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Old 09-19-2012, 01:43 PM   #4246
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Originally Posted by Toughbeard View Post
I am not sure why people are looking for a different shock. Serpent ones works perfectly fine once they are built correctly
I disagree with the performance of the serpent shocks. when the original shocks came out, it was hit or miss with the shaft rubbin' against the snap ring no matter how well the their built, additionally trying to build the shocks with even rebound was a plain in the butt. there was was nothing smooth about them.


BTW I built them correctly so no need to imply that I didn't.

Last edited by dawgmeat; 09-19-2012 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:57 PM   #4247
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Originally Posted by Kensei View Post
Thank you. Please do.
I would really like to know which partnumber or partnumbers I should order.
Hope to hear from ya soon...... ;-)

Tip from Chris Kerswell:
The anti-roll bar inserts are a little tight on the bar. It is advisable to use the 1.6mm inserts for the 1.4mm bar and tighten the grubscrew down to remove the play but still keep it free.
I've been searching for a partnumber for the 1.6mm insert. Can't find it anywhere. Suggestions?
you need to buy the whole tree of inserts......... 401411.
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:47 PM   #4248
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Originally Posted by damage View Post
Gary,

Can you share your current carpet setup for your S411? Are you running the v2 motor mount and 2.5mm chassis, as well have you upgraded the diffs and shocks too?

Have you got the car where you want it and consistent? I remember some of the struggles we where having at the Regina leg of WCICS last year.

Warren
Hi Warren, Its not quite there yet, although I believe that I have the WCIC issues for Regina sorted out, I'll know for sure at IIC as its about the only place that runs that big a track with that much traction. If you come to IIC I will gladly share my setup with you (or anyone else), but I feel it needs just that one missing piece to be very good.

Yes I've been running the V2 motor mount with the 2.5 chassis and the 2.5 top deck. I have been using old a new shocks and V1 and V2 diffs (even the Exceede diff) and feel that out of the box the V2 parts are better. Not saying that well massaged V1 parts are bad, but if you don't want the extra work V2 is the way to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaVeloce View Post
You seem to miss the whole point of the design. The biggest advantage with the design is that you have no preassure build up by the shaft. The shafts displacment is constant and you do not need a bladder or anything else to compensate for displacment build up. Just so you know.. ! ;o)
Don't think I missed that just assumed the above was a given, but thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM Racing View Post
Serpent early shocks with their foam collar work fine but i wouldn't call them an emulsion shock but the tricks you can play with them are more than standard shock

if you build them closed you can preload the shock itself..in the compressed position ..when it extends it opens the foam opens up on the collar closed cell rubber

this leads to it carrying a rising rate on the spring which you are running
This is the best forum by the way and is possibly why we changed to serpents
regards Andrew
Thanks for the trick tips, I think I'm going to try to build a set like that and split them with the RCM up front and the RCXX (built as above) to see if it gets the result I'm looking for.

By the way welcome to Serpent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
Gary, in terms of damping, what feeling are you trying to achieve? Admittedly I haven't run the original serpent RCXX shocks, but there are quite a few tweaks that you can do to the RCM's to get them working much better. Just as a list, I've done the following;
Tamiya Bladders - Standard Serpent ones were, IMO, to inconsistent part to part)
Tamiya blue o-rings in the bottom - white supplied o-ring had too much shaft stiction.. however, these o-rings do need a bit of spacing as they are thinner. Currently have 0.6mm inside the bottom of each shock, no leaks.
Drilled top - This is a usual feel thing, run mine this way regardless now.

Also this past weekend, I experimented with using more holes/harder oil, and very much liked the feel of the shocks this way. Took away some of the initial pack in the shock, and better over the ripples we have out here.

I've got a load more thoughts from this past weekend, but I need a bit of time to process and write them down, so will post again later.

Ed
I can't quite describe what I'm looking for, I actually believe I have it narrowed it down to the back of the car, but not entirely sure if its in the shocks, but it could be upper rc or rear bar.........I can tell you Ed, if you where to put carpet under your race report further down, I'm experiencing just about the same feel, the rotation doesn't feel right and the mid to exit understeer is just a little too much and when I dial in just a touch more overall steering the back gets into oversteer, yet the car feels not bad. If I could over exagerate for the sake of accuracy, sometimes the car just feels like it has bagged out shocks, like in a real car, that bounces that couple extra times, or rocks once or twice going over the railroad tracks.

