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Old 07-25-2012, 06:06 PM   #3916
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Default EXOTEK S411 Chassis

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Originally Posted by Hoot RC View Post
I have found that the Exotek helps with direction change in the tight infield section of the track i race at, the track is medium grip asphalt. Also it gives the car a more predictable feel compared to the 2mm Serpent.
I agree with Hoot in relation to the S411 EXOTEK Chassis. Found it to be more predictable on a tight technical track such as our Mornington track here in Victoria Australia.
The car can be thrown into corners more aggressively with confidence knowing that it will be planted. The set up of the car is very tame compared to others and i still use the std top deck and not the flexi one.

Below is my setup for the S411 that i used over the past three meetings with good success.

http://www.rabhobbies.com.au/PDF/S411SETUPBITTERN.pdf

Cheers Ren

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Old 07-26-2012, 04:36 AM   #3917
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So, been doing some thinking (yes, it hurt), and I have an open question that maybe someone can answer...

Looking over a number of setups, I note that Marc F tends to run straight arms (1.5/1.5 blocks), but with the same wheelbase shims... so my question is this, does anyone know, or has tried this, and if so, did you compensate for the lengthening of the wheelbase and alteration of the ackerman?

By this I mean... going to 1.5/1.5 from the kit 2.0/1.0 means that you also adjust the front wheelbase, lengthening the front. From a bit of estimation, to keep the wheelbase the same when going to straight arms, 3mm would give a similar wheelbase, and also mean that the ackerman shims would be the same. (as when moving the front wheelbase, the ackerman shims should also be adjusted to maintain the same effect... unless you want a different effect ).

Interested for anyone else's thoughts... it's been added to my list for this weekends testing!
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:44 AM   #3918
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Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
So, been doing some thinking (yes, it hurt), and I have an open question that maybe someone can answer...

Looking over a number of setups, I note that Marc F tends to run straight arms (1.5/1.5 blocks), but with the same wheelbase shims... so my question is this, does anyone know, or has tried this, and if so, did you compensate for the lengthening of the wheelbase and alteration of the ackerman?

By this I mean... going to 1.5/1.5 from the kit 2.0/1.0 means that you also adjust the front wheelbase, lengthening the front. From a bit of estimation, to keep the wheelbase the same when going to straight arms, 3mm would give a similar wheelbase, and also mean that the ackerman shims would be the same. (as when moving the front wheelbase, the ackerman shims should also be adjusted to maintain the same effect... unless you want a different effect ).

Interested for anyone else's thoughts... it's been added to my list for this weekends testing!
Hi Ed, hope you're liking the car...........arm sweep topic has been discussed in this thread quite a ways back, I think Pcar or Martin had touched on the subject, but to re-cap in short, it seems to take some of the edge off the front end reaction, deadens the cars front or makes it less aggressive.

More head scratching for you though, that arm sweep also effects shock angle in both directions(e/w and n/s), as well as wheelbase and ackerman.
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:27 PM   #3919
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I have been running the 2.0 ff and fr to tame the front a bit over the stock setting. I think I want some of the aggressiveness back now and am going to try 2.0 and 1.5 as a compromise.
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Old 07-27-2012, 05:45 AM   #3920
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I have been running the 2.0/1.5 combo for a while, and it suits my overall setup. Just seems to take a bit of the overall entry aggressiveness out of the car.

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Originally Posted by rdlkgliders View Post
I have been running the 2.0 ff and fr to tame the front a bit over the stock setting. I think I want some of the aggressiveness back now and am going to try 2.0 and 1.5 as a compromise.
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Old 07-27-2012, 05:56 AM   #3921
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I have been running the 2.0/1.5 combo for a while, and it suits my overall setup. Just seems to take a bit of the overall entry aggressiveness out of the car.
Given I haven't been able to source another 1.5 block yet, I'll be testing this out this weekend.. and will also alter the ackerman/wheelbase too, just to confirm my thoughts... will report back later
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:56 PM   #3922
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Thx for the info Tim.
I will get the 1.5 block and check it out.
Try Hard let us know how it goes.
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Old 07-28-2012, 02:50 AM   #3923
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I have the 1.0 blocks loaded ff/fr for tomorrows club meet. Im keen to see how the car reacts to changes in the front width as i had been happy with the 2.0ff/1.5fr combo but curiosity gets the better of me. Ill go to 1.5ff/1.0fr and so forth till i get to 2.5ff/2.0fr. If anyone has tested some of these combos feed back would be appreciated.

To add to the above, has anyone tried another brands wheel hexes on this car? The serpent has much wider hexes than the xray ones i have here to compare it to and makes the set of Tamiya skinny ones i have look huge. I guess in my track width testing how much of an effect does changing width at the hubs have over at the hinge pins?
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Old 07-28-2012, 07:46 AM   #3924
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Originally Posted by Benzaah View Post
I have the 1.0 blocks loaded ff/fr for tomorrows club meet. Im keen to see how the car reacts to changes in the front width as i had been happy with the 2.0ff/1.5fr combo but curiosity gets the better of me. Ill go to 1.5ff/1.0fr and so forth till i get to 2.5ff/2.0fr. If anyone has tested some of these combos feed back would be appreciated.

To add to the above, has anyone tried another brands wheel hexes on this car? The serpent has much wider hexes than the xray ones i have here to compare it to and makes the set of Tamiya skinny ones i have look huge. I guess in my track width testing how much of an effect does changing width at the hubs have over at the hinge pins?
Width via hexes will effect stability where the width via hinge pins will effect your roll center. When I have used hexes it feels more like it effects traction and turn in in the corners. The roll center has a much larger impact on how the car handles, lower being big compared to a upper rc adjustment.

