Thoughts on classes with no timing or boost
11-02-2010, 09:13 AM
#121
So somebody spent all their money on something they didn't know how to drive, broke a lot of parts, and it's our job to make it easier?
Ok.
New for 2011 ROAR Nationals:
Novice/Stock:
Order quick!
Expert Super Stock will still be 17.5 boosted
And Open Mod is always available
Bottom line: Do what's best for YOUR track, but don't act like you know best for everyone. If your track and group of racers is best suited for non-boosted, fine. But changing equipment specs on the national level in the name of "cost savings [one of the top 2 reasons quoted]" is about as backwards as you can get.
11-02-2010, 09:19 AM
#122
I've read through this whole thread and its amazing that there are such diverse reactions.
I agree that most classes should be open ESC with the limiting factor being the motor size for the Novice, Stock, Sportsman (all the same) Class. If the 17.5 is too fast for this class go to 21.5 and optimize your choice of chassis, motor, ESC, tires and body. Most people don't know how to set a rear wing on any class body from TC, to WGT. Learn to be fast driving, not bench racing your parts. Put in 3 or 4 hours a week on practice and setup. Use tools and build your knowledge and skills on your cars, not your wallet. After you have enough understanding or can kick everyone's butt, then move up to Open, Mod, Masters (still the same class) and learn some more.
Every kid who sees an RC car for the first time, from 2 to 92, will ask "How fast does that one go?" Just try and tell that kid that even if he spends $1000 on a full on race setup and enough spare parts to rebuild his car 10 times that his car is fast, but he will have to learn how to drive it. You get dirty looks, the posing and posturing, and even "but I play video games!". I can say with all honesty, that I almost fell into this trap when I came back to the hobby. I picked up lower wind motors, but geared down to slow the cars(almost common sense). My son wanted 13.5s found out Trans Am with 21.5 was a bit fast for him.
All that being said. The only true Spec classes are RCGT, TA and F1 where scale realism is more important than shear speed. locked ESCs and high wind motors belong here. Besides an F1 with a 21.5 and no timing ESC is about as fast, fun and cheap to race as anything you can put your hands on.
I agree that most classes should be open ESC with the limiting factor being the motor size for the Novice, Stock, Sportsman (all the same) Class. If the 17.5 is too fast for this class go to 21.5 and optimize your choice of chassis, motor, ESC, tires and body. Most people don't know how to set a rear wing on any class body from TC, to WGT. Learn to be fast driving, not bench racing your parts. Put in 3 or 4 hours a week on practice and setup. Use tools and build your knowledge and skills on your cars, not your wallet. After you have enough understanding or can kick everyone's butt, then move up to Open, Mod, Masters (still the same class) and learn some more.
Every kid who sees an RC car for the first time, from 2 to 92, will ask "How fast does that one go?" Just try and tell that kid that even if he spends $1000 on a full on race setup and enough spare parts to rebuild his car 10 times that his car is fast, but he will have to learn how to drive it. You get dirty looks, the posing and posturing, and even "but I play video games!". I can say with all honesty, that I almost fell into this trap when I came back to the hobby. I picked up lower wind motors, but geared down to slow the cars(almost common sense). My son wanted 13.5s found out Trans Am with 21.5 was a bit fast for him.
All that being said. The only true Spec classes are RCGT, TA and F1 where scale realism is more important than shear speed. locked ESCs and high wind motors belong here. Besides an F1 with a 21.5 and no timing ESC is about as fast, fun and cheap to race as anything you can put your hands on.
11-02-2010, 09:25 AM
#123
The main problem with beginners isn't getting beat by the vets,its having a car still in one piece at the end of the day.
We had a new guy show up last year with a new 17.5 TC,timing speedo,all the bells and whistles,ran the car one night,packed up the pieces and has never come back.
We had a new guy show up last year with a new 17.5 TC,timing speedo,all the bells and whistles,ran the car one night,packed up the pieces and has never come back.
. You should have pulled him to the side and helped him with his set up. Because truth be told, you're gonna break no matter what you skill level is. That's part of the hobby. It took me YEARS to learn how to finish a race, and it still happens from time to time. The key to that was learning how to make my car "race ready". But i guess it's just easier to blame an inanimate object. On the flip side, if he's that easily discouraged, he would have quit anyway. Tell him to go home and watch Rocky I & II! "GET UP AND FIGHT YOU LAZY BUM!!!"
