiar with the QTS 32 tires, but do they have a taller side wall than a JACO Blue? I'm just wondering if some of the problem is the sidewall is breaking down as the tire warms up. I would be tempted to glue up the sidewalls of the front and rear tires and try that. This can also be used to help eliminate traction roll problems.

If your going to play with the arm sweep, remember that when you do this you are also effecting several other adjustments on the car, wheelbase, shock angle side and forward/back, roll stiffness........pretty much everthing thats hooked up to the front of the car, so perhaps if you like the slight push of the car, instead of the arm sweep, try shock angle and maybe a little different toe setting. Just saying sweep is a big adjustment. Or just try a bigger rear torsion bar to get the front to turn a little better.

What you felt in the medium arms is the same for myself, never really felt they are that bad, just not as prenonced a feel everytime.

For the snap try to move the shock top out one hole.
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Last edited by Johnny Wishbone; 11-23-2012 at 02:51 PM.
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Old 11-23-2012, 03:35 PM   #4713
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Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
Just an update.

Went to the track last night after the tracks GM finished Thanksgiving and the 2 of us ran laps late into the night with our TC's.

Track was cold, temp at the carpet around 61*. Running well used Sweep QTS 32's (36 batteries on them previous to last night). Front end felt like it had a little too much grip and was overworking the rear. I could induce traction roll with too violent of a steering correction, especially in the chicanes. Increased the spacers on the rear upper outer links from 1mm to 2mm and moved the front upper shock mounts to the 2nd hole from the outside. Car felt really good, but developed a bit of an on power push. One thing I have not tried yet is running a wider front front block and a narrower front rear (called arm sweep I think?). This would build toe out into the suspension geometry. I would still run 0.5* toe out on each side, but I am wondering how this might affect the on-power push? I might also drop the shocks back in a little, as the rear roll center changes might have been enough.

I am running 2* blocks front and rear on the front right now, and would probably do 2.5 front, 1.5 rear to try and maintain the front track, and then adjust from there.

I also broke both rear arms (2 seperate incidents) last Saturday. Replaced the hards with mediums (all I had left), and the car got slightly lazier in the rear, but actually felt a little more stable. I am definitely losing rear traction by the end of 6 minutes, and actually will sometimes get an almost uncontrollable snap out of the rear end when I get on the throttle too hard out of a 180*. Would thicker rear diff oil possibly help this? I am still running 100k front, 2k rear (have not sourced the thicker front oil yet).
100k in the front is way too thin. This would be the #1 cause of your on-power push. I wouldn't run less than 500k.....

I would go to thinner oil in the rear diff to prevent the snap. If you are getting on the throttle hard and one wheel slips, it is more likely to cause the other tire to slip with thicker diff oils. 2000 sounds too thick to me, especially on lower bite. 1500 felt fine to me even on higher traction. I'd always start at 1000 and go from there.

Arm sweep is a little hard to tune with if you aren't accustomed to how your car feels. Let's say you have a very balanced steering feel... in terms of entry/mid/exit, we'll say it's split 33/33/33. Anytime I've added arm sweep (.5 to 1*) it felt like it would change the split to 25/50/25.... I noticed a hair more push entry and initial exit, but the car rotated a bit more midcorner. When I ran a TC6 (first gen) our cars were always a little pushy when set right for our grip level. On some of the tighter layouts I would add about a degree of arm sweep to change the rotation point. You could sort of relate it to changing ackerman settings, except that ackerman settings also affect the grip generated by the tires due to slip angle.... any extra grip generated by the arm sweep isn't as noticeable as an ackerman adjustment (more of a "feel").

And 36 runs on the tires?!? Throw them away! They will do NOTHING for you with that much track time on them.

Hope this helps!
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Old 11-23-2012, 05:21 PM   #4714
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[quote=Steve S;11471295]Any chance you could share the weight of that body? I hate painting [/quotethe body is 3.8 oz.
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Old 11-25-2012, 11:00 PM   #4715
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I am very interested in running this chassis at my local VTA series track, do you have any pointers on setup for VTA or will box stock settings do the trick?

Thanks
Sean
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Old 11-25-2012, 11:00 PM   #4716
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I am very interested in running this chassis at my local VTA series track, do you have any pointers on setup for VTA or will box stock settings do the trick?

Thanks
Sean
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:47 AM   #4717
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I urge everyone to put in plastic Xceed small gears in the gear diffs, big difference. No more sudden snaps at corner exit and overall much more consistent. Picked up a tenth on the hot lap too.
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Old 11-26-2012, 10:23 AM   #4718
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anyone using the http://www.serpent.com/product/401421/ rear hubs and have a problem with the rear toe bing off?
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:11 AM   #4719
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I have not used the aluminum uprights, but I have noticed the toe being inconsistent between plastic uprights.

Speaking of aluminum parts, anyone have experience with the steering blocks? Are they reasonably bend-proof?
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:32 AM   #4720
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I urge everyone to put in plastic Xceed small gears in the gear diffs, big difference. No more sudden snaps at corner exit and overall much more consistent. Picked up a tenth on the hot lap too.
Whats the part number on these!!!
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:18 PM   #4721
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Whats the part number on these!!!
108248 with outdrives
108243 w/o drives

I have both in stock. 15 and 10 euros respectively

To use all gears you need the one with outdrives. But then you can get the one without for spares.

Send me an email at serdar.aytemiz@evilrc.com if you need some.

I will have an English shop soon so it Willie much easier to get stuff
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:29 PM   #4722
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I have not used the aluminum uprights, but I have noticed the toe being inconsistent between plastic uprights.

Speaking of aluminum parts, anyone have experience with the steering blocks? Are they reasonably bend-proof?
Nothing is bent proof. That said knuckles and uprights are pretty sturdy. The c hubs are more fragile.
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:07 PM   #4723
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That's really close to what I ended up with. The only things different on mine is, my bottom plate is extended out enough so that I use the outside servo post and I use the original inside servo post. The material I used is exceptionally thin, it is actually the end plate from a carbon fiber wing for 1/12th that Trinity used to make in the late 80's early 90's, probably 1.0mm thick. Then I used the 1mm spacers between the chassis and the modded servo plate. I measured this after it was totally assembled and so far it manages to keep the 1mm spacing consistent across the entire servo and has virtually no deflection when the steering is moved back and forth, so I feel like its a pretty solid mount. I will be putting it thru race conditions tomorrow, and the way I've been driving lately, this will be a true torture test, lol.
What was the result of this? Was it worth doing?
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Old 11-26-2012, 06:33 PM   #4724
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What was the result of this? Was it worth doing?
Its makes the only servo mount point down the center of the chassis. Raises the outer mount point 1mm higher then when using the stock mount so it gives better clearance on hard chassis roll situations, actually now the chassis rail hits before the servo touches. I've never gone back to the original once I did this mod, so its pretty bullet proof, no failures yet. Its very easy to do the only catch is getting the bottom plate material, from there 3 holes drilled in the plate and its done.

Was it worth it? I think its made the car just more consistent. It also allows you to run a servo saver without clearance problems. If you don't like the mod, nothing in the stock parts where modified, so you can always go back (don't think you will though).

If your going to the Airdrie WCIC race come over and you can see the mod.
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Old 11-26-2012, 07:40 PM   #4725
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Originally Posted by BLKNOTCH View Post
I am very interested in running this chassis at my local VTA series track, do you have any pointers on setup for VTA or will box stock settings do the trick?

Thanks
Sean
in kit form, the car would be fine as a VTA... no real parts outside of your typical spares.
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