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Old 03-20-2012, 02:59 PM   #3226
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Why this "delete" ??? :s :s :s :s
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Old 03-20-2012, 09:21 PM   #3227
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I would run Martins last setup from the Canadian Nats for a start and tune from there, maybe only using 3mm on the inner rear upper link, or run a long rear link, but thats about it. You can find it on the Serpent website.
I tried the longer link last week on a low/med traction track that had a couple switch backs and make the car feel lazy. Currently I'm running the outside hole on the rear hub with the outside hole on the inner mount with a 3mm shim on the inner rear link and 3mm on the outer link and it made the car really stable in low traction in the rear. Tried a 3.5 rear block and went back to a 3 block as I was getting too much rear tire scrub - losing traction in the later part of the races. Other then that, running a white front and rear spring on MC's Canadian Nats set-up and the car feels really good.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:55 PM   #3228
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I tried the longer link last week on a low/med traction track that had a couple switch backs and make the car feel lazy. Currently I'm running the outside hole on the rear hub with the outside hole on the inner mount with a 3mm shim on the inner rear link and 3mm on the outer link and it made the car really stable in low traction in the rear. Tried a 3.5 rear block and went back to a 3 block as I was getting too much rear tire scrub - losing traction in the later part of the races. Other then that, running a white front and rear spring on MC's Canadian Nats set-up and the car feels really good.
The suggestions where for the guy running on concrete. I think making the car react too fast is really going to make it a handful, so thats why I suggested the long rear link. But I have never run on un-prepped concrete, so its all on speculation.

I do agree that MC CDN Nats setup works quite well on carpet.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:56 PM   #3229
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I ran Martin's Canadian Nationals setup tonight on our carpet track. I thought for sure the car would be lazy, with so much droop and low RC's...Shaved 3 tenths off my fast lap and top 20 on this layout. The car was so smooth, it looked slow.

We're very lucky to have Mr. Crisp doing setup R&D for us all, thanks Martin!
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Old 03-21-2012, 03:50 AM   #3230
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Hi Guys,

Do you know where i can find the Migthy gripper V2 ?

ThX !
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Old 03-21-2012, 06:30 AM   #3231
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Originally Posted by NUCRPTRACER View Post
Martin when I click the link to your setup sheet the sheet comes up blank with no info on it???

hmmm..not sure why that is...works for me. Another way to get the setup is to go to the serpent setups page at http://serpent.com/racing/setups/ and you will see it in the list of setups. It is the most recent setup under my name.

Cheers.
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Old 03-21-2012, 06:34 AM   #3232
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Originally Posted by pcar951 View Post
I ran Martin's Canadian Nationals setup tonight on our carpet track. I thought for sure the car would be lazy, with so much droop and low RC's...Shaved 3 tenths off my fast lap and top 20 on this layout. The car was so smooth, it looked slow.

We're very lucky to have Mr. Crisp doing setup R&D for us all, thanks Martin!
Glad you like the setup. Your description of the setup feel is exactly what I was goiong for...smooth and easy to drive...but deceptively quick. I found when I went to grey springs all around it may feel like it has more corner speed, but it was a little harder to drive and it felt a little more edgy...but it might be something for you try and see if you like it better. in the end I went back to the white/white springs as I had more confidence as to where the car was going to go.

cheers.
M
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Old 03-21-2012, 07:37 AM   #3233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duckman996 View Post
I tried the longer link last week on a low/med traction track that had a couple switch backs and make the car feel lazy. Currently I'm running the outside hole on the rear hub with the outside hole on the inner mount with a 3mm shim on the inner rear link and 3mm on the outer link and it made the car really stable in low traction in the rear. Tried a 3.5 rear block and went back to a 3 block as I was getting too much rear tire scrub - losing traction in the later part of the races. Other then that, running a white front and rear spring on MC's Canadian Nats set-up and the car feels really good.
I am running the longest links front and rear and have also noticed that it is in the switchbacks that the car developes a lazy feel (pushes apex out).
I was wondering if running shorter front links giving me some camber gain would help to create more forward bite without upsetting weight transfer much. Just a thought.
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Last edited by rdlkgliders; 03-22-2012 at 05:38 AM.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:58 AM   #3234
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Does anyone know when the RCM shocks will be released? Price?

Also, what material were the plastics in the LE kits?


Thanks,
Steve

I have my nearly perfect LE kit listed on here in the main for sale forum. The next kit is coming soon.
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Old 03-22-2012, 07:28 AM   #3235
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Originally Posted by rdlkgliders View Post
I am running the longest links front and rear and have also noticed that it is in the switchbacks that the car developes a lazy feel (pushes apex out).
I was wondering if running shorter front links giving me some camber gain would help to create more forward bite without upsetting weight transfer much. Just a thought.
More camber gain in the front will likely not affect forward bite much, as the front suspension is likely fully extended (not compressed) while under acceleration. More camber gain in the rear would hurt forward bite.

As for pushing from apex out...I will assume you are on-power from apex out. More Camber gain will have a greater impact on corner entry and middle of corner...but once you get on the power since the front of the car raises up, the camber gain will likely have very little impact.

