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Old 11-11-2012, 09:29 AM   #4621
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Originally Posted by Lessen View Post
What's the deal with the steering play I've been reading? Do the arms have vertical play between the lower and upper flanged pieces?

Also, what are you guys doing about slop in the wheel bearing areas? I was looking over a 411 a couple weeks ago and noticed there's a fair amount of play (wobble actually) here.
I have been using either saranwrap or plastic bag to take up any slop there might be, or just to tighten anything up that I think has excessive movement. I've done this on the steering rack bearings and it seems to have tightened it up nicely. I did this as I tried to glue the bearings in the rack before and ended up with a couple bushings, the saran wrap is much safer for me. I also use it to tighten the ball joints, and a plastic bag on one bearing hub, that for some reason, always seems to have a bit of movement to me no matter if I use new parts or not.
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:22 PM   #4622
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I tested a few things on some low-bite carpet yesterday. I took some Tamiya pistons (I'm using TRF shocks) and drilled them to 4 1.25mm holes, which yields a total area of 4.9mm. There's been some setups using 6 1.1mm holes (5.7mm total) with 2000cst in the shocks. Given that the smallest bit I had was 1.25, I did 4 holes and used 1500cst. I was pleasantly surprised by the results. I don't know that the car was necessarily faster or slower as compared to the typical 2-hole/45wt combination, but it was MUCH more consistent. The track is pretty smooth, aside from a couple of seams only noticeable with a 1/12. Given how the car felt I would guess that a 6x1.1/2000ish setup would work very well when bite comes up. Cristian from Reflex Racing mentioned that 6-hole pistons are in the works for Tamiya shocks, so I'll be able to get those once available.

I'm pretty aggressive and don't usually like thick shock oils. I noticed that the more open pistons prevented the "pack" that can occur under braking and slow turns, but the thicker oil smoothed the car out in faster turns, specifically the sweeper. In my situation it was the best of both worlds.

FRONT
Nylon spool, 0/0 toe blocks, no shim under blocks, medium wheelbase
Long camber link, 6mm under inner mount
14.5 Reflex spring, TRF shock, 4x1.25 1500cst, 1.4 swaybar
Shock mounted at 2hole on tower, outer on arm

REAR
Gear diff 1000cst, 3.5 toe, .5mm under blocks, long wheelbase
Long camber link, 2mm under each end
13.5 Reflex spring, TRF shock, 4x1.25 1500cst, 1.2 swaybar
Shock mounted at 3hole on tower, inner on arm

V2 motor mount, 2.0 upper deck, 2.25 chassis, 2mm ackerman, hard suspension parts, LTCR body, Sweep30 tires, DCJ shafts, center-mount servo piece, track width 187mm front and rear

The track was pretty tight but flowed well (70x40), so my aggressive driving style suited it well. I tried a front gear diff with 500k but I had more fun with the spool and was about a tenth faster. On a more flowing layout or somewhat larger track I might try out the front gear diff and go to Reflex 15.5 front/14.5 rear to carry more speed, or Serpent black/grey.
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:43 PM   #4623
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Originally Posted by 98tahoeboy View Post
I have been itching to get rid of the slop in my steering rack. Can you list what all was needed to do this. And are these the steering post from the 501x

Serpent S411-dscf3401.jpgthe washer

Serpent S411-dscf3408.jpgthe 411

Serpent S411-dscf3409.jpgthe ready to run
yep i did simular but used the old phenelic discs out the the old brushed motors
theses took the slop out but if the get a big hit(MUST IMPROVE MY DRIVING SOON) they will flex rather than braking a component
i found them on the dusty shelf at a shop and it was a quick fix
The third photo is the RTR answer to the same issue...they assembled with washers on top pretty much the same idea
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:46 AM   #4624
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Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone View Post
Man thats a nice looking track.

Setup wise, your look pretty solid, some of the things I would try are as follows;
-If it felt good with the 2.0/2.0 try running with some 1mm hex spacers in the front and .5mm spacers in the rear.
-If you can either try the super flexi 2.0mm top deck or mod your existing deck like Ed/Tryhard did, a couple pages back, I think this shows great promise on carpet as well.
-try the lighter springs, maybe run the same ones front and rear.
-up the front diff fluid to 500k.
-if you have the V1/V2 motor mounts I'd play with that combo, again Eds post from before.....the only thing I found was my car worked better with running the top 4 rear screws, no middle screw, and the lower screw in the rear instead of the front.
-I'd still try running with out the bars, they can really mess a good setup up.
-The rest is just chasing the setup with doping the tires, maybe the entire front at the start of the day and then reduce as the feel changes.
-Oh and definitely go to the anti-dive in the front, that's going to really, really help settle the back of the car.

Let us know what works for you. (nice track )
Whew long weekend of testing. Put down near to 700 laps on the car.

