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Old 02-23-2012, 04:08 PM   #2926
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Default yup. im confused

i think i understand what your saying with the axis. however. if you dont shim the shock at all, and then shim both the top and bottom with (let's say 2mm on both top and bottom), wouldnt it act the same as having no shims angle wise? for that matter, wouldnt it have the same effect on the car? my theory is that by making the distance between the shocks longer (i.e. using shims) the weight of the car becomes more neutral front to rear. hence making the car feel more balanced/even during braking and acceleration. is that true or........ by shimming the top only, the bottoms of the shocks almost shifts the weight of the car toward the front or rear depending on shim placement. and visa versa.... no?

example: shim the upper front shocks 2mm, and the rear lowers 2mm. then, all shocks are leaning with the tops toward the front of the car. flip it around and shim the front bottoms 2mm, and rear tops 2mm, and the opposite is achieved. does it do anything?




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Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone View Post
You have to remember that the shock angle works on two plains, and really forward/back (shock spacing) is similar to moving your shock up and down on the lower arm and upper shock mount. The only difference is that shock spacing helps forward bite. The only thing to watch out for is any more than 2mm of spacing tends to negate any tuning advantage. The spacing will tend to make the car more stable and easier to drive, move the front shocks forward. Stability increases mainly in chicanes. The same applies to the rear shocks.

Note that the car will have less steering into corners.
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Old 02-23-2012, 04:43 PM   #2927
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I don't put a lot into that part of chassis tuning, and really I think it would be more associated to the shock in relation to the arm mount, when a wheelbase setting has changed. The only thing I have seen of benefit to doing this spacing especially on the top is that it moves the shock top out so that it allows it to freely rotate the rotation of the ball stud, opposed to have the shock tower limiting the movement. Does it help on the track? I never seen a difference but I used to run it all the time, just because of the above, that it freed up the rotation........Now if we where running a solid rear axle, then this would definitely be a tuning aid. JMO
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Old 02-23-2012, 05:31 PM   #2928
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Default thought

i have tried shimming the top and i have tried shimming the bottom but not both at the same time. currently i run 1mm on the bottom to "square" up the shock to the tower. and it does free up the movement a bit. i have not noticed anything with adding shims to the top of the shock, so i was asking to see if i was just missing something or if it was just "hype". i appreciate the input in the matter.

how would it assist in running a solid rear axle? or were you refering to front and rear solid axles



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Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone View Post
I don't put a lot into that part of chassis tuning, and really I think it would be more associated to the shock in relation to the arm mount, when a wheelbase setting has changed. The only thing I have seen of benefit to doing this spacing especially on the top is that it moves the shock top out so that it allows it to freely rotate the rotation of the ball stud, opposed to have the shock tower limiting the movement. Does it help on the track? I never seen a difference but I used to run it all the time, just because of the above, that it freed up the rotation........Now if we where running a solid rear axle, then this would definitely be a tuning aid. JMO
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Old 02-23-2012, 05:44 PM   #2929
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No the reference to a solid axle was in a real car application where your rear wheel drive car has a solid rear axle, shock placement is used to control wheel hop and launch control in drag racing applications.
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Old 02-23-2012, 06:39 PM   #2930
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Default oh

.......


Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone View Post
No the reference to a solid axle was in a real car application where your rear wheel drive car has a solid rear axle, shock placement is used to control wheel hop and launch control in drag racing applications.
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Old 02-24-2012, 09:16 AM   #2931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZORO1 View Post
Sounds like a question for Mr Crisp.
This is a setup change I only tried once and noticed no difference when I ran the xray. It would seem to me that the effect of adding or removing spacers would really depend on the normal forward/reward angle of the shock relative to a perpendicular angle to the ground. If the normal position of the sock is completely overparticular to the ground then the shock would be at it's stiffest setting. If adding spacers to the top for example made the shock move off of perpendicular and gave it a slight lean forward, then I guess in theory the shock would be a little more progressive similar to leaning a shock in makes a shock more progressive.

To be honest however, when I tried this change I felt no difference in the handling of the car, like I do when I lean in the shock one hole. Perhaps others have a different experience than me, and after all I only tested this once.

cheers.
Martin.
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Old 02-24-2012, 09:30 AM   #2932
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Default thx

thanks martin......
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:51 AM   #2933
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Default V2 steering rack

I received my v2 racks the other day but, I'm reluctant to install them. My 411s work so well with the originals. Anyone have any Input after running the V2 rack for a while??
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:00 PM   #2934
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Originally Posted by pcar951 View Post
I received my v2 racks the other day but, I'm reluctant to install them. My 411s work so well with the originals. Anyone have any Input after running the V2 rack for a while??
The v2 steering rack can be made to feel exactly like the original one with the right amount of spacers (I think about 1mm of spacers), so you should not worry about making the change.

The nice thing about the v2 is it will give you the opportunity to increase or decrease the amount of ackerman as another very important tuning aid.
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Old 02-24-2012, 05:59 PM   #2935
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I did not get the serpent shocks yet but I did get some of the springs. I am going to run my tamiya trf dampers with the serpent springs white rear and yellow front.
I was also installing the 1.2 rear sway to go with the 1.4 front and found that one of the plastic inserts that holds the grub screw and snugs the sway from top was broken. big bummer and maybe a great piece to be made of aluminum (what do you say martin pass it on to serpent) it is the piece on the sway tree, no spares oh well I think I will run the sway anyway
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Old 02-24-2012, 06:11 PM   #2936
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Originally Posted by rdlkgliders View Post
I did not get the serpent shocks yet but I did get some of the springs. I am going to run my tamiya trf dampers with the serpent springs white rear and yellow front.
I was also installing the 1.2 rear sway to go with the 1.4 front and found that one of the plastic inserts that holds the grub screw and snugs the sway from top was broken. big bummer and maybe a great piece to be made of aluminum (what do you say martin pass it on to serpent) it is the piece on the sway tree, no spares oh well I think I will run the sway anyway
Just use the next size bigger sway bar bushing.
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Old 02-24-2012, 06:50 PM   #2937
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It's not the bushing it is the other part on the parts tree, It is the part that the grub screw threads through to put pressure on the bar, the bottom is broken leaving it possible for the plastic insert to come out.
kinda hard to explain....
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Old 02-24-2012, 07:18 PM   #2938
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I also got my v2 steering rack. Going to put it on this week. I can't wait to add that to the tuning ability. On my 417 I always played with that. It can be a very important change.
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:35 PM   #2939
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Hi Martin,

I have installed the v2 rack and will do some testing tomorrow, but what I found the bump steer become toe-in while the arms moving upward. I remember with v1 rack bump steer tend to make toe-out.

Have you do some mod on the rack like some others, or shall I ignore the bump steer and concentrate of Ackerman testing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Crisp View Post
The v2 steering rack can be made to feel exactly like the original one with the right amount of spacers (I think about 1mm of spacers), so you should not worry about making the change.

The nice thing about the v2 is it will give you the opportunity to increase or decrease the amount of ackerman as another very important tuning aid.
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Old 02-25-2012, 03:41 AM   #2940
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My son has the opportunity to drive with the S411 this year.
What spare parts are good to have and what option parts are a must have.
Or is the smarter option just to buy a second car for spares.
As he will be the only one driving the s411
Thanks
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