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Old 11-17-2012, 03:47 PM   #4651
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rcxx shocks have teh bladders? i have both types. bladdered and not. i pushed the shaft all the way in before inserting it with the non bladdered ones. still 30ish % rebound. tough to get the rebound speed consistant this way.. havent opened up my te yet but i was following Chris Grainger.s youtube illustration on all the bladder shocks ive owned.
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:32 PM   #4652
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rcxx shocks have teh bladders? i have both types. bladdered and not. i pushed the shaft all the way in before inserting it with the non bladdered ones. still 30ish % rebound. tough to get the rebound speed consistant this way.. havent opened up my te yet but i was following Chris Grainger.s youtube illustration on all the bladder shocks ive owned.
RCXX shocks are the originals, no bladders, bottom loaders.

RCM shocks are the new shocks, have bladders, top loaders.

If you're looking for 0 rebound shocks, did you drill the top caps on the RCM shocks? To get 0 rebound with the RCXX shocks, requires more work, same procedure, just don't use the fuel line, unfortunately its a fine line between 0 rebound and a shock with air, sometimes has to be done several times before you get it right. The nice part is the RCXX doesn't require a lot of time to get the air out, just pour the oil like you would a beer that you don't want a head on.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:23 PM   #4653
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Any luck with the measurements? FYI, I can tell you with the stock pieces and the flipped steering posts, there is no way that I can run 3mm of ackerman, the most before it starts to hit the front/rear suspension block is 1.5mm...........so I'm guessing the Tamiya arms are shorter.
You are correct - the Tamiya arms are shorter.

Tamiya steering arm - 17.70mm
Serpent steering arm - 19.40mm

The measurements were done from the center of the screw on both mounting holes.

The height of the Tamiya posts are 2.5mm (the typical flipped steering rack mod requires 4.5mm of spacing).

I suspect the combination of moving the rack rearward along with lower it (and its effects on bump-steer) is what is giving the linear feeling steering. Typically, if you move the rack closer to the centerline of the car, it increases the cars initial steering - however, in this case, it did not. Rather, it calmed the car down which I suspect is the post height entirely.
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Old 11-18-2012, 02:37 AM   #4654
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comparing the new shocks to my tc5 shocks, it should be straight forward to get consistant rebound. i drilled those caps out and they were brilliant. refilled very fast, consistant zero rebount.

ran the car tonight pretty much out of the box as i received it,refilled the rcxx shocks with 30wt, yellow springs front, white rearm, 1.2 rear bar. 7.5 turn boost.. car was pretty easy to drive on our indoor 12th track with 6 ft lanes. happy so far!

the TE car though needs a little attention... .. the other car has a silky smooth gear dif and the TE car, though brand new, built and unrun, has a somewhat clicky and grabby dif. i just tore it down to parts, reassembled it with 70wt ae shock oil for shits and giggles and its still clicky and grabby.. is there any prep im supposed to do to this dif prior to assembly? seems the gears just don't mesh well at all.

planning to run the non te car in mod. and the te car in stock as its the newer of the two. stock is 17.5 blinky here.

forgive the typing errors for i have had half a gallon of wine....post race.. of course.
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Old 11-18-2012, 05:36 AM   #4655
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Valk, I'm pretty new to this car but a few pages back there is talk about breaking the V2 diff in with some kind of a lapping compound.
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Old 11-18-2012, 06:43 AM   #4656
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Default interesting reads...

I always find it interesting and informational in how you guys analyze setups and the things you try to make the car even better.

However, this is a note for folks who are weekend warriors that are somewhat intimidated with the complexity that is 4WD sedan chassis tuning;

For folks just wanting a solid well engineered car, that is a joy to own and drive, the S411 has exceeded all of my expectations. I've been running this chassis since it first came out (S411TE).

I threw an early "Johnny Wishbone" medium bite carpet setup from some club race - it's on petitrc from (06.12.2011). The only thing I've done differently is flip the steering rack, which is pretty much standard fare by now.

How does it drive?

Awesome, I see nothing to change, it does nothing strange, other than obey my wonky input. It does exactly as I tell it. Easy to drive, tons of forward bite and just the right amount of side bite. Steering is absolutely telepathic - so much resolution.

Not changing and fiddling is blasphemy here I'm sure, but for those getting into this class, you don't HAVE to do that. Find a competent tuner "Johnny Wishbones" setup seems to work for me, and drive it. Let the guys that do this with more passion figure the next great setup out. I get to spend more time on the track practicing and less time wrenching - what could be better? Perhaps I just stumbled on a setup that suits me?