I have noted your recommended shock build, just have to source the parts.....I'd like to try the RSD bladders too, to see what they are like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gearhead_22 View Post
my buddy Irvin cole wins the tc mod race at the sweeps challange at bluediamond rc in new castle delware.
Congrats on the win, get him to post his setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kensei View Post
Can I get this car down to 1,350gr?
Without all kinds of expensive solutions....?

SP13.5MMM
SP Cirtix
Orion Carbon Pro 6500mAh weight 290gr
Lightweight body LTC-R

If not, HMX M1 it's gonna be.......
With those components I think you'll be very close. I run Ti screws all around except for the suspension mounts. I think you'll like the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwoods34 View Post
Are aluminum shafts available from Serpent?..... Or you guys using a different brand? I'll be switching to the nylon spool this week, and new shafts would be great. I think I have as much fun shaving weight as I do racing! One thing I like about mod is you can ditch the fan and run a smaller battery.... which can save up to 30g also!
I have run the Xray shafts, 52mm are the same as the Serpent 46mm shafts but the ball end with the pin cushion is larger, I have to do this when I run the Exceede diff, but otherwise the Serpent Aluminum shafts work very well and seem pretty strong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toughbeard View Post
I am not sure why people are looking for a different shock. Serpent ones works perfectly fine once they are built correctly
I'd probably do some changes on them as well, lol. Even the TRF guys change the shocks around to all sorts of settings, so I think its not so easy as just slapping on a set and going fast.....the TRF are very nice though and seem to be the set standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kensei View Post
Thank you. Please do.
I would really like to know which partnumber or partnumbers I should order.
Hope to hear from ya soon...... ;-)

Tip from Chris Kerswell:
The anti-roll bar inserts are a little tight on the bar. It is advisable to use the 1.6mm inserts for the 1.4mm bar and tighten the grubscrew down to remove the play but still keep it free.
I've been searching for a partnumber for the 1.6mm insert. Can't find it anywhere. Suggestions?
The inserts are on a tree that has all the inserts from 1.2 to 1.8, part number is #401411. BUT you get the entire set with the car kit, not all the bars, but the inserts.
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:49 PM   #4249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgmeat View Post
I disagree with the performance of the serpent shocks. when the original shocks came out, it was hit or miss with the shaft rubbin' against the snap ring no matter how well the their built, additionally trying to build the shocks with even rebound was a plain in the butt. there was was nothing smooth about them.


BTW I built them correctly so need to imply the I didn't.
No doubt, the snap ring did cause some problems.
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:40 PM   #4250
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Here are some button-head screws in different lengths....

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXZLJ7&P=7
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXZLJ9&P=7
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXZLK1&P=7

Here are countersunk screws for the bottom of the chassis (if needed)....

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXZLJ8&P=7
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXZLK0&P=7
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXZLK2&P=7

Here are some cap-head or "socket" screws. These work great for the bulkheads and upper deck, because the head is beefy enough that they don't strip. You could also mount the shocks with them.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXBLPH&P=7
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXBLPJ&P=7

I changed all of my bottom chassis screws from aluminum to what I thought were stainless steel, but it seems they are titanium.... because it barely added 5g of weight to the car! Changing the bottom screws from carbon steel to aluminum shaved more than that...... I got the screws loose from a friend, so I didn't know until I weighed them.

Mr. Wishbone --- can you post a link to your carpet setup? Or at least what you typically start with? I found one I liked for our low/med bite carpet track while it was open, and I'd like to compare them! OR if you've found a good starting point for high bite carpet..... I don't get many chances to test on it
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Old 09-20-2012, 02:15 AM   #4251
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Originally Posted by cwoods34 View Post
Here are some button-head screws in different lengths....

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXZLJ7&P=7
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXZLJ9&P=7
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXZLK1&P=7

Here are countersunk screws for the bottom of the chassis (if needed)....

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXZLJ8&P=7
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXZLK0&P=7
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXZLK2&P=7

Here are some cap-head or "socket" screws. These work great for the bulkheads and upper deck, because the head is beefy enough that they don't strip. You could also mount the shocks with them.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXBLPH&P=7
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXBLPJ&P=7

I changed all of my bottom chassis screws from aluminum to what I thought were stainless steel, but it seems they are titanium.... because it barely added 5g of weight to the car! Changing the bottom screws from carbon steel to aluminum shaved more than that...... I got the screws loose from a friend, so I didn't know until I weighed them.

