Proposed R.O.A.R. rules change
05-30-2011, 02:33 PM
#722
its the same bit as brushed. people will try and squeeze every bit they can for more speed. that and the guy who had setup his car has good times knows how to drive keeps up on the conditions will generate more corner speed and that in turn will yield the motor having to work less to go around the track.
its clear many of you young bucks never dealt with brushed in any significance (lotta folks prop up their experience level as if it helps them over come the 'bigger dick policy' george carlin so famously outlined). The fact that if some1 like me, or another joe racer, or new guy couldnt go put on the same gear ratio as jeff cuffs, larry fairtrace, jason schreffler, robbie dodge, mike blackstock, paul lemieux etc etc etc even if our equip was the same b/c those guys can hold better lines, drive better longer, set their cars up well and thus their motors generated less work, less ampload, thus less heat. their motors survived, u were left to either eat up ur motor tryin or u had to run a tooth or 2 short til u got better around the track. but no1 wants to hear that. people just wanna biatch about it now that it hurts to the tune of 80bux or so instead of 25. Same as if 1 of the above drove ur car or u drove theirs (if they were overly nice). ur motor stayed cooler when they drove or sorted ur setup out, and their car ran hotter w/u sawin on the wheel.
trust me, a big part of me wants to go back to brushed. where all the speedos were dumb, and the motors were at least cheaper. that and like prgm'g, u had to apply some thought and effort to settin up ur motors-what u were doin was just mechanical not binary.
R
its clear many of you young bucks never dealt with brushed in any significance (lotta folks prop up their experience level as if it helps them over come the 'bigger dick policy' george carlin so famously outlined). The fact that if some1 like me, or another joe racer, or new guy couldnt go put on the same gear ratio as jeff cuffs, larry fairtrace, jason schreffler, robbie dodge, mike blackstock, paul lemieux etc etc etc even if our equip was the same b/c those guys can hold better lines, drive better longer, set their cars up well and thus their motors generated less work, less ampload, thus less heat. their motors survived, u were left to either eat up ur motor tryin or u had to run a tooth or 2 short til u got better around the track. but no1 wants to hear that. people just wanna biatch about it now that it hurts to the tune of 80bux or so instead of 25. Same as if 1 of the above drove ur car or u drove theirs (if they were overly nice). ur motor stayed cooler when they drove or sorted ur setup out, and their car ran hotter w/u sawin on the wheel.
trust me, a big part of me wants to go back to brushed. where all the speedos were dumb, and the motors were at least cheaper. that and like prgm'g, u had to apply some thought and effort to settin up ur motors-what u were doin was just mechanical not binary.
R
05-30-2011, 02:49 PM
#723
Tech Master
iTrader: (2)
its the same bit as brushed. people will try and squeeze every bit they can for more speed. that and the guy who had setup his car has good times knows how to drive keeps up on the conditions will generate more corner speed and that in turn will yield the motor having to work less to go around tythe track.
its clear many of you young bucks never dealt with brushed in any significance (lotta folks prop up their experience level as if it helps them over come the 'bigger dick policy' george carlin so famously outlined). The fact that if some1 like me, or another joe racer, or new guy couldnt go put on the same gear ratio as jeff cuffs, larry fairtrace, jason schreffler, robbie dodge, mike blackstock, paul lemieux etc etc etc even if our equip was the same b/c those guys can hold better lines, drive better longer, set their cars up well and thus their motors generated less work, less ampload, thus less heat. their motors survived, u were left to either eat up ur motor tryin or u had to run a tooth or 2 short til u got better around the track. but no1 wants to hear that. people just wanna biatch about it now that it hurts to the tune of 80bux or so instead of 25. Same as if 1 of the above drove ur car or u drove theirs (if they were overly nice). ur motor stayed cooler when they drove or sorted ur setup out, and their car ran hotter w/u sawin on the wheel.
trust me, a big part of me wants to go back to brushed. where all the speedos were dumb, and the motors were at least cheaper. that and like prgm'g, u had to apply some thought and effort to settin up ur motors-what u were doin was just mechanical not binary.
R
its clear many of you young bucks never dealt with brushed in any significance (lotta folks prop up their experience level as if it helps them over come the 'bigger dick policy' george carlin so famously outlined). The fact that if some1 like me, or another joe racer, or new guy couldnt go put on the same gear ratio as jeff cuffs, larry fairtrace, jason schreffler, robbie dodge, mike blackstock, paul lemieux etc etc etc even if our equip was the same b/c those guys can hold better lines, drive better longer, set their cars up well and thus their motors generated less work, less ampload, thus less heat. their motors survived, u were left to either eat up ur motor tryin or u had to run a tooth or 2 short til u got better around the track. but no1 wants to hear that. people just wanna biatch about it now that it hurts to the tune of 80bux or so instead of 25. Same as if 1 of the above drove ur car or u drove theirs (if they were overly nice). ur motor stayed cooler when they drove or sorted ur setup out, and their car ran hotter w/u sawin on the wheel.
trust me, a big part of me wants to go back to brushed. where all the speedos were dumb, and the motors were at least cheaper. that and like prgm'g, u had to apply some thought and effort to settin up ur motors-what u were doin was just mechanical not binary.
R
05-30-2011, 03:35 PM
#725
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (10)
Brushless was being pushed as the savior of the hobby and we all said it would backfire......Because the expectations were placed on it to do so. All the experienced racers said it would NOT level the playing field. We all said it would be up to the individuals SKILL level to learn how to properly gear the car and drive the car etc etc etc....Now that the can has been opened and we all see what's in it we want to close it up again instead of dealing with it and learning what we have. I think it's pathetic. I'm still actually surprised this stuff is still going on about the same thing over and over and over and over and over....
