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Old 09-25-2012, 10:03 AM   #4276
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Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
Our track is medium/high bite carpet, and the track we were going to was going to be a brand new layout, but would pick up traction quickly. Went without any setup changes to start, and the car pushed a little. Stiffened the rear springs 2 sets, laid down the front shocks 1 hole, car felt good. Saturday rolled around, the car started rotating better, and went into the first qualifier seeded 14th (out of 58). Moved up to 12th in the first qualifier and then changed rear tires going into the second qualifier. Turned out to be a nightmare, no rear traction and hooked violently. Reglued the tire I had an issue with and went out in the third qualifier, just as bad. Because it was so bad and abrubt, I was assuming something had broken. Replaced all the plastics, problem still there. Raised all my roll centers and it got slightly better. Dropped down to 22nd by the end of Saturday. Sunday morning, decided to lay down my rear shocks all the way, just to see. Car was much better if I was in the grove, and completely awful outside of it. Last chance qualifier it was better, but did not improve my time. Went into the C-Main in 2nd place. Softed the rear sway bar, softened the rear springs, tweaked the droop a little and hoped for the best. Went out in the main, and car hooked up excellent. Raced 1st/2nd for the first few minutes till the then 1st place car hit the wall and broke. Maintained the lead for the rest, 2nd place about 5 seconds back and third place a lap down. Top half finish which was my goal, though I feel after running that I had a B-Main car, just could not put together the qualifiers to show it.

Excited to get back to the track and work on some of the new things everyone here is doing and try and get a little more corner speed out of the car.
Mind my asking why you changed rear tires? And are these VTA tires?
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:05 AM   #4277
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Mind my asking why you changed rear tires? And are these VTA tires?
Yes VTA tires. I had brought several sets, new, broken in, and used. The set I had on was fairly new, but after a wall collision and in combination with the traction coming up, part of my glue job was failing, and the tire had pulled away from the rim over about an inch. Replaced the rears with a set that was almost the same, broken in, but with 2 less runs on them. I assumed that the issue was somehow with the tires. Reglued up the first one, ran those in the next heat (the ones that worked all Friday and the first part of Saturday) and same issue, violent stepping out of the back end. Had it in particular in the sweeper, the corner coming onto the straight, and the pair of corners that made of the tail or the sweeper. The slower speed corners were not an issue unless I took a bad line in and got hard on the throttle. Otherwise, would maintain speed, roll the corner and ease back into the throttle and was fine.

I had been running 2.5 blocks for both on the front end with a 0.5mm spacer on each wheel (for clearance around the spindles). This gave me a wider front stance which had worked well with lower traction, but had a lot more bite as traction came up. I changed to a pair of 1.0 blocks, along with adding 1mm of shims to both rear blocks, and the rear front block. The front front block I added 0.5mm to. I also removed .5mm of spacers from the inner and outer rod ends on the rear. I was told this would help settle the car into the corner less abrubtly and make it a bit lazier. The idea being that the weight transfer would be less and if the back end lost traction, it would be slower to come around. Raising the front shocks, laying down the rear did more of the same, less front bite, lazier rear end. Changed the rear bar from 1.4 to 1.2, and everything magically started working. Rear end rotated nicely, but stayed glued when I needed it to. I think I could probably get it handling a little more accurate so that it would cut the corners more then it does now, but I was out of time. The car hooked up in the main, and going back to the home track and everything will be changing again.

Ended up running the main on the rear tire set that I started the weekend on as well.
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:16 AM   #4278
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Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
Yes VTA tires. I had brought several sets, new, broken in, and used. The set I had on was fairly new, but after a wall collision and in combination with the traction coming up, part of my glue job was failing, and the tire had pulled away from the rim over about an inch. Replaced the rears with a set that was almost the same, broken in, but with 2 less runs on them. I assumed that the issue was somehow with the tires. Reglued up the first one, ran those in the next heat (the ones that worked all Friday and the first part of Saturday) and same issue, violent stepping out of the back end. Had it in particular in the sweeper, the corner coming onto the straight, and the pair of corners that made of the tail or the sweeper. The slower speed corners were not an issue unless I took a bad line in and got hard on the throttle. Otherwise, would maintain speed, roll the corner and ease back into the throttle and was fine.

I had been running 2.5 blocks for both on the front end with a 0.5mm spacer on each wheel (for clearance around the spindles). This gave me a wider front stance which had worked well with lower traction, but had a lot more bite as traction came up. I changed to a pair of 1.0 blocks, along with adding 1mm of shims to both rear blocks, and the rear front block. The front front block I added 0.5mm to. I also removed .5mm of spacers from the inner and outer rod ends on the rear. I was told this would help settle the car into the corner less abrubtly and make it a bit lazier. The idea being that the weight transfer would be less and if the back end lost traction, it would be slower to come around. Raising the front shocks, laying down the rear did more of the same, less front bite, lazier rear end. Changed the rear bar from 1.4 to 1.2, and everything magically started working. Rear end rotated nicely, but stayed glued when I needed it to. I think I could probably get it handling a little more accurate so that it would cut the corners more then it does now, but I was out of time. The car hooked up in the main, and going back to the home track and everything will be changing again.

Ended up running the main on the rear tire set that I started the weekend on as well.
VTA tires...... You can have 2 sets with the same runs and they will handle differently. I've found that going thinner in the rear diff and narrowing the rear width will help the back stay stuck in high-speed turns. I also run the front with 0 and 1 blocks with narrow hubs. This smooths the entire car out. In my opinion the stock 2.0/2.5 blocks and hubs make the front of the car too wide, which can cause the "violent" stepping out. Another trick is using the inner holes on the rear arms (for the shocks). You can use a slightly softer spring this way which can help with on-throttle rear grip. I virtually always use the 4th hole on the rear tower despite what spring or lower mount I use.
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:46 PM   #4279
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Default 2mm or 2.25 chassis for carpet?

thanks for the help, i just ordered the front DJC driveshafts from serpent america tonight. Thank god because the stock cvd's were an absolute nightmare with pins coming out, i can finally have a consistent car now.

for rubber tire on carpet I am running the 2mm chassis; is the 2.25mm chassis better for high grip carpet?

