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Old 01-02-2012, 06:35 PM   #2371
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Stills needs to go on the setup board and paint a body. Cant wait...lol. Question for everyone. What are you guys using for pinion and spur combo for 17.5 class? Coming from 1/8 onroad, I a little lost on this subject so I went with what the guys at the hobby shop recommended after they did some calcs. 108/53.( 64 pitch) Yahhh... it doesnt fit... pinion is way to big and there's not enough room to slide the motor down. lol... The biggest i can do is a 30 tooth. Martin...if you have some info on this subject in your app, I would give it another star to make it 6. lol. So back to the original question...what pinion/spur combo? or better yet, a link to some info that sheds some light on this subject. Thanks y'all. Jon
you need a smaller spur, I ran an 88 this past weekend with a 44 pinion and it fit fine.
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Old 01-02-2012, 07:23 PM   #2372
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Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
Stills needs to go on the setup board and paint a body. Cant wait...lol. Question for everyone. What are you guys using for pinion and spur combo for 17.5 class? Coming from 1/8 onroad, I a little lost on this subject so I went with what the guys at the hobby shop recommended after they did some calcs. 108/53.( 64 pitch) Yahhh... it doesnt fit... pinion is way to big and there's not enough room to slide the motor down. lol... The biggest i can do is a 30 tooth. Martin...if you have some info on this subject in your app, I would give it another star to make it 6. lol. So back to the original question...what pinion/spur combo? or better yet, a link to some info that sheds some light on this subject. Thanks y'all. Jon
If you are running blinky same as we are i am running 96/46 but i do have to mesh the gears with one screw and then take the mount out and tighten the other screw down. Has anyone found a 64 pitch gear that will let you adjust your gear mesh with out taking the entire motor mount out of the car.
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Old 01-02-2012, 07:31 PM   #2373
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you need a smaller spur, I ran an 88 this past weekend with a 44 pinion and it fit fine.
+1 88/41 for me.. run a revtech motor and added motor + (3 marks to the + side) timing NOT SPEEDO TIMING!! running blinky mode.. motor temps right at 150* all day.. tq'ed by almost a lap and won the main by 2 laps.. top 20 laps seperated by .087!! yes the car was very consistant..

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If you are running blinky same as we are i am running 96/46 but i do have to mesh the gears with one screw and then take the mount out and tighten the other screw down. Has anyone found a 64 pitch gear that will let you adjust your gear mesh with out taking the entire motor mount out of the car.
i use the kimbrough gears and drill 2 holes in it.. one on each side to get to the motor screws.. jeremy
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Old 01-02-2012, 07:42 PM   #2374
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Wow.. Thanks for all the help you guys.
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Old 01-02-2012, 07:44 PM   #2375
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Default I NEED SOME ASSISTANCE

DOES ANYONE HAVE A VECTOR FILE WITH SERPENTS MAIN LOGO? (WITH THE SNAKE) OR ANY VECTOR IMAGE WITH "SERPENT" ANYTHING IN IT? IM TRYING TO GET A PIT BOARD MADE.

I ALSO NEED HYPERION.
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Old 01-02-2012, 08:19 PM   #2376
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Shoot me a PM with your email addy..


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Originally Posted by BAD007SUZUKI View Post
DOES ANYONE HAVE A VECTOR FILE WITH SERPENTS MAIN LOGO? (WITH THE SNAKE) OR ANY VECTOR IMAGE WITH "SERPENT" ANYTHING IN IT? IM TRYING TO GET A PIT BOARD MADE.

I ALSO NEED HYPERION.
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Old 01-02-2012, 09:21 PM   #2377
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I already purchased your setup app, but what I am saying, is my experience is the opposite. That narrowing the rear track increases the forward bite. I have done some searching on the web, and have found the same math that is in your app, but I have also found some evidence to support my observations. I realize there are so many variables, after the search I am more curious which of the variables have the biggest impact while working with the track width ( I guess ).. Any thoughts ?
First...thanks for buying the app...i hope you like it.

In terms of my thoughts on your observations... with the more narrow rear, enabling more rear roll and thus mid corner rotation it might give you the sensation that you finish the corner with good forward bite, as the car will tend to square up and go.