Mr. Wishbone --- can you post a link to your carpet setup? Or at least what you typically start with? I found one I liked for our low/med bite carpet track while it was open, and I'd like to compare them! OR if you've found a good starting point for high bite carpet..... I don't get many chances to test on it
Thanks. You say changed the bottom chassis screws from aluminum to what you thought were stainless steel, but it seems they are titanium. You mean changed them from what you thought was stainless steel to aluminum? Or....

What is the difference between as you call it "bottom chassis screws" and "bottom screws from carbon steel"?
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Old 09-20-2012, 02:27 AM   #4252
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Originally Posted by Kensei View Post
Thanks. You say changed the bottom chassis screws from aluminum to what you thought were stainless steel, but it seems they are titanium. You mean changed them from what you thought was stainless steel to aluminum? Or....

What is the difference between as you call it "bottom chassis screws" and "bottom screws from carbon steel"?

Have you actually bought this car yet?
Do you own any touring car?
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:25 AM   #4253
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Originally Posted by Benzaah View Post
Have you actually bought this car yet?
Do you own any touring car?
OK, well thanks for nothing bucko!
S411 is crossed off my list as of now!
I won't be of any nuisance to you anymore!
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:39 AM   #4254
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Originally Posted by dawgmeat View Post
I disagree with the performance of the serpent shocks. when the original shocks came out, it was hit or miss with the shaft rubbin' against the snap ring no matter how well the their built, additionally trying to build the shocks with even rebound was a plain in the butt. there was was nothing smooth about them.


BTW I built them correctly so no need to imply that I didn't.
I sense much anger in you

by the way by original shocks which one do you mean???? let latest RCM's or the previous versions.

the only thing the new shock now needs is a more stable bladder like we have in the 811. the new machines pistons are definately an improvement over the plastic one that rub against the casing.

New ones works perfectly fine. took me a while to figure out and Michael had to show me how its done. now all my shocks are great. just watch out for the bladder getting tangled up. the RCCx was easy to build and match. the RCms are harder to build but stay consistent longer.

for me the best would be to find a way to get rid of shock building all together..
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Old 09-20-2012, 04:01 AM   #4255
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Originally Posted by Benzaah View Post
Have you actually bought this car yet?
Do you own any touring car?
If you check his posting history, I think he own's all touring cars!
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Old 09-20-2012, 04:48 AM   #4256
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If you check his posting history, I think he own's all touring cars!
He's a troll. This car is too awesome for Trolls
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Old 09-20-2012, 07:17 AM   #4257
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Ran the sport last night in practice, I have to say I am pleasantly suprised. It was real good out of the box, a couple quick tweeks... and it was good on our track.

Running just as fast as the "other" cars. Seems to be pretty durable as well.

Time will tell. Just wish it was more in line on price to Sakura, then the T3r.
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Old 09-20-2012, 10:46 AM   #4258
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Ran the sport last night in practice, I have to say I am pleasantly suprised. It was real good out of the box, a couple quick tweeks... and it was good on our track.

Running just as fast as the "other" cars. Seems to be pretty durable as well.

Time will tell. Just wish it was more in line on price to Sakura, then the T3r.
Tim, what did the car come in weight wise?
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:26 AM   #4259
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1420 with a 6800 Team Powers pack and a lw body.


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Tim, what did the car come in weight wise?
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:23 PM   #4260
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Taking the S411 (and the S120) to the USVTA Southern Nationals this weekend. Car has felt very good lately, but still a good bit off pace (0.6 sec a lap at home track fast lap to fast lap) and 0.8-0.9 off on regular lapping. I have not had the practice lately which is a big part of it as well.

As I haven't been following this thread as consistently as I was able to in the past, I am curious what the theory is now on the motor mount. It seems the hybrid V1/V2 seems like the new thing to try? Full top deck screws or still skipping some of those near the motor mount?

Current track is a bit bumpy, but the one this weekend is glass smooth. I am assuming I can stiffen things up a little and go for some more traction bite to power through corners a little more aggressively then? Thinking things like sways, shock oil and springs primarily, as I do not have the chassis and top deck options (just stock and flex top decks, and my chassis's are 2.25).

When you guys go to a new track (layout or venue) do you take the car back to either box stock, or some other version of setup, and tune from there? Or do you take what you have, and then adjust as the conditions warrant?
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