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Old 11-01-2012, 08:08 AM   #4516
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Originally Posted by Holmenkollen View Post
If you add shims under the steering block you get more steering in the middle of the turn and out but less in.

@TryHard. Benefits of using the VBC diff?
Thanks Holmenkollen,
can you also make some comments about the shimms on the steering hack ?

Where can we find more info about VBC Diffs ? There is any link where I can buy it ?

tks
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:28 AM   #4517
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Originally Posted by Holmenkollen View Post
If you add shims under the steering block you get more steering in the middle of the turn and out but less in.

@TryHard. Benefits of using the VBC diff?
Much lighter than serpent one (in the region of 10g less than a 2gear), which is not just mass, but rotating mass too. Also, feels smoother, none of the notchy ness. By all accounts, should gain rear traction.
I know you can use the Xceed 733lightweight gear diff parts to achieve a similar thing, but they are impossible to get hold of anymore, so this is a good option, IMO.

Recap- VBC Diff, Dogbones and blades, Xray cross joint, Serpent Axles.

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Old 11-01-2012, 08:57 AM   #4518
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Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
they are impossible to get hold

HiH
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Old 11-01-2012, 01:10 PM   #4519
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Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
Some pics of parts to test this weekend....

Another new top deck (still with the front brace mind), with a split rear brace, but keeping the ability (via screw and nut) to keep it as original.

VBC diff in the rear, nice, smooth and light...

Ed

The split deck at the back works very well. If you run it that way, will you mill the center motor mount down (V2/V1 combo) or run the V2/V2? I ran the V1/V1 and used no nut, just the screw and washer.

All the time I ran at the WCIC on the weekend I really wished I had done the previous deck you modded Ed.....I think it would have been very close to what I was looking for on the car.
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Old 11-01-2012, 06:31 PM   #4520
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Questions?? Questions

Hello fellow 411 racers. I've been running the 811 cars for Serpent since early this year and after being out of onroad for about 3-4 years, I've decided to jump back in. I have a few questions regarding this car and how some of you have it set up.

* what is the advantages of the floating servo?
* On Gary Lanzer's WCIC setup sheet under remarks, what does "rh/droop set-car "squared" mean? Also 2k shock oil seems kinda odd
* Is there a Serpent "hard" bumper, or is everyone using the xray bumper?

Thanks

I'm sure I'll have more questions as soon as I get through the 300+ pages in this thread.
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:49 PM   #4521
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Originally Posted by BigRon View Post
Hello fellow 411 racers. I've been running the 811 cars for Serpent since early this year and after being out of onroad for about 3-4 years, I've decided to jump back in. I have a few questions regarding this car and how some of you have it set up.

* what is the advantages of the floating servo?
* On Gary Lanzer's WCIC setup sheet under remarks, what does "rh/droop set-car "squared" mean? Also 2k shock oil seems kinda odd
* Is there a Serpent "hard" bumper, or is everyone using the xray bumper?

Thanks

I'm sure I'll have more questions as soon as I get through the 300+ pages in this thread.
You'll also notice the 6 hole pistons in the setup there too. The 2k shock oil with the piston mod is something that was done to decrease piston pack by adding more holes to the piston and increasing the shock oil weight.
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Old 11-01-2012, 09:37 PM   #4522
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Originally Posted by BigRon View Post
Hello fellow 411 racers. I've been running the 811 cars for Serpent since early this year and after being out of onroad for about 3-4 years, I've decided to jump back in. I have a few questions regarding this car and how some of you have it set up.

* what is the advantages of the floating servo?
* On Gary Lanzer's WCIC setup sheet under remarks, what does "rh/droop set-car "squared" mean? Also 2k shock oil seems kinda odd
* Is there a Serpent "hard" bumper, or is everyone using the xray bumper?

Thanks

I'm sure I'll have more questions as soon as I get through the 300+ pages in this thread.
Hi Ron,
I'll try to answer the questions as best I can, but in no specific order.

I use the Xray hard bumper, I think some use the Parma hard blank, use the hards and softs as a tuning tool, although I seem to run better with the hard bumper up front, probably a weight distribution thing, but guys are playing around with it. As far as coverage, I believe the new TE bumper gives as good a coverage as the hard bumper so one may get away with running it over the hard and save some weight there. Again, I've switched back and forth and the hard just works better for me.

The floating servo just eliminates the tie in to the chassis in the middle of the left hand side of the chassis, it also brings up the mount point of the outside of the servo up so you can roll the car slightly harder without touching the low mount. It brings all the "solid" mount screws to the center line of the chassis, so it gives a much closer to equal flex from left to right. Mine is so darn simple using the stock parts and a couple 1mm spacers, but it sure feels nice on the track.

