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Old 01-11-2012, 05:51 AM   #2431
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Originally Posted by Toughbeard View Post
True on the delrin outdrives. also the diameter is larges so you need to be very carefull how much teh upper link stud goes in.

one of the biggest mistake people do is have their epa and dual rate for steering opened up too much. the reason s411 has alot of steering is because you can drive it with very little dual rate at the maximum epa. I was at around 70 % dual rate and I believe Mustafa was running even lower.

this saves your axles and reduces chatter. we were using standard axles and we had more than enough steering already. I think I can go down to 60% dual rate when I get used to the car more. (maybe even less if you are running DJC)

Hi Sedar - and others.

My post was meant as our experience with the DJC axles. Many asks above the axles - do we need them? My point is, it depends of what you want from your car!

Really need them does nobody!!! The car is fast without. Several drivers made complaints about the chattering, and here the DJC axles helps, but I don't think they go faster.

Our experience is also, that the cornering is slightly different - more bite - especially in the mid-corner. We had to do some changing in the setup to get the balance back in the car.

I can only tell and explain, what we felt and did, when we put in the DJC's.

I agree, many drivers are driving with too much steering output (EPA) on their transmitter. I believe my son is also using about 65-75% - depending on the track size and track grip. When you can race with less "over-steering", you have less tire wear and less tire heat.

We just went back from the big DHI Cup event. The car was excellent. Our setup and race report is available on the Serpent homepage.


About the outdrives: the delrin ones is only for tarmac. They are too weak for carpet. We broke two delrin outdrives in one race weekend (only small crashes - no big bang), as we built the standard steel ones back in the car again. We put a foil above the outdrive and filled in some black grease to avoid wear. It works fine.
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:29 AM   #2432
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Here in the states the carpet tracks tend to be smaller and tighter, hence the need for more steering throw and the DCJ axles. I see the DCJ axles as a tuning option and I'm going to try them this weekend on my local, tight, carpet track and see how they perform compared to the standard axles. If you're running on a big flowing track them I see no need for them, but if they can give me just a bit more steering or allow me to carry just a bit more corner speed then I'll definitely be running them.
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Old 01-11-2012, 07:19 AM   #2433
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Since I have started using the DCJ I have turned my dual rate down on my handset was running 70% and now I'm at 65% our tack is is flowing but I have noticed the car certainly turns different I like them very much regardless if they are a option I think they are good one

I hope soon to be having a run on carpet to see how they go
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Old 01-11-2012, 07:19 AM   #2434
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FOR THE SERPENT LOVERS

https://members.serpent.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11
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Old 01-11-2012, 12:01 PM   #2435
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Exactly. I adjusted my EPA so each knuckle has maximum travel each side, and then reduced the Dual Rate to %55 to have smooth steering out of the corners. I tested with more dual rate back to back, I wasnt faster at corners, I was just having harder time controlling the car and directing it as I wanted.

Then I thought that only solution to have a faster car with more dual rate is to change the setup balance of the car in order to have more rear grip. After having more rear grip or less front grip, I would increase my dual rate and this combination may be an advantage over some circumstances.
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Old 01-11-2012, 01:02 PM   #2436
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Thanks for the info but your set-up sheet is kinda to small to read.
yeah...sorry about that... this site has a limit on the size of the file that can be uploaded so I could no upload my pdf version of the setup. However you can find a copy of the setup here...
http://www.petitrc.com/reglages/serp...109/index.html

I have sent it to serpent as well, so I think it will eventually get up on the serpent site as well.

Cheers.
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Old 01-11-2012, 01:19 PM   #2437
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Originally Posted by Matt Howard View Post
Here in the states the carpet tracks tend to be smaller and tighter, hence the need for more steering throw and the DCJ axles. I see the DCJ axles as a tuning option and I'm going to try them this weekend on my local, tight, carpet track and see how they perform compared to the standard axles. If you're running on a big flowing track them I see no need for them, but if they can give me just a bit more steering or allow me to carry just a bit more corner speed then I'll definitely be running them.
I agree.. the tracks in Canada are small and technical as well...with a alot of low speed hairpins, that require a large amount of mid corner and corner exit steering. The trick is to get as much steering from the front of the car, not by making the back really loose...so the DJC do help.
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Old 01-11-2012, 03:22 PM   #2438
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Hey Martin, go to https://members.serpent.com and see under development if my suggestion sounds feasible. Do you see any problems trying it this way. Let me know. Thanks

DJC, I plan on using them whether I need them or not. But this car definitely prefers less DR which all but eliminates the chatter issue. Its just tough to get used to for a old school, lock to lock, full throw driver, but once its mastered the car works very well.
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Old 01-11-2012, 05:55 PM   #2439
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I have a newbie question, lol. I set the epa so the servo does not exceed limits of the available throw before the steering arm hits the C Hub. What does the dual rate smooth out? Sorry I had toi ask cuz it has been a long time. thanks
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:08 PM   #2440
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I have a newbie question, lol. I set the epa so the servo does not exceed limits of the available throw before the steering arm hits the C Hub. What does the dual rate smooth out? Sorry I had toi ask cuz it has been a long time. thanks
Dual rates by definition are used on airplane radios to set two different rates of throws for control surfaces by flipping a switch. Exponential can be used to alter the steering "curve" by making the servo move more or less around center depending on which way the curve is going, I usually run 10%-15% expo on the steering so it's not so sensitive around center. The steering rate is used to cut down the steering servo's throw so the car can't physically turn as much.
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:17 PM   #2441
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i thought epa was used to physically limit the throw of the servo so the servo itself didnt turn so much to the point where it would try to and the the dual rate did something very similar to that. what i could do is read the directions, lol.
lemme see what the airtronics site has on it.
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:19 PM   #2442
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Originally Posted by todb View Post
i thought epa was used to physically limit the throw of the servo so the servo itself didnt turn so much to the point where it would try to and the the dual rate did something very similar to that. what i could do is read the directions, lol.
lemme see what the airtronics site has on it.
EPA and steering rate are basically the same thing, just different terms. Usually EPA is adjusted seperatly left and right while steering rate adjusts both
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:24 PM   #2443
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ok, i was on the right track, thank you from one service member to another.
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Old 01-12-2012, 06:27 AM   #2444
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I set my steering up different to how some of you have explained. I will initially run the car with full steering and then dial down the dual rate till i have around 70%. I will then put the car on the hudy set up and find out how many degrees of steering this is. Usually this is around 22 degrees, so i will then turn the dual rate back up to 100% and adjust the epa's down so i have an extra degree or 2 as back up. I then find when i do adjust the dual rate i get a much finer adjustment.
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Old 01-12-2012, 06:33 AM   #2445
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Hey Martin, go to https://members.serpent.com and see under development if my suggestion sounds feasible. Do you see any problems trying it this way. Let me know. Thanks
.
I left my comments on that team forum.
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