Martin Crisp

Hi.

The picture is not the car I raced that weekend...I raced the LE at the Hudy race. I believe that is just an old picture of my car that was put up there.

I used the longest possible link in the rear of the car to free up the rear a little. The longer link gives less camber gain and also lowers the roll center a little bit. The longer link also means the roll center changes less as the car rolls, making it feel a little more consistent.

When I got back to my home track I ended up using the outer holes on the rear arms. I had should have made that change at the hudy race, but never got around to it with all the other changes I had made. The rear was a little too soft when using the inside holes making the back of the car roll too much relative to the front on corner exit. Using the wider holes in the rear made the corner exit more stable.

I see a lot of the setups seem to like using the yellow spring in the rear and the orange spring in the front, but when I tried that I felt the car was terrible in the middle and exit of the corner. I have tried a lot of different spring combinations and really like the gray spring on the rear and the black on the front. If the car starts to traction roll and I can't resolve it in another manner, I might use the grey on the front, but doing so will take away some mid corner speed as the chassis will rub on the carpet.

I also tried a shorter link in the front this past weekend at my local track and got the results I expected, due to resulting increase in camber gain and roll center in the front. The car had more lateral grip at the front of the car giving it more steering, but I think it was a little edgy and with the extreme grip levels at our track, the car would start to traction roll or bicycle more easily. So I went back to the longer front links. Next weekend I will try the shorter link but add approx 0.5mm of inboard spacers to keep the roll center low and see if that helps.

I am really starting to get a feel for this car...and love it. I am looking forward to the snowbirds race. That race is very competitive.

jimjav

iTrader: (1)

Hello Martin,

I am new with Touring Cars, and for me it is a bit strange changing from yellow / orange to grey / black. They are like more than three times harder. Maybe it 's because it's carpet and I am used to run asphalt outdoors.

I have also another question, I am having some problems with the rear end outing the turns with throttle, I loose so easy the rear end. I'm using box set-up, maybe with the 3.5 on the rear I will win something?

Regards

Javier,

New Spring ratings
N/mm lb/inch
White 2,3 13,0
Yellow 2,8 16,0
Orange 3,4 19,5
Red 4,1 23,5
Pink 4,9 28,0
Blue 5,8 33,0
Purple 6,8 39,0
Green 8,0 45,5
Grey 9,0 51,5
Black 10,0 57,0

corallyman

iTrader: (101)

Jimjav,

You have some incorrect numbers on the springs that you posted. This is directly from the Serpent website. These are all TC springs and 23mm in length.


New Spring ratings
N/mm lb/inch
White 2,3 13,0
Grey 2,6 14,8
Yellow 2,8 16,0
Black 2,9 16,5
Orange 3,4 19,5
Green 3,5 19,9
Red 4,1 23,5
Pink 4,9 28,0

Steve

Pattojnr

iTrader: (19)

the new TC springs are the grey, black and green. steps inbetween white yellow and orange.

jimjav

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Steve and Pattojnr,


Those rates are more logical, I also copied from Serpent website, as I can't post links, I copied it from the list of the Spring set, #160310

So I will put in my list of things to buy grey and black springs.

Cheers

Pattojnr

iTrader: (19)

do make sure they are the New TC springs
#160297 etc. Serpent also has black green and grey springs for the 8th scale. you would be dissapointed if you managed to get them.

JamesReilly

iTrader: (59)

The Race:This last weekend was the third leg of the Mid West Grand Slam Series at The Big Rug in Indy, what can say this place
is great, good lighting, great food, great people running the track.

Alston Kelso and myself were in attendance, this would really be our first big race with the S411’s so we were both a little nervous to see how we stacked up. Racers such as Dave Johnson, Chris Geotz, Bill Sydor, Junior Norton, and Mike Slaughter,
were there so I knew this would be no easy race to finish near the front.

The Qualifying: So we got there Friday night and got setup and did a little practice for a few hours but we decided to just wait and learn the track as we found out that they had sprayed the track earlier that day so you know it was going to change some as it had a chance to dry overnight. Saturday morning we started to make changes for the track and conditions. We both also ran the 13.5 open class, but just ran our stock
cars to gain further track time and test ideas for the next round. With our changes for the third round I felt our cars were very good and looking
forward to Sunday.