As DannyB23 said, the shocks are running stock 4 hole pistons and I added 2 holes for a total of 6 all 1.1mm and then the 2k oil. I have now done this with the RCXX and the RCM shocks and for about 98% of the tracks I run on they just seem to work, and work very well. I wish I could say this was my idea, but I borrowed it from Hiro and even asked him a few more questions about this at IIC and he also confirmed that they all use it most of the time on all surfaces......it sounds weird and I wouldn't have believed it myself till I tried it.

Ah the "squared" method........once you learn this you can pretty much throw your tweak bar away. I'll try to explain this but its more of a visual thing.
You should still set your ride height as per normal, after thats set, set your droop as per whatever method you use, whether its using droop gauges, over ride height or using a micrometer for stub axle to setup board. I prefer over ride height myself, and was shown a real neat way of doing that too. In any matter once those adjustments are done, we used to throw the car on the tweak board and fine tune from there, problem being, it never really was a good indicator of how the car was reacting on the track. NOW, once the ride height and droop is set, you move your car off the board so its about halfway of the board but close to 90* to the board, like you would be trying to balance your car on the edge of the board. Take one of you wrenches and find the drilled balance hole and put the tip into it, this is so you are centered on the chassis. Keeping one finger on the top of the chassis above where you have your wrench in the balance hole, slowly lift the car up and watch the front shocks, if the car is "squared" both sides of the cars shocks should react the same. If all adjustments are equal on the car, this is the final way to ensure that both sides of the car are reacting to suspension movement the same. Doing it this way will pick up on a weaker spring on one side, or a shock that is weaker on one side.....it pretty much will make it so you can compensate for those weak parts and balance out the car so you get equal down pressure on both sides. I always start buy adjusting the front shocks and then do the rears. I have had cars that look pretty good on the tweak bar, but look bad when doing the "squared" method. This method really seems to make the car feel far more consistent on the track.

I picked this up watching some of the top guys, they all seem to have their own way of doing it, but they all are getting the same final results. What I described is pretty close to the way Kevin H and Peter from Associated and just slightly varies from what Paul L/Xray does. It took me about a year to figure it all out.

All I can say is give it a try, the closer you get those front shocks reacting the same the more amazing the car handles.

Welcome to S411 family, hope that answers your questions, please feel free to ask anything that comes to mind, there are some really great guys on here that are more than willing to help you out.
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Old 11-02-2012, 07:25 AM   #4523
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Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
Some pics of parts to test this weekend....

Another new top deck (still with the front brace mind), with a split rear brace, but keeping the ability (via screw and nut) to keep it as original.

VBC diff in the rear, nice, smooth and light...

Ed

Whos rear shock tower is that?

And did you shim your upper deck up to clear your lipo or for handling?

Thanks.
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Old 11-02-2012, 07:37 AM   #4524
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Originally Posted by Robbob View Post
Whos rear shock tower is that?

And did you shim your upper deck up to clear your lipo or for handling?

Thanks.
Rear shock tower is the one that came with my TE kit... compared to my other car, it has the mounts for the body supports in it (took me ages to figure out what the other holes are for!)

As for the upper deck, it's shimmed so the deck doesn't touch the rear of the layshaft mounts, as I'm not running the screws in there. 0.5mm is enough to raise the deck, and make sure there are no funny things going on with the flex.

HiH
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Old 11-02-2012, 07:39 AM   #4525
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Originally Posted by Cestaric View Post
Thanks Holmenkollen,
can you also make some comments about the shimms on the steering hack ?

Where can we find more info about VBC Diffs ? There is any link where I can buy it ?

tks
For VBC, can go direct - http://www.vbcracing.com/ or to CRC in the US http://www.teamcrc.com/

HiH
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Old 11-02-2012, 07:43 AM   #4526
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Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone View Post
The split deck at the back works very well. If you run it that way, will you mill the center motor mount down (V2/V1 combo) or run the V2/V2? I ran the V1/V1 and used no nut, just the screw and washer.

All the time I ran at the WCIC on the weekend I really wished I had done the previous deck you modded Ed.....I think it would have been very close to what I was looking for on the car.
For the split rear deck, I'd just change out to the V2/V2, as I can switch over to that pretty quick (no need to drop the motor out in mod ). I'll be testing just the top decks tomorrow.. Sunday is the long list for everything else, including diff, nylon spool, chassis', 6hole pistions, RCM vs RCXX's, or in other words, everything bar the geometry! Only two weeks left before the nats, and only one more full open practise day... thankfully the F1 is pretty good to go, so can concentrate on the TC

Ed
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:39 AM   #4527
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Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
Rear shock tower is the one that came with my TE kit... compared to my other car, it has the mounts for the body supports in it (took me ages to figure out what the other holes are for!)

As for the upper deck, it's shimmed so the deck doesn't touch the rear of the layshaft mounts, as I'm not running the screws in there. 0.5mm is enough to raise the deck, and make sure there are no funny things going on with the flex.