11-02-2010, 09:34 AM
#124
Tech Addict
iTrader: (14)
The main problem with beginners isn't getting beat by the vets,its having a car still in one piece at the end of the day.
We had a new guy show up last year with a new 17.5 TC,timing speedo,all the bells and whistles,ran the car one night,packed up the pieces and has never come back.
We had a new guy show up last year with a new 17.5 TC,timing speedo,all the bells and whistles,ran the car one night,packed up the pieces and has never come back.
11-02-2010, 09:42 AM
#125
NEWSFLASH!!!
It's just been discovered that when an RC car hits a stationary object enough times, at any speed, parts break!
Early reports indicate the only way to avoid this expensive event is to DRIVE WITHIN YOUR LIMITS AND NOT HIT THINGS!
Not all "experts" agree with this early finding, but already calls are being made to slow RC cars down so that all parts will survive at least 50 collisions before breakage. Opponents to this recommendation are reporting fewer parts breaking at higher speeds when the early finding guidelines are followed.
The battle still rages on both sides, but one thing that can be agreed on; no parts breakage occurs when the cars are stationary, but the racing is not nearly as exciting as with cars in motion.
More as it develops...
It's just been discovered that when an RC car hits a stationary object enough times, at any speed, parts break!
Early reports indicate the only way to avoid this expensive event is to DRIVE WITHIN YOUR LIMITS AND NOT HIT THINGS!
Not all "experts" agree with this early finding, but already calls are being made to slow RC cars down so that all parts will survive at least 50 collisions before breakage. Opponents to this recommendation are reporting fewer parts breaking at higher speeds when the early finding guidelines are followed.
The battle still rages on both sides, but one thing that can be agreed on; no parts breakage occurs when the cars are stationary, but the racing is not nearly as exciting as with cars in motion.
More as it develops...
11-02-2010, 09:47 AM
#126
Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, motherfloppingding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some of the guys that posted in this thread can not get over themselves and their MAD DRIVING SKILLZ AND MAD TWEAKING THE ESC SKILLLLZ to be thinking about the growth of the hobby. If they get their way, these are the same guys that will be posting 2 years from now on how open esc's ruined the hobby and it's just them and 2 other people on the stand.
11-02-2010, 09:50 AM
#127
LOL! So you think that if he didn't have timing advanced, that he wouldn't have broken his car? Question is, was his car dialed? I highly doubt it . You should have pulled him to the side and helped him with his set up. Because truth be told, you're gonna break no matter what you skill level is. That's part of the hobby. It took me YEARS to learn how to finish a race, and it still happens from time to time. The key to that was learning how to make my car "race ready". But i guess it's just easier to blame an inanimate object. On the flip side, if he's that easily discouraged, he would have quit anyway. Tell him to go home and watch Rocky I & II! "GET UP AND FIGHT YOU LAZY BUM!!!"
. You should have pulled him to the side and helped him with his set up. Because truth be told, you're gonna break no matter what you skill level is. That's part of the hobby. It took me YEARS to learn how to finish a race, and it still happens from time to time. The key to that was learning how to make my car "race ready". But i guess it's just easier to blame an inanimate object. On the flip side, if he's that easily discouraged, he would have quit anyway. Tell him to go home and watch Rocky I & II! "GET UP AND FIGHT YOU LAZY BUM!!!"Not sure if it was you or ur friend that helped my friend dial his TC5 in.
Given his car had Over powered motor,... But after getting the car more dialed. My friend enjoyed it more on the track. Untill he Broke the Hub carrier checking a wall. He knows how to drive somewhat, Not every one knows how to dial a car in 100%. And Helping one out to take the frustration out makes the hobby more enjoyable.
Heck I am still learning, Some cars i can dial in myself, some cars just confuse the crap out of me and i cant dial it in even if my depent on it LOL
BUT SOME MOTORS ARE NOT FOR SOME PEOPLE.
SOME PEOPLE PICK UP THE UNDERSTANDING OF THIS HOBBY QUICK AND CAN UNDERSTAND POWER AND DRIVABILITY. SOME JUST DONT NEED THAT KIND OF A HOT MOTOR AND ARE BETTER OFF WITH SLOWER MOTORS AND LEARN GRADUATLY
11-02-2010, 09:56 AM
#128
Cry babies kill the growth because they want to change the rules every year and it's harder to get better when there is no consistency. Timing advance isn't killing offroad! They just give beginners a class to develop in, ie slash. At this rate, we're gonna be awarding 7th place ribbons for trying. Lol@ sissys and racing!
