R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-05-2012, 05:11 PM   #3541
Tech Apprentice
 
Serpent Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 67
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone View Post
Yes droop has about half a dozen different ways of doing it. How are you setting yours, or at least, are you using Hudy droop blocks and droop gauge? Or just the over ride height method with a ride height gauge?

I prefer the method Martin Crisp showed me, using a Tamiya droop guage and going off the bottom of the chassis. Its quick, accurate and consistent.
im measuring ride height with a digital caliper its all i have available
Serpent Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 05:26 PM   #3542
Tech Elite
 
Johnny Wishbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,287
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpent Guy View Post
im measuring ride height with a digital caliper its all i have available
If thats all you have then "over ride height" is your settings, very different than droop. You could look up David Juan method of setting droop with a caliper, its a good way to do it as well.
__________________
Gary Lanzer
Team VBC HK
Team R1WURKS
Johnny Wishbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 05:47 PM   #3543
Tech Apprentice
 
Serpent Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 67
Default

this is how i learned to do it

Remove wheels and tyres
Place flat on setup board, and measure to top of axles.
Then using; [((Td/2) + 2) - Ha] - Rh = Droop (in mm)

Where Td = Tire diameter, Ha = height to top of axle, Rh = Ride Height

using that method i have 5mm of droop with a variance of .02mm between axles, so thats one problem i have for sure, on this car is the best method for removing droop just adjusting the suspension stops?
Serpent Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 05:52 PM   #3544
Tech Apprentice
 
Serpent Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 67
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpent Guy View Post
this is how i learned to do it

Remove wheels and tyres
Place flat on setup board, and measure to top of axles.
Then using; [((Td/2) + 2) - Ha] - Rh = Droop (in mm)

Where Td = Tire diameter, Ha = height to top of axle, Rh = Ride Height

using that method i have 5mm of droop with a variance of .02mm between axles, so thats one problem i have for sure, on this car is the best method for removing droop just adjusting the suspension stops?
and honestly i think my math is wrong here, just doing the simple dirt test of picking up the car till the tires lift off the table and measuring the difference in that vs sitting ride height is only 2mm, so im alittle lost, if you cant tell im more of an off road guy
Serpent Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 05:55 PM   #3545
Tech Regular
 
rdlkgliders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: So. Cal High Desert Hobbies
Posts: 458
Trader Rating: 21 (96%+)
Default

I use the droop gauge placed under chassis and measured under outer pivot pin . You can then take the calipers and open them wide, hold them up on the skinny sliding piece that comes out the bottom end and slide down onto the top of the wishbone outer pivot pin. you can now match side to side exactly. You can also use this method to measure the difference of the sitting ride hieght and the extended hieght ( Droop ) Measure the car sitting( I do it from the top of the sway bar mount ) and then pull on shock tower to the point where the tires are on the verge of lifting and remeasure. The difference between the resting height and height after pulling on the shock tower is the droop EX: 23.5mm and 26.0mm = 2.5mm droop
Attached Thumbnails
Serpent S411-2012-05-05-16.46.38.jpg   Serpent S411-2012-05-05-16.46.54.jpg  
__________________
Serpent, KO Propo, Viper, Savox, ProTek
Team Waldorf Racing

Your not lapping me, you just caught up to me again!!!
rdlkgliders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 06:05 PM   #3546
Tech Apprentice
 
Serpent Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 67
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlkgliders View Post
I use the droop gauge placed under chassis and measured under outer pivot pin . You can then take the calipers and open them wide, hold them up on the skinny sliding piece that comes out the bottom end and slide down onto the top of the wishbone outer pivot pin. you can now match side to side exactly. You can also use this method to measure the difference of the sitting ride hieght and the extended hieght ( Droop ) Measure the car sitting( I do it from the top of the sway bar mount ) and then pull on shock tower to the point where the tires are on the verge of lifting and remeasure. The difference between the resting height and height after pulling on the shock tower is the droop EX: 23.5mm and 26.0mm = 2.5mm droop
useing your method the car has 4mm of droop
Serpent Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 06:17 PM   #3547
Tech Elite
 
Johnny Wishbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,287
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpent Guy View Post
this is how i learned to do it

Remove wheels and tyres
Place flat on setup board, and measure to top of axles.
Then using; [((Td/2) + 2) - Ha] - Rh = Droop (in mm)

Where Td = Tire diameter, Ha = height to top of axle, Rh = Ride Height

using that method i have 5mm of droop with a variance of .02mm between axles, so thats one problem i have for sure, on this car is the best method for removing droop just adjusting the suspension stops?
Yes to adjust the droop you use the suspension stops or whats called the droop screws.

I think your math is ok but I think you have to half the diameter of the axle as well.
__________________
Gary Lanzer
Team VBC HK
Team R1WURKS
Johnny Wishbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 06:30 PM   #3548
Tech Regular
 
rdlkgliders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: So. Cal High Desert Hobbies
Posts: 458
Trader Rating: 21 (96%+)
Default

Less droop = more traction use the droop to adjust the traction at the end suffering grip issues.
higher downstop setting (used by lengthining the droop screws by turning clockwise) = less droop and more traction
__________________
Serpent, KO Propo, Viper, Savox, ProTek
Team Waldorf Racing

Your not lapping me, you just caught up to me again!!!
rdlkgliders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 06:35 PM   #3549
Tech Apprentice
 
Serpent Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 67
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlkgliders View Post
Less droop = more traction use the droop to adjust the traction at the end suffering grip issues.
higher downstop setting (used by lengthining the droop screws by turning clockwise) = less droop and more traction
thank you, im working on getting it set up like the setup sheet you linked me right now
Serpent Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 08:37 PM   #3550
Tech Regular
 
rdlkgliders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: So. Cal High Desert Hobbies
Posts: 458
Trader Rating: 21 (96%+)
Default

JW I saw your post on another on road thread. Are you cheating on your s411
__________________
Serpent, KO Propo, Viper, Savox, ProTek
Team Waldorf Racing

Your not lapping me, you just caught up to me again!!!
rdlkgliders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 10:49 PM   #3551
Tech Elite
 
Johnny Wishbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,287
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlkgliders View Post
JW I saw your post on another on road thread. Are you cheating on your s411
No, all Serpent all the time here.