Anti-dive was a big no-bueno for me. It immediately starting pushing off power (as would be expected). I softed the front springs, dropped them in 2 holes, and got my front bite back, but it did not feel as consistent as before. It handled the chicanes better, but the 180's, the car wanted to over-rotate inconsistently. I put the front front spacer back in under the block, but left the shocks in, and am happy with that combo.

Tried to flexy top deck. Same type of thing. The car just felt less planted, like it was rolling too much. Tried it with the anti dive and without, as well as removing some top deck screws. Went back to the standard deck and all screws (including v1/v2 motor mount mish mash one) and car felt nice and settled again.

I did not have 500k (or anything over 100k) so could not try that.

I did not want to dremel out my friends hexes, so ran with .5mm spacers. Felt good, especially with the top shock mount change. Car is a little more reactive on turn in then before, but without unsettling the rear end.

Tried the no rear sway, and the back end was more planted both on and off power on the sweeper and 180's, but if I had to make a correction in the chicane, it would usually spin me out. My driving ability as it is means I have to make those corrections as I do not come into those sections consistently enough. If I stayed on the throttle (ala the Xray drivers here), it would pull through it, though this is where the spool would shine. Overall lowered my consistency though.

The last thing I changed was droop. I was running 2.5 ORH front and 2mm rear. It was suggested that I change to 1mm front, 1.5 rear. That was an incredible change. I did it Saturday evening when the traction was up, and it took the lean out of the car. Sometimes on the chicanes I was able to lift an inside front tire. This kept the whole car down and settled. I need more time with it, but it feels like the chicane speeds are the same, but the 180 corner speeds are higher. The car looks like it rolls through the corner more and scrubbing less.

I changed mid day to the Sweep QTS 32 control tire. I am on my last set of Jaco's, and while both are legal, the Sweeps are more economical. Our race a week ago, the difference when traction came up is that the Jaco's were more consistent the entire run. The Sweeps came in quick, but picked up more trash from the track and would begin to fade. By the end of Saturday night, the Sweeps were coming off a little dirty, but the car felt on point to about 5:30, and the last 30 seconds was more then fine unless I did something silly to unsettle the car.

We had one of the top drivers from the area tuning his TC while we were there. He was down to a 9.7 lap time. Our track manager did a 9.8 with similar droop adjustments. The rest of us were running 10.0 to 10.2. My best was a 10.002, with a 10.1 in the last run. The consistency also began to drop, as my body is cracked in the front fenders, causing some tire rub and nose drag under deceleration (could here a faint chatter from the front lip that was definitely affecting the car). The Sweeps also have almost 30 runs on them and are beginning to show the inner foam groove. Broke one right rear arm, but otherwise came through the day unscathed.

Next step is to play with the shocks more. Using 35wt AE oil, and considering upping that some. Couple others drove the car, and the common term everyone had for the car was "silky smooth". It really feels solid, and I think I am missing just a tiny bit of corner speed, and a whole lot of driver consistency. I have some gearing left to play with (running a straight 4.0 right now) and I think the car is capable of the 9.7/9.8's. I am losing those 10ths on the exits of the 3 tight corners, 1 sweeping 180, and 2 tight 180's. I lose a little midway on the big sweeper, but am a smidge faster at the beginning of it. I think that is the gearing difference there.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:33 PM   #4625
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Hey Steve,

Your PDF does not have your droop settings. Any idea what your running?

Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post
I'm using Tamiya #51000 plus the 3Racing 18mm horn. Seems to be the same length as the stock horn:
http://os.3racing.hk/products.php?products_key=4113

I also attended the same WCICS race as Gary a couple weeks back, so I should post my setup as well. I started with Martin's Canadian Nats setup and changed very little:
http://members.shaw.ca/spsoon/Steve_...onton_2012.pdf

(Gary, you'll have to tell me how to upload these to the usual websites )
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:32 PM   #4626
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I made note of it in the Remarks section, since I don't use the droop gauges.

Front: 2.5mm over ride height
Rear: 3mm over ride height

I run a little more in the rear at CARCAR due to the bumpy surface.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:44 PM   #4627
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how do you know when you need to replace the soft arms?
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:18 AM   #4628
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Hi guys,

I had a race last sunnday with my S411TE in Stock 10,5T Blinky ! First Race in this class and i wonn the race. my setup was very easy to drive ane very consitent . How many posts i must have to put a link in here ? to share my setup.

sorry for my bad english ^^
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:01 AM   #4629
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Originally Posted by Akhor View Post
how do you know when you need to replace the soft arms?
if you put a straight edge on the underneath of your arms, and along the C hub pin, you will notice a twist to the C hub section, and the arm isnt straight form the shock mounting position to the C hub. rear arms werent so bad, as there is a brace near the hub pin. but fronts will twist and bend.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:08 AM   #4630
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Originally Posted by Der_Mo View Post
Hi guys,

I had a race last sunnday with my S411TE in Stock 10,5T Blinky ! First Race in this class and i wonn the race. my setup was very easy to drive ane very consitent . How many posts i must have to put a link in here ? to share my setup.

sorry for my bad english ^^
Congrats

you should be able to post the link directly... but if it does not work you can pm me the link...
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:33 AM   #4631
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does any one know how much the s411 rtr be
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:19 PM   #4632
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Originally Posted by 5tylez View Post
I'm a new Serpent S411 owner. I was very impressed on my first outing with the S411 v2. However I did notice that the steering rack had a lot of slop. particularly where the flange bearing meets the steering posts. I would get inconsistent turning.