Thanks y'all.
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:37 PM   #4280
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thanks for the help, i just ordered the front DJC driveshafts from serpent america tonight. Thank god because the stock cvd's were an absolute nightmare with pins coming out, i can finally have a consistent car now.

for rubber tire on carpet I am running the 2mm chassis; is the 2.25mm chassis better for high grip carpet?

Thanks y'all.
I prefer the 2.5 chassis on high grip carpet, but the 2.25 works well too. You should look at the different top deck too, again the 2.5 is very good on high grip carpet.
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:04 AM   #4281
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Whatabout this mount? uses 2 inboard mounting screws, color suks

http://www.rc-mushroom.com/product_i...r-2012-p-24648
I read that some of you don't like this servo mount - why not?
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:09 AM   #4282
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Hi Ed,

Can I ask what you servo mount start life as or have you made it from scratch?

Cheers

in case you plan on doing this mod.. this steering servo holder from an xray nt1 seem feasible..
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Old 09-26-2012, 02:12 AM   #4283
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Hi Ed,

Can I ask what you servo mount start life as or have you made it from scratch?

Cheers
Made from scratch... I have access to a lot of carbon materials and so on, so making my own

That's v1, and after the test fit last night, it's going in the bin and I'm making up a proper mould, rather than the rushed one I did there (sizes are a little out, as is one angle).

Ed
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:17 AM   #4284
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Originally Posted by cwoods34 View Post
VTA tires...... You can have 2 sets with the same runs and they will handle differently. I've found that going thinner in the rear diff and narrowing the rear width will help the back stay stuck in high-speed turns. I also run the front with 0 and 1 blocks with narrow hubs. This smooths the entire car out. In my opinion the stock 2.0/2.5 blocks and hubs make the front of the car too wide, which can cause the "violent" stepping out. Another trick is using the inner holes on the rear arms (for the shocks). You can use a slightly softer spring this way which can help with on-throttle rear grip. I virtually always use the 4th hole on the rear tower despite what spring or lower mount I use.
Yes, there is definitely some inconsistency there.

I am running 1000wt in the rear diff. I have not tried to narrow the rear with running the 3* blocks. I am not sure how I can and still maintain the 3* toe in?

Front is 1/1 right now, as I did not see a reason to build the toe into the suspension instead of at the wheel. Not that it is bad, it is just that I do not understand it. I was running 2.5/2.5 which really helped the car stick on our lower traction track. I will be interested to see how the current setup fairs.

I am on the second to inner most hole on the rear towers right now, 3rd from outer on the front. Using RSD springs, approximately 15.5lb front and 13.5lb rear.
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:46 AM   #4285
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Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
Yes, there is definitely some inconsistency there.

I am running 1000wt in the rear diff. I have not tried to narrow the rear with running the 3* blocks. I am not sure how I can and still maintain the 3* toe in?

Front is 1/1 right now, as I did not see a reason to build the toe into the suspension instead of at the wheel. Not that it is bad, it is just that I do not understand it. I was running 2.5/2.5 which really helped the car stick on our lower traction track. I will be interested to see how the current setup fairs.

I am on the second to inner most hole on the rear towers right now, 3rd from outer on the front. Using RSD springs, approximately 15.5lb front and 13.5lb rear.
I bought some of the super-slim XRAY hubs and drilled them out to fit the Serpent axles..... I would assume running XRAY rear axles would alleviate drilling. These hubs narrowed the rear by 4mm or so..... which helped with rear grip.

Also, I honestly would never run the rear shocks laid lower than the #4 hole.... MAYBE 3 with a harder spring. I have tested it laid down from 1-3 and it never made grip. You can lay a shock down so much that it never utilizes enough suspension movement.... The arms will "absorb" most of it, and the arms don't provide any weight transfer/dampening of sorts which mitigates grip.
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Old 09-26-2012, 02:49 PM   #4286
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I bought some of the super-slim XRAY hubs and drilled them out to fit the Serpent axles..... I would assume running XRAY rear axles would alleviate drilling. These hubs narrowed the rear by 4mm or so..... which helped with rear grip.

Also, I honestly would never run the rear shocks laid lower than the #4 hole.... MAYBE 3 with a harder spring. I have tested it laid down from 1-3 and it never made grip. You can lay a shock down so much that it never utilizes enough suspension movement.... The arms will "absorb" most of it, and the arms don't provide any weight transfer/dampening of sorts which mitigates grip.
I have heard the same with the shock mounting, but it worked for me, so not sure. I did a 4 hole jump to get there though, as I was looking at 1 short open practice (couple min) between qualifiers and mains, and the main itself, so my tuning time was limited, and figured it was go too far, then back it off if the car pushed.
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Old 09-26-2012, 03:55 PM   #4287
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orcadigital, did you ever get your motor issues worked out?

I also am not a big fan of going lower than 3 hole on the shock tower.
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Old 09-26-2012, 04:00 PM   #4288
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Default Serpent parts

Just a FYI, Serpent America has received a parts order yesterday.
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:34 AM   #4289
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I'm still awaiting delivery of my S411 TE. I would like to order the DJC set in the mean time. The question is though:

Do I order for front and rear? Are they the same front and rear?

Thanks
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:42 AM   #4290
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No need for DJC in the rear. The purpose of them is to cope with the steering angle at the front. The rear is mostly straight all the time.

-Mike
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