HiH
Ed

Thanks.
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:47 AM   #4528
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I believe I understand what you are doing here, however if you could make a quick youtube video showing this method it would be helpful.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone View Post

Ah the "squared" method........once you learn this you can pretty much throw your tweak bar away. I'll try to explain this but its more of a visual thing.
You should still set your ride height as per normal, after thats set, set your droop as per whatever method you use, whether its using droop gauges, over ride height or using a micrometer for stub axle to setup board. I prefer over ride height myself, and was shown a real neat way of doing that too. In any matter once those adjustments are done, we used to throw the car on the tweak board and fine tune from there, problem being, it never really was a good indicator of how the car was reacting on the track. NOW, once the ride height and droop is set, you move your car off the board so its about halfway of the board but close to 90* to the board, like you would be trying to balance your car on the edge of the board. Take one of you wrenches and find the drilled balance hole and put the tip into it, this is so you are centered on the chassis. Keeping one finger on the top of the chassis above where you have your wrench in the balance hole, slowly lift the car up and watch the front shocks, if the car is "squared" both sides of the cars shocks should react the same. If all adjustments are equal on the car, this is the final way to ensure that both sides of the car are reacting to suspension movement the same. Doing it this way will pick up on a weaker spring on one side, or a shock that is weaker on one side.....it pretty much will make it so you can compensate for those weak parts and balance out the car so you get equal down pressure on both sides. I always start buy adjusting the front shocks and then do the rears. I have had cars that look pretty good on the tweak bar, but look bad when doing the "squared" method. This method really seems to make the car feel far more consistent on the track.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:08 AM   #4529
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Cestaric, since the CRC site is not the easiest to navigate, here's a direct link to the Wildfire gear diff
http://www.teamcrc.com/crc/modules.p...prodID=7719299

I know a few guys that drive an S411. My friend uses an XRAY gear diff in his(I sold him an extra one that I had). They just need to be shimmed a little.
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:40 AM   #4530
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So, tonight, a bit of relaxed club racing, and had the opportunity to run through a number of top-deck/motor mount combinations to clear up some thoughts in my head, and find out what was faster.... Now disclaimer before I start in that I was using my Stock car (17.5 Blinky), not my mod car, and they have different setups on at the mo. Also, the trac was a blown off tennis court (although is very new, and gives good consistent grip, and very smooth). However, I was able to treat it as a good comparison between the different options.

First run of the night, I treated as a setup run, as took a punt with the settings, and hadn't run the car before. Second run, made some changes to spring and shocks (down to HPI Blues, and up one hole on the tower) and car felt ok, although in hindsight, was washing in the middle, but also being a bit snappy on the rear if the car got loaded up too much. Anyway, treated that as the base run. Top deck wise, running the 2mm Flexie, with the standard V2 motor mount. Result was a 32lap run in 6mins, with a fastest of 10.1.

Third run, changed to the top deck with the front brace, keeping the standard V2 mount. Noticeable that the car picked up mid corner steering, and more reactive into the corner, and was just more consistent through the turn. Result was a 33lap run, 9.9s fastest

Fourth run, kept the front brace, and ran the split in the rear brace, and kept the V2 mount. The snappy-ness was almost gone, and the car was much more locked down in the rear, to the point of the car not wanting to rotate quickly in the slower stuff. However, in the higher speed loaded section, could be much more aggresive, and maintain the consistency. Result, 34laps, 9.6 fastest.

And for the last timed run, went to the BD7 style motor mount (V2 side mount, V1 centre, front screw only in bottom, and only front centre into top deck), with the front braced deck. Felt very similar to the above combo, but gained mid rotation in the slower corners, and interestingly didn't seem to suffer in the high speed... best run of the night at 35laps, with a 9.5 fastest lap.

In summary;
1) Standard TE flexie top deck + V2 Mount = 32laps, 10.1s
2) Front braced Flexie + V2 Mount = 33laps, 9.9s (0.3s gain)
3) Front braced and rear cut flexie + V2 Mount = 34laps, 9.6s (0.5s gain over 1)
4) Front braced flexie + V1/V2 Mount = 35laps, 9.5s (0.6 gain over 1)

Now, obviously, take those numbers with a pinch of salt, as there was some track evolution during the night, but I didn't have time to figure it out. Also, I couldn't really use consistency as a gauge, as there was a lot of lapping of other cars going on, and never really got more than 2 or 3laps in clear traffic, hence using the laps and fastest to gauge difference.

Anyway, off to test the mod car tomorrow, and given it already has the last combo on, I'll give the cut rear deck/V2 mount as try as well to compare, as they felt similar on track, and it was a subtle change.

Fun night though, nice to just go club racing and not worry too much...

Ed
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