Guy just needed a little guidance. I do try to stay abreast on all the makes though, sometimes they come up with ideas that we can use on the Serpent or at least try to see if there is any merit for us.

I really like the snake the more I run it, and the more I run it, the more others start asking about it.
__________________
Gary Lanzer
Team VBC HK
Team R1WURKS
Johnny Wishbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 11:19 PM   #3552
Tech Master
 
pcar951's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cow Town
Posts: 1,647
Trader Rating: 19 (100%+)
Default

Mr. Wishbone, you running any asphalt this summer?
__________________
Jim Chapman
PM Hobbycraft | RCAmerica | Xray | Hudy | Reds Racing
pcar951 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2012, 11:09 AM   #3553
Tech Elite
 
Johnny Wishbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,287
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlkgliders View Post
JW I saw your post on another on road thread. Are you cheating on your s411
Hey didn't I see you on another site too? LOL. In answer to your question is that the screws only have to be snug but not tight or those blocks will split. The top plate will hold the screw in place. I used to put a x-acto blade between the holder and the c-clip/gear of the idler pulley as they tend to move a bit and will rub against the idler assembly and cause drag.

I can tell you if its your first time out with that new ride, it doesn't turn in anywhere near as a S411, so adjust your driving or the walls will come up fast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcar951 View Post
Mr. Wishbone, you running any asphalt this summer?
Jim, as I look at sheets of rain coming down here, and the pics of all the snow in Airdrie, I'm having a hard time to get up for any outdoor racing. Really makes a guy appreciate his little hole in the basement track and that feeling of being snug as a bug on rug, lol.

I have about 6 months of parts to test on carpet and now that crazy mod class, should be fun. Although the Island race really sounds interesting.........are there any others in the works? We are always up for racing.
__________________
Gary Lanzer
Team VBC HK
Team R1WURKS

Last edited by Johnny Wishbone; 05-06-2012 at 11:20 AM.
Johnny Wishbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2012, 07:38 PM   #3554
Tech Fanatic
 
Martin Crisp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 822
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpent Guy View Post
thankyou i will try it sunday and report back



my rear diff oil is 1200cst
im running 3 degree rear toe
1.4mm sway bars
50k front and rear shock oil
3 hole pistons
orange front spring/yellow rear

i will be honest, i have seen droop measured so many different ways that have different out comes that i would prefer to keep it out of the equation for now (also im under qualified to get it right lol)

Sorry I took so long to get back to you...was away for the weekend racing in Ottawa to get some experience on asphalt with the s411 before reedy race.

Based on the setting you have I think your track must have very little grip. having said that, here are some things to try.

1) use 300 cst oil in the rear diff - this will help reduce on the on power oversteer.
2) add front droop. about 2.5mm above ride height and about the same at the rear.
3) Your could also try using the grey springs front and rear with 5mm of spacers in the inner upper links combined with 2mm of rear inboard upper link spacers....and also 3mm of rear outboard upper link spacers. The idea of this is to get the front to roll more than the rear to take away lateral grip at the front.
4) If you are running the gen2 ackerman, remove all of the spacers. This will increase the ackerman, which typically will take away steering, but is dependant on the tire you use....but this is the case for most tires.

good luck
__________________
Martin Crisp
SetupWorkbench.com | Power-Story.com | LearnSetup.com
Martin Crisp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2012, 07:49 PM   #3555
Tech Fanatic
 
Martin Crisp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 822
Default asphalt testing this past weekend

Finally had my first chance to do some testing on asphalt this past weekend. The track had the complete range of grip from practically none to medium grip by the end of the weekend.

The setup I ended up with on the medium grip

FRONT:
spring: hpi silver
shocks: 40w with 3 hole piston
ackerman : gen 2 with 3mm spacers
rollenter : 1mm spacers under hinge pin blocks.
0mm outboard upper link and
3mm inboard upper link
toe out: 0
droop: 2.5mm
camber: 1.5mm
diff: spool
front hinge pin blocks : 2.0 for both.

REAR:
spring: hpi silver
shocks: 40w with 3 hole piston
rollenter : 1mm spacers under hinge pin blocks.
3mm outboard upper link and
3mm inboard upper link
toe in: 2.5 to 3.0 depending on the track conditions.
camber: 1.5mm
rear diff oil: 800w
droop: 3.0mm
__________________
Martin Crisp
SetupWorkbench.com | Power-Story.com | LearnSetup.com
Martin Crisp is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Batu Kawan Rc Track Tongga Malaysian R/C Racers 10418 06-28-2016 11:34 PM
DRCW Raceway Chesapeake, VA // Asphalt / Indoor Off Road / Outdoor Off Road stiltskin Racing Forum 10278 11-14-2014 07:39 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 07:02 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0