Just don't forget to make sure you have good inner wheel clearence when you play with the hexes.
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:04 AM   #3925
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I had to drill out the XRAY hexes because they are not the same internal diameter all the way through. Currently I am running the -.75 XRAY rear, and some cut-down Serpent hexes on the front (machinist friend). I believe he took .9mm off the Serpent ones. The rear tires are only about 1mm from the rear lower shock mounts (running 3* toe). I won't get much testing done with it on asphalt till Nationals though.......
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Old 07-29-2012, 05:47 AM   #3926
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Well, had a really good meeting last night, got the much more settled down, and working really well by the end of the night.

Just to keep it short, ran through a range of different settings, as the previous week I'd been struggling with the car getting snappy (over-rotating) if not driven super smooth, and really wasn't happy with how the car was on low throttle, which was also meaning I couldn't push hard over the run.

Anyway, first on the list was to try out the reduced arm sweep, trying to make the car less aggressive into the turns. Going to 2.0/1.5 (as that was the only option I had), and this did seem to work well, taking away some of the initial, but not enough. Next run, I moved the front arms forward, in an attempt to get the same position as when running no sweep/stock wheelbase (so 1.5mm in front of the front arm). As mentioned in a post before, this has the effect of lengthening the wheelbase, and moving weight backwards.. which should also help to take a away a bit more steering. I also made sure to move the steering ackerman shim to the keep the ackerman the same as well... again an improvement, but I had the nagging feeling I was adjusting the wrong end of the car, and the root of the problems lay elsewhere...

So, next run, after doing a bit of thinking (and chatting to Ryan Maker), made a change to the rear diff, going down to 1500wt oil from 2000 (2gear)... massive difference! So much better, much smoother, and could be more aggressive and confident with the car.
Now, I'll add a caveat here... last night, and the previous night were cold, like less than 10C cold.. which is (with the benefit of hindsight) why I've been struggling. Big lesson learned, get the diff sorted first and with gear diff's that means get the oil right for the conditions...

With that change in the book, the car was much faster too, as I started to pop in sub 19s laps for the first time of the night. In fact the change was so big, that the car was now pushing on power. To compensate for this, I made a couple of small changes (thicker rear bar, rear shocks in one hole, raised outer rear camber link), and these all helped to get the car better in the sweepers.

Overall, a massive improvement over the previous week, really starting to click with the car, and enjoying driving it a lot! Now to get a bit more on-power and high speed steering, and we are close to dialed!

Anyway, setup I ended up on here.

Cheers
Ed
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Old 07-29-2012, 03:07 PM   #3927
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after switching to serpent,i have a bunch of xray springs.they are the same diameter but 1 coil taller.can i use these,and could someone please explain what the diff. would be in spring height.also very happy to see ed here.he was the only reason i used to go to the 417 thread.very nice and helpful guy.
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Old 07-29-2012, 03:31 PM   #3928
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Originally Posted by atmeearacing View Post
after switching to serpent,i have a bunch of xray springs.they are the same diameter but 1 coil taller.can i use these,and could someone please explain what the diff. would be in spring height.also very happy to see ed here.he was the only reason i used to go to the 417 thread.very nice and helpful guy.
Yes you can! I have personally used XRAY, Reflex, HPI, and Tamiya springs on the Serpent.

When going to a taller spring, just make sure to reset your ride height via the threaded collars. I personally think taller springs are a little easier to drive.
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Old 07-29-2012, 03:54 PM   #3929
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thanks,i love you guys and this thread.best one on rc tech.
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Old 07-29-2012, 05:33 PM   #3930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
Well, had a really good meeting last night, got the much more settled down, and working really well by the end of the night.

Just to keep it short, ran through a range of different settings, as the previous week I'd been struggling with the car getting snappy (over-rotating) if not driven super smooth, and really wasn't happy with how the car was on low throttle, which was also meaning I couldn't push hard over the run.

Anyway, first on the list was to try out the reduced arm sweep, trying to make the car less aggressive into the turns. Going to 2.0/1.5 (as that was the only option I had), and this did seem to work well, taking away some of the initial, but not enough. Next run, I moved the front arms forward, in an attempt to get the same position as when running no sweep/stock wheelbase (so 1.5mm in front of the front arm). As mentioned in a post before, this has the effect of lengthening the wheelbase, and moving weight backwards.. which should also help to take a away a bit more steering. I also made sure to move the steering ackerman shim to the keep the ackerman the same as well... again an improvement, but I had the nagging feeling I was adjusting the wrong end of the car, and the root of the problems lay elsewhere...

So, next run, after doing a bit of thinking (and chatting to Ryan Maker), made a change to the rear diff, going down to 1500wt oil from 2000 (2gear)... massive difference! So much better, much smoother, and could be more aggressive and confident with the car.
Now, I'll add a caveat here... last night, and the previous night were cold, like less than 10C cold.. which is (with the benefit of hindsight) why I've been struggling. Big lesson learned, get the diff sorted first and with gear diff's that means get the oil right for the conditions...

With that change in the book, the car was much faster too, as I started to pop in sub 19s laps for the first time of the night. In fact the change was so big, that the car was now pushing on power. To compensate for this, I made a couple of small changes (thicker rear bar, rear shocks in one hole, raised outer rear camber link), and these all helped to get the car better in the sweepers.

Overall, a massive improvement over the previous week, really starting to click with the car, and enjoying driving it a lot! Now to get a bit more on-power and high speed steering, and we are close to dialed!

Anyway, setup I ended up on here.

Cheers
Ed
Ed, is it the hpi silver spring that you are using in your setup? If not, do you know their spring rate?
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