This rule change is about companies selling more product! If it goes back to non adjustable speed controls you will be forced to buy a speed control every couple of months. Batteries will be more important than ever, AND the motor of the month will be back! If that is what you want then let ROAR force this on you. Some of us can see it anyway......
This rule change is about companies selling more product! If it goes back to non adjustable speed controls you will be forced to buy a speed control every couple of months. Batteries will be more important than ever, AND the motor of the month will be back! If that is what you want then let ROAR force this on you. Some of us can see it anyway......
05-30-2011, 03:47 PM
#726
Just like when roar made 10.5s the equivelent of 19 turn and 13.5s the equivelent of stock then changed it to 13.5 and 17.5 then just 17.5 a lot of people spent a lot during that transition i think we the racers should have the say in it or maybe boycott roar and start another organization to better the hobby and get it back to the way it used to be.
one thing i do know about this you will never make everyone happy
one thing i do know about this you will never make everyone happy
05-30-2011, 04:03 PM
#727
Who needs ROAR???????? Until they publish their rule book and their SPIRIT of the rule book.(Ask Tekin about this one) what they say don't mean much. Do the track owners and event organizers need them? Not so much. The only reason I ever joined them was to run their events. Now there are alot of events to run without ROAR intervention. Who needs them. Save your money. Just MHO
05-30-2011, 04:05 PM
#728
Who needs ROAR???????? Until they publish their rule book and their SPIRIT of the rule book.(Ask Tekin about this one) what they say don't mean much. Do the track owners and event organizers need them? Not so much. The only reason I ever joined them was to run their events. Now there are alot of events to run without ROAR intervention. Who needs them. Just MHO
05-30-2011, 04:12 PM
#730
Hmmmm, I always thought that a public forum was to show all sides of a situation, not only the authors.
05-30-2011, 04:54 PM
#731
Tech Master
I haven't seen too many REASONED sides. I've seen a lot of people pushing what they want themselves. A huge amount of rhetoric. A large dose of unsubstantiated performance claims. Many instances of anecdotes that seem exagerated to prove a point.
I guess that is a lot of sides. Just not the ones that are going to provide anything helpful to most.
I guess that is a lot of sides. Just not the ones that are going to provide anything helpful to most.
05-30-2011, 05:21 PM
#734
I am absolutely not against ROAR. They have done much more good for all RC over many years. But with what seems to be sustained popularity, USTVA has their set of rules that seem to be working without membership fees. Why don't USVTA/USGT folks (Rob K) come up TC rules for both stock and super stock? Rob do you think this is possible? Is this something you'd like to do? I know we ran "World Stock Sedan" in the Hurricane series....kinda a hybrid of USGT and Stock TC...just thinking out loud...
05-30-2011, 05:55 PM
#735
After almost 50 pages, how about a quick summary:
1) Just about everyone agrees that we need a beginner class. Not sure why ROAR went with 21.5 when VTA is using 25.5. Blinky makes sense for this class. A lot of posts ask why does every class need to run blinky mode, since Sportsman should be the beginner class. Not every class needs to be a beginner class. Even if Sportsman is TC and not VTA, if the two shared a common powertrain, one could move between classes with a simple body and tire change. At least when someone decides to move up, they could sell their existing equipment to someone running the other class.
2) Some claim that realism is needed to draw new racers to the hobby. VTA is perfect for this vs. touring car, with their generic body styles. Or even RCGT, which at least uses recognizable bodies.
3) Not everyone agrees that the rest of the "spec" classes should be blinky only. Some feel leeway should exist to allow boosted classes, possibly based on track size. A faction argues that boost makes motors run cooler, others argue the opposite. Both sides argue that if your motor is too hot, your gearing isn't right.
4) Many more people don't want to have their existing ESCs obsoleted by decree, when they meet the rules for blinky mode right now. It doesn't please most of today's racers that, in the interest of cost controls, the vast majority of existing racers will need to spend more money to go "backwards".
5) Some people imply that selected manufacturers seem to be pushing their agenda behind the scenes to force all spec classes back to no timing ESC classes. Same goes for locked timing motors. People fear that this will result in "ESC/Motor/Battery of the week/month."
1) Just about everyone agrees that we need a beginner class. Not sure why ROAR went with 21.5 when VTA is using 25.5. Blinky makes sense for this class. A lot of posts ask why does every class need to run blinky mode, since Sportsman should be the beginner class. Not every class needs to be a beginner class. Even if Sportsman is TC and not VTA, if the two shared a common powertrain, one could move between classes with a simple body and tire change. At least when someone decides to move up, they could sell their existing equipment to someone running the other class.
2) Some claim that realism is needed to draw new racers to the hobby. VTA is perfect for this vs. touring car, with their generic body styles. Or even RCGT, which at least uses recognizable bodies.
3) Not everyone agrees that the rest of the "spec" classes should be blinky only. Some feel leeway should exist to allow boosted classes, possibly based on track size. A faction argues that boost makes motors run cooler, others argue the opposite. Both sides argue that if your motor is too hot, your gearing isn't right.
4) Many more people don't want to have their existing ESCs obsoleted by decree, when they meet the rules for blinky mode right now. It doesn't please most of today's racers that, in the interest of cost controls, the vast majority of existing racers will need to spend more money to go "backwards".
5) Some people imply that selected manufacturers seem to be pushing their agenda behind the scenes to force all spec classes back to no timing ESC classes. Same goes for locked timing motors. People fear that this will result in "ESC/Motor/Battery of the week/month."