I'm just digg'in this car, and having all the fun in the world.
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:05 PM   #4657
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would a body shop polishing compound achieve the same results?

ps, are your coming out to wcics - victoria johnny?
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:28 PM   #4658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valk View Post
comparing the new shocks to my tc5 shocks, it should be straight forward to get consistant rebound. i drilled those caps out and they were brilliant. refilled very fast, consistant zero rebount.

ran the car tonight pretty much out of the box as i received it,refilled the rcxx shocks with 30wt, yellow springs front, white rearm, 1.2 rear bar. 7.5 turn boost.. car was pretty easy to drive on our indoor 12th track with 6 ft lanes. happy so far!

the TE car though needs a little attention... .. the other car has a silky smooth gear dif and the TE car, though brand new, built and unrun, has a somewhat clicky and grabby dif. i just tore it down to parts, reassembled it with 70wt ae shock oil for shits and giggles and its still clicky and grabby.. is there any prep im supposed to do to this dif prior to assembly? seems the gears just don't mesh well at all.

planning to run the non te car in mod. and the te car in stock as its the newer of the two. stock is 17.5 blinky here.

forgive the typing errors for i have had half a gallon of wine....post race.. of course.
How many shims do you use behind the gears? I have found that the mesh is best with no shims at all! (or one on one side)

Currently I'm using a V2 diff with 4 small Xceed plastic gears(the large ones are original), with no shims at all... and the diff is SUPER smooth!
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:50 PM   #4659
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i just used whatever was in it. one of the large shims behind each outdrive gear. built to manual specs i imagine.
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:56 PM   #4660
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How many shims do you use behind the gears? I have found that the mesh is best with no shims at all! (or one on one side)

Currently I'm using a V2 diff with 4 small Xceed plastic gears(the large ones are original), with no shims at all... and the diff is SUPER smooth!
I'm using that combination (V2 diff, 4 xceed gears, no big shims). One diff works great the other failed yesterday all four gears striped. I was running mod (5.5T Reedy Sonic).
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:58 PM   #4661
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would a body shop polishing compound achieve the same results?

ps, are your coming out to wcics - victoria johnny?
Oh boy I done that and it's such a mess

It's very hard to get the parts really clean ...
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Old 11-18-2012, 02:03 PM   #4662
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so then, would the dif clean itself up after a few packs on the track then?
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Old 11-18-2012, 04:45 PM   #4663
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Hello my fellow 411 drivers...

Due to bureaucracy and politics, we lost our local indoor carpet racing track and I am now left with a great car with no place to race(not close by at least). I dont wanna sell this car so im left with turning it into a street speed demon or a drift car.

turning it into a speed demon seems to be the easiest task since it will only need a very low turn motor, but to turn it into a drift car, i read somewhere that it would be best to put a one way bearing in the front and lock up the rear. My question is, do they have a one way that would fit the s411? and link would be greatly appreciated and thanks for your time reading my post.
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Old 11-18-2012, 06:30 PM   #4664
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Default My thoughts exactly!

Celt,

I feel the same way you do. I got into racing back in 1999 when nitro TC was hot. From nitro it went to electric and then offroad took over. Now with the opening of two new onroad tracks around me I've gone back to onroad. I'm no goodwrench when it comes to setup discovery. I like to try what has worked for other drivers. Never know, it might just happen to be the one for my style of driving (still can't describe that). The last TC I had was a TRF416 WE. For my driving style(?), it was a bit on the brittle side. I amagine over the last few years the technology has improved these cars to the point that their almost effortless to drive. If thats not the case then everyone needs to get one of these cars. I bought the S411 I have used and I'm not sure of the oil setup on the car, but it from the first time I put it on the track it felt like I've been wheeling it for years. Awsome car to say the least.
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:45 PM   #4665
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Default FYI Diffs

I have pretty much ran everything thru these diffs to get them to feel smooth and I'm still looking for the magic formula. I've used lapping compound, tooth paste, polishing compound, ran them on the track, chucked them up in a drill press and let them run one direction and then the other for a hour........gone as far as wore out one casing running anything I could think of only to still not get that silky feeling diff.

Here is part of the problem if you use the lapping compound, the gears are steel and the shaft is hard coated aluminum, as you run it more and more the aluminum shaft gets worn more on the torque end of the shaft and then the gears get sloppy on the shaft. The plastic hub section of the diff housing also starts to wear and again the output shafts will start to wobble as this wears out.

You can run without any of the shims, big ones or the small ones, but as the gears break in the lash opens up and then the potential for them to jam up and lock the diff exists. Since we really don't have a reliable way to check the backlash when the diff is assembled its really trial and error. I have some diffs with no shims, some with either just the large or the small shims, and some with all the shims in. Some feel tight, and some feel less tight, but they all feel notchy. The only time they feel better is as I go up in thickness of diff fluid, where a diff with 700 will have not as much drag feel, but still have a notchy feel to it. The same diff, going to 2000, will have more of a drag feel, but the notchy feel is much less.

I start to wonder if some of the issue is that the silicon diff fluids we use are too good and don't provide enough stick to the face of the teeth of the gears, so we don't get that cushion that we seem to need to get the diffs feeling better.

I also tried the Xceede plastic gears in the diff using the stock big gears, so I could use the stock outdrives, they only lasted one run. If I where to do this again, I would run this setup with all the shims in, as I think the only reason why I wrecked the plastic gears was because the lash was too big without the washers.
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