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Originally Posted by haywood View Post
Martin

After getting in some more time with the car how would you compare it against your Xrays? If you are faster with the 411 what do you attribute that to? Thanks
I would say the performance is fairly similar between the two cars. I had a full day of practice with the serpent on Friday last week and managed to go 2 tenth's quicker than I ever did with the xray (17.5 boosted) but that could have been a function of running the same tires a few laps then adding more traction compound and doing that all day long. I say that because when I raced the next day I was at my normal xray lap times with the serpent. I found the transition super easy from the xray to the serpent and felt at home with new car right away. I love the swaybar setup on the serpent better than the xray...much more precise system. I was pleased but surprised how strong the serpent is. I have yet to break anything, and coming from the xray which is known for it's strength I was initially concerned. But I have had about 5 major crashes with the serpent and nothing has broken. The serpent reacts very well to the setup changes. A half mm difference in roll center shims on the upper links translates nicely to the feel on the track.

I am extremely happy with the car and look forward to learning it better.
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:44 AM   #2378
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Default DJC

I did some comparison between running the standard universals and the DJC. The DJC certainly gets rid of the chatter in the corner and something that is important for the lower powered classes to get through the middle of the corners better. However to my surprise when running 17.5 boosted I was actually quicker when running the standard universals by a little more than 2 tenths, which is lot in that class. It was not a completely fair comparison however as the day I ran the standard universals I ran the car back to back to back while applying traction compound, and the day I ran the DJC it was during a club race, so the tires would not have the benefit of all that traction compound. Based on my experience that additional traction compound additive and the back to back running can often produce a benefit of 2 tenths, which would negate suggested advantage of the standard universals.

The testing is not conclusive by any means, but it would seem that the standard universals are about the same pace as the DJC at least in boosted 17.5. I don't think that would be the case for 17.5 non boosted or lower speed classes however.

Perhaps it is good to have a little resistance from the chatter while entering the corner enabling the driver to push a little harder into the corner?

Has anyone else done any comparison testing...as I don't think the testing I did is conclusive by any means.

Cheers.
Martin.
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Old 01-03-2012, 03:09 PM   #2379
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martin, were you using the stock outdrives or the delrin outdrives?
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Old 01-03-2012, 03:11 PM   #2380
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I know on my 2011 t3 in non boosted 17.5 with the standard bones chattering I was running 11.8's all day. I came in built my ecs's and installed them and changed nothing else and went 11.4! It was like night and day in cornering. I know that it wasn't a 411 but just wanted to give my input. Thanks
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Old 01-03-2012, 04:39 PM   #2381
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martin, were you using the stock outdrives or the delrin outdrives?
I used the stock outdrives.
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Old 01-03-2012, 05:29 PM   #2382
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I wouldn't have though the DCJ would have given you more speed when comparing but they certainly feel a hell of a lot smoother over the standard cvd i have not been using the full epa been running around 75% which would reduce the chatter anyway.all the big race meets I have done here so far I have used the stock ones I'm just putting the DCJ in my car now so I'm keen to see the differance in results as well
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Old 01-03-2012, 05:29 PM   #2383
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Default Serpent S411

Hey Guys,

My name is Alston Kelso I am now running for Serpent America just wanted to give a little input with my experience with my s411. Well on Friday of last week after receiving my Serpent S411 I carefully put to the car together with the help of teammate James Reilly. It was an excellent build everything went together quite nicely with no defects or missing parts that I have received with other company's. The quality was through the roof with the car going together effortlessly. On Saturday I was able to get a couple practice packs with it and noticed right away I was on par with my xray T3 2011. The car is definitely an confidence builder with it being super consistent and being able to throw a ton of steering at it with out loosing the rear end. At my home track MSI Racing we run oval as well as on-road so we have to have an oval friendly track which causes our road course to have some tight lanes. With running stock it seems as though your constantly looking for every possible tenth. So with my xray it seemed as though I could never get enough steering and keep the rear of my car planted the way I liked.