I've experimented a bit and put Tamiya 416 steering arms with 501x steering post. No slop. Ever since then, I've been getting very consistent turning. Very happy with the outcome. I'll be easy-offing the blue now that I will be keeping this Mod.

Cheers,
Chris.




I had a chance to try this mod last week. I didn't believe Chris when he mentioned that it changed the steering characteristics of the car - however, I am a believer now. I found that it made the steering more linear which is what I found the car was missing with my driving style. With the set-up I have on my car now - which is quite a bit different then what I have seen most running (and different then the one that Martin Crisp and I were running at the Canadian Nationals last year) - the car has become even more predictable and easier to drive for me. I can make adjustments mid-corner now and not have the car do weird things. For those that are interested in doing the mod, you'll need the following:

- Tamiya Steering Post - 417 x 2 TAM3454760
- Tamiya Steering Arm 416/417 TAM9804375*

*If you can't find these, the plastic ones from the 501X or DB01 will work, you will need to buy to plastic trees and the bearings for them. TAM49401 RC A parts - you will need two trees to get the plastic pieces you need.

You can get away with making this mod with the existing steering parts by flipping the steering posts - which I have done on my second car - however, I had these parts with me so I thought I would give them a shot.

I am confident that it is the position of the steering posts - being lower and the effect on bump steering that has made this improvement - however, I did notice that the bearings that Tamiya uses in the steering arms have less play in them (between the bearing and the aluminum arm) leading to a more slop-free steering rack.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:49 PM   #4633
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This Saturday I will test the T-SHOX on my S411te. It's very easy to put them together and they feel very smooth.
Attached Thumbnails
Serpent S411-t-shox-1.jpg   Serpent S411-t-shox-2.jpg   Serpent S411-t-shox-3.jpg   Serpent S411-t-shox-4.jpg  
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:07 PM   #4634
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Originally Posted by duckman996 View Post
I had a chance to try this mod last week. I didn't believe Chris when he mentioned that it changed the steering characteristics of the car - however, I am a believer now. I found that it made the steering more linear which is what I found the car was missing with my driving style. With the set-up I have on my car now - which is quite a bit different then what I have seen most running (and different then the one that Martin Crisp and I were running at the Canadian Nationals last year) - the car has become even more predictable and easier to drive for me. I can make adjustments mid-corner now and not have the car do weird things. For those that are interested in doing the mod, you'll need the following:

- Tamiya Steering Post - 417 x 2 TAM3454760
- Tamiya Steering Arm 416/417 TAM9804375*

*If you can't find these, the plastic ones from the 501X or DB01 will work, you will need to buy to plastic trees and the bearings for them. TAM49401 RC A parts - you will need two trees to get the plastic pieces you need.

You can get away with making this mod with the existing steering parts by flipping the steering posts - which I have done on my second car - however, I had these parts with me so I thought I would give them a shot.

I am confident that it is the position of the steering posts - being lower and the effect on bump steering that has made this improvement - however, I did notice that the bearings that Tamiya uses in the steering arms have less play in them (between the bearing and the aluminum arm) leading to a more slop-free steering rack.
I have a couple questions about this mod.

What is the arm length of the Tamiya arm in comparison to the Serpent arm, are they the same, shorter, longer?

What is the height of the steering rack top to the deck of the chassis when you run the Tamiya posts?

Do you get the same height of the rack when you flip the stock posts? Did you use the 4.5mm spacing?

It looks like the ackerman spacers are about 4mm, did you try this before the post mod, or do you have to do this to get the same steering rod angle as before?

Thanks
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:58 PM   #4635
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Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone View Post
I have a couple questions about this mod.

What is the arm length of the Tamiya arm in comparison to the Serpent arm, are they the same, shorter, longer?

What is the height of the steering rack top to the deck of the chassis when you run the Tamiya posts?

Do you get the same height of the rack when you flip the stock posts? Did you use the 4.5mm spacing?

It looks like the ackerman spacers are about 4mm, did you try this before the post mod, or do you have to do this to get the same steering rod angle as before?

Thanks
The pics are from the original post by Chris... I'll have to take the measurements when I get home. Personally I run less spacers for ackerman adjustment - it looks like Chris has 3mm on his car and I run only 1mm for carpet. Chris likes his car to push a little initially - more mid-turn steering whereas I like more direct steering initially as well as throughout the turn. Two different driving styles and we both had the same comments about the modification.
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