If you are looking for more steering on exit of corner you could try these types of changes.
a) stiffer rear bar
b) less front droop
c) stiffer rear spring
d) narrow rear track width
e) longer rear upper link (i.e. less camber gain in the rear) This has more impact than the front link lenght...because the rear suspension is compressed.
f) lower rear roll center
g) higher front roll center

Hopefully this is consistent with my cheat sheet in my setup app

Hope this helps.

Cheers.
Martin.
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Old 03-22-2012, 07:53 AM   #3236
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@Martin

Are f & g mixed up? Wouldn't lowering the rear rollcenter give more rear grip and raising the front rollcenter lose front grip making the push worst? If not, could you please explain how they work under this condition. "As for pushing from apex out...I will assume you are on-power from apex out."

Thx
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:06 AM   #3237
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Originally Posted by Sydewynder View Post
@Martin

Are f & g mixed up? Wouldn't lowering the rear rollcenter give more rear grip and raising the front rollcenter lose front grip making the push worst? If not, could you please explain how they work under this condition. "As for pushing from apex out...I will assume you are on-power from apex out."

Thx
The increased roll may do one of two things..... roll the tires over a bit further, past the optimum contact patch.... And/or, increase the difference in weight load on the tires, which depending on the current grip level/setup can reduce lateral grip.

.... correct?!?
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Old 03-22-2012, 06:23 PM   #3238
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Originally Posted by corallyman View Post
Does anyone know when the RCM shocks will be released? Price?
I don't have the answer for this, but I want to add that, today, I tried some other membrane shocks (tamiya). In my opinion, the car was much more planted, and it allowed me to really drive the car harder into corners.
The car drove a lot more confidently and was noticeably more consistent than the original shocks.

I don't possess the technical explanation talent that Martin has so you'll have to wait untill his review of the shocks to get the dynamic terms and fancy language. But I am definitely looking forward to these new shocks after trying the tamiya's.

I would suppose that the downfall to membrane shocks is that there is a lot of maintenance if you want them to feel consistent. but i would say that depends on what level of driving you're at and if you can even feel the change in the shock action as the orings and membranes swell. but with tamiyas, they always feel really good with new orings and bladders.
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:57 PM   #3239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Crisp View Post
More camber gain in the front will likely not affect forward bite much, as the front suspension is likely fully extended (not compressed) while under acceleration. More camber gain in the rear would hurt forward bite.

As for pushing from apex out...I will assume you are on-power from apex out. More Camber gain will have a greater impact on corner entry and middle of corner...but once you get on the power since the front of the car raises up, the camber gain will likely have very little impact.

If you are looking for more steering on exit of corner you could try these types of changes.
a) stiffer rear bar
b) less front droop
c) stiffer rear spring
d) narrow rear track width
e) longer rear upper link (i.e. less camber gain in the rear) This has more impact than the front link lenght...because the rear suspension is compressed.
f) lower rear roll center
g) higher front roll center

Hopefully this is consistent with my cheat sheet in my setup app

Hope this helps.

Cheers.
Martin.
Ya I figured A,B,C wouldd be on your list I was going for a minimal change in weight transfer. I overlooked the on power weight transfer to the rear...oops
I am running a 1.2 rear and 1.4 front. I will try my 1.4 rear and then maybe even try a 1.6 front with 1.4 rear.
Thanks
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:17 AM   #3240
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Originally Posted by Sydewynder View Post
@Martin

Are f & g mixed up? Wouldn't lowering the rear rollcenter give more rear grip and raising the front rollcenter lose front grip making the push worst? If not, could you please explain how they work under this condition. "As for pushing from apex out...I will assume you are on-power from apex out."

Thx
Raising the front roll center (ie. taking spacers away from inboard upper links) will make the car push more into the corner, but will make it have more steering on-power as you exit the corner. You need to be careful with this adjustment as it can start to make the car feel like it turns on the nose too much as you pickup the throttle.

Lowering the rear roll center (i.e. adding spacers to the iboard upper links) will make the rear of the car roll more which will take rear grip in the middle and exit of the corner giving you more steering on-power as you exit the corner. you also need to be careful with this adjustment as you pick up the throttle it can make the rear very loose on exit.

The more the rear of the car rolls the greater the difference in vertical load there is between the two rear tires, which decreases the overall lateral grip of the rear tires. So the lower rear roll center causing more steering in the middle and exit is easy to explain.

The higher front roll center have a push in and oversteer is a little harder to explain. The way I like to think about it is as follows.. With the high front roll center the front outside of the car does not dip as much keeping more weight over the rear tires...just like a harder front spring would. Also...the spool on corner entry as we know makes the car push because the inside tire is fighting against the outside tire by not rotating at a different rate. With the higher roll center the inside tire (combined with a spool) has a bigger impact, because it (inside tire) has more vertical force (ie more grip) than with a lower roll center. i.e. the front tires will resist the turn.

This is the easy part...explaining why it pushes on entry. The harder thing to explain is why it starts to oversteer. Remember that with the higher roll center the difference in the vertical load on the front two tires is less which allows them to generate more grip. When you pull the throttle the direction the front tires are heading have more dramatic affect on the direction the car is heading because both tires are pulling with the spool. Since the high roll center means the two front tires have more grip...then the pulling effect of the two front tires is increased. This will give you more forward bite for sure, but will also mean the car will start to following the direction of the front tires more strongly which is why it starts to feel like it turns on the nose.

I should add this info to my app
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Last edited by Martin Crisp; 03-23-2012 at 10:40 AM.
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