Sunday 4th round qualifying didn’t work out for me as well as I wanted so I slipped from 2nd to 4th in 17.5 but 2nd thought 4th was less then 0.5 sec apart so it was a very close. Kelso however made good use of the fourth round by being on a 31 one lap pace for the first three minutes TQ was a 30 6:02 but unfortunately due to a few mistakes had to settle for a 30 6:09 which put him 5th.
In 13.5 we ended up sitting 3rd for Kelso and 4th for me, we both had cars that could go faster then where we qualified as we both had very low top twenty
averages just our mistakes were bigger losing us the precious time on the overall clock.

The Mains: well they were both a bit…let’s say messy. I made a good start in the 17.5 run getting to 3rd but came through the sweeper and flipped, then tapped, then ended up last..ugh! I proceeded to make a run back to 4th only 5 seconds behind 2nd and 3rd. I honestly don’t know how Kelso’s race went or what happened from his race I do know he finished 8th. I do know that only three cars ran in the 11’s in the main and two of them were Serpent S411’s.
13.5 was a little of the same on the start and I made a few little mistake of my own having me run around in 3rd for most of the race, right at the end was very exciting as Bill Sydor had some sort on incident causing me to be right on his bumper for the last 2 or 3 laps. I was close but I couldn’t but a clean pass on him so I finished 3rd and Kelso 4th. In 13.5 main I ran a 11.757 which was the fastest anyone went in either main by a tenth!

The Cars: Both our cars are the latest kits with the 2.25mm chassis and the 2mm top deck. Hard arms and Med Chubs, steering knuckles and uprights. The other options that we used are gear diff for the front, the one piece motor mount and lipo holders. We also cut the rear of the top deck for increased rear flex and traction.

The Thanks: Serpent, Chicky, Fantom Racing, My Family, Alston and the MSI Crew,
Juinor Norton you know why . The Big Rug and MSI Racing.

I’ll have to fill out a setup sheet tonight when I get home as I can’t create a pdf here and pics of the cut top deck.

Remember the fourth leg is at MSI at the end of February make plans to be there!!

Martin Crisp

I see the other posts clarified the spring rates associated with the colors I am using as listed below.

green 19.9
orange 19.6
black 16.5
yellow 16
grey 14.8
white 13

So my setup is a little softer in the rear and a lot softer in the front compared to the kit setup.

As for the 3.5...yes this will help reduce the onpower oversteer, but will take away some mid corner steering. Another way to help reduce the on-power oversteer is to raise the rear roll center a little. If you are running 1mm more spacers inboard than outboard on the upper link, then run the same amount of spacers inboard as outboard..this will help reduce the cars tendency to keep turning as you finish the corner.

cheers.
Martin.

Martin Crisp

Hey James...

I wish I had gone to that race...with the competition being so tight. Send me your setup...I am curious to see what you used. Did you have traction rolling problems before the main?.

Are you going to the snowbirds race?

Cheers

masterhit

iTrader: (16)

If any car earned the "hard charger" award during the main, it would be the Serpents!

2nd and 3rd fastest laps, and more importantly 2nd and 3rd fastest top 5, 10, and 20!

Good job guys. It was fun!

Mike Slaughter

98tahoeboy

iTrader: (16)

Thanks James with us bouncing ideas off each other I think helped tremendously with the success of our serpents this past weekend. As James stated before the downfall to a more successful race was our own faults. Just made to many mistakes and I for one started to over drive the car trying to make up time. Which we all know once that time is gone its gone. Overall I have to say I was amazed with how well the car responded to small changes as well as how durable it was. For those that were there I know you were able to check out my durability test. I am still pleased and and still impressed with the performance of the S411 after just one month with it. Still have a lot of time and durability test to go.

-Alston Kelso

schreff

iTrader: (5)

You guys let Dave win??? WTH??

C'mon Jimmy, I know you had some hacking left in ya to get Dave so he didn't get that W.

Shoot me a PM on what you've been messing around with on setup. We can talk shop.

98tahoeboy

iTrader: (16)

Thanks Slaughter the cars were scary fast with great steering. Lol. With only having a year and 9 months of competitve tc racing and Serpent being my first sponsor I am really pushing hard to achieve greatness. I'm currently enrolled in a class called "Keeping it together for six minutes". Lol


Wanted to congradulate u, u did great in both of your blinky classes excellent driving sir.

-Alston Kelso

JamesReilly

iTrader: (59)

Bet you guys though I would never post my setup, LOL
Here you go.

Thanks for the props Mike.

Schreff thats awesome your running the serpent. I have a 811 be that i'm looking forward to running got a setup for that?

Setup sheet doesn't show the shock oil very well so its 40w Losi front and 30w Losi rear

Martin Crisp

nice lap times