On Sunday I visited one of my favorite out of town tracks The Gate in Brunswick, OH for their first Hang over dash. The Gate is known for its notorious traction so before going I set my car up with just a little push at my home track. Once I got my car set up I threw it on the track and could tell immediately that the car was right where I wanted. I went on to Tq and win easily against guys I normally have really good battles with. I was up against some really good drivers as well as good cars such as the yokomo and ton of xray t3's. I was able to go out and better my tq after each run with out having to adjust much except droop and play around with camber. So needless to say I was very pleased with my first time out with my Serpent.

Some of the things I used right away on the kit was the one piece motor mount. Which I definitely feel changed the flex point on the chassis causing more rear grip. I also used the spool which was surprisingly really nice with great forward bite and awesome cornering. I will test the front gear diff with diff lock later on tonight. Hoping to have much more success with this car in the future.

To Serpent would just like to say I am very excited to be part of an extraordinary team. I plan to be an asset to a team with an excellent reputation. I plan to represent the company in a positive way by helping others as well pushing hard to complete races with podium finishes. Thank you for this opportunity.

I am also here for any questions you guys may have.

-Alston Kelso
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:03 AM   #2384
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Originally Posted by Martin Crisp View Post
I did some comparison between running the standard universals and the DJC. The DJC certainly gets rid of the chatter in the corner and something that is important for the lower powered classes to get through the middle of the corners better. However to my surprise when running 17.5 boosted I was actually quicker when running the standard universals by a little more than 2 tenths, which is lot in that class. It was not a completely fair comparison however as the day I ran the standard universals I ran the car back to back to back while applying traction compound, and the day I ran the DJC it was during a club race, so the tires would not have the benefit of all that traction compound. Based on my experience that additional traction compound additive and the back to back running can often produce a benefit of 2 tenths, which would negate suggested advantage of the standard universals.

The testing is not conclusive by any means, but it would seem that the standard universals are about the same pace as the DJC at least in boosted 17.5. I don't think that would be the case for 17.5 non boosted or lower speed classes however.

Perhaps it is good to have a little resistance from the chatter while entering the corner enabling the driver to push a little harder into the corner?

Has anyone else done any comparison testing...as I don't think the testing I did is conclusive by any means.

Cheers.
Martin.
Hello Martin!
It is a pleasure if not an honor answering you. Congrats for the app, really important tool!!!
About S411, i did a little test about DJC and what i felt is just the same you wrote. Can't declare best lap times with them but the feeling is that the car is more consistent entering corners and mid corsers. I don't like use DJC when there is too much grip on carpet because front end become difficult to drive.
But, I can add that i've tried them with front diff on carpet and they are better than standard univ even if grip is hight.
Bye!
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:56 AM   #2385
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Hi.

We - my son is the driver and I'm the mechanic - are also driving the DJC axles, and we are driving modified on carpet. We allways use the spool in the front.

We also have the same experience than others, when switching to DJC axles: better cornering. Allmost over-cornering. We have tried several things to avoid this over-cornering and find, that adjusting the oil in the rear diff helps a lot. Earlier we used 800 cst - now 1200 cst or thicker.

Also reducing the droop in the rear is one thing to play with, if you have too much corner entering.

We don't like to change too much on camber/caster, as sometimes the tyre wear go crazy. Especially LRP CPX tires, which are often used in Europe, don't like too much camber, as they pretty soon will make a heavy groove on the inside.

The Serpent S411 is a car, which has a lot of steering in every part of the corner at every speed. As a newcomer it is pretty hard to deal with, as the car is steering immidately, when you touch yor steeirng wheel at your transmitter. It reacts quickly and therefore for a newcomer a bit too nervous. As an experienced driver it is superb, and often just want you want or need. I never ever worked on a car with that kind of steering.

Some drivers complains over less rear grip. I don't think, the problem is in the rear but in the front. They have a setup on their cars with too much front grip.

Our overall experience is, that with the DJC axles - beside the less chattering - you increase the steering, and you can drive with less steering output on your transmitter.

The need of DJC axles depents on, what you want from the car. The wear of both types of axles are allmost like zero. As I wrote, we drive modified on carpet, and we have no play in the axles at all. Superb quality. Big A with several +

By the way - the delrin outdrives aren't designed for using on carpets. We drive the stock steel ones, and a tip: we have put a foil over the outdrives and then filled some black grease into them to avoid wearing. Works perfect.

Just my experience to the steering of the S411.
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