11-02-2010, 10:08 AM
#129
NEWSFLASH!!!
It's just been discovered that when an RC car hits a stationary object enough times, at any speed, parts break!
Early reports indicate the only way to avoid this expensive event is to DRIVE WITHIN YOUR LIMITS AND NOT HIT THINGS!
Not all "experts" agree with this early finding, but already calls are being made to slow RC cars down so that all parts will survive at least 50 collisions before breakage. Opponents to this recommendation are reporting fewer parts breaking at higher speeds when the early finding guidelines are followed.
The battle still rages on both sides, but one thing that can be agreed on; no parts breakage occurs when the cars are stationary, but the racing is not nearly as exciting as with cars in motion.
More as it develops...
It's just been discovered that when an RC car hits a stationary object enough times, at any speed, parts break!
Early reports indicate the only way to avoid this expensive event is to DRIVE WITHIN YOUR LIMITS AND NOT HIT THINGS!
Not all "experts" agree with this early finding, but already calls are being made to slow RC cars down so that all parts will survive at least 50 collisions before breakage. Opponents to this recommendation are reporting fewer parts breaking at higher speeds when the early finding guidelines are followed.
The battle still rages on both sides, but one thing that can be agreed on; no parts breakage occurs when the cars are stationary, but the racing is not nearly as exciting as with cars in motion.
More as it develops...
Last edited by liljohn1064; 11-02-2010 at 11:30 AM.
11-02-2010, 10:32 AM
#130
Tech Master
A few things:
Don't have 3 touring classes. 2 is more than enough, a beginners class, and a man's class.
If you REALLY want people to get into RC and stay there, DON'T tell them to get a TC. They are f**king hard to set up, and f**king expensive. Start off with a pan (1/10, 1/12, F1) with a little motor, and tell them to look at TC's again in a few years.
I've been racing for a few years now, was off-road, now on-road. I just took the 13.5 turbo set up out of myTC as I FINALLY learnt my limits, and put a silver can in it (our next class down).
My main car is a 1/10 pan which I can drive better than my TC after 3 meets or so. Easy to set up, easy to maintain.
Don't have 3 touring classes. 2 is more than enough, a beginners class, and a man's class.
If you REALLY want people to get into RC and stay there, DON'T tell them to get a TC. They are f**king hard to set up, and f**king expensive. Start off with a pan (1/10, 1/12, F1) with a little motor, and tell them to look at TC's again in a few years.
I've been racing for a few years now, was off-road, now on-road. I just took the 13.5 turbo set up out of myTC as I FINALLY learnt my limits, and put a silver can in it (our next class down).
My main car is a 1/10 pan which I can drive better than my TC after 3 meets or so. Easy to set up, easy to maintain.
11-02-2010, 10:38 AM
#131
A few things:
Don't have 3 touring classes. 2 is more than enough, a beginners class, and a man's class.
If you REALLY want people to get into RC and stay there, DON'T tell them to get a TC. They are f**king hard to set up, and f**king expensive. Start off with a pan (1/10, 1/12, F1) with a little motor, and tell them to look at TC's again in a few years.
I've been racing for a few years now, was off-road, now on-road. I just took the 13.5 turbo set up out of myTC as I FINALLY learnt my limits, and put a silver can in it (our next class down).
My main car is a 1/10 pan which I can drive better than my TC after 3 meets or so. Easy to set up, easy to maintain.
Don't have 3 touring classes. 2 is more than enough, a beginners class, and a man's class.
If you REALLY want people to get into RC and stay there, DON'T tell them to get a TC. They are f**king hard to set up, and f**king expensive. Start off with a pan (1/10, 1/12, F1) with a little motor, and tell them to look at TC's again in a few years.
I've been racing for a few years now, was off-road, now on-road. I just took the 13.5 turbo set up out of myTC as I FINALLY learnt my limits, and put a silver can in it (our next class down).
My main car is a 1/10 pan which I can drive better than my TC after 3 meets or so. Easy to set up, easy to maintain.
11-02-2010, 10:39 AM
#132
Regardless of timing/no timing, most beginners don't want to turn their throttle EPA down to 50% until they learn how to drive and complete a few laps without hitting anything. Sadly, they don't realize this until they've exhausted their parts supply and quit. There's no reset or respawn button in RC racing.
There is a huge difference between bashing your Slash up and down the street and attempting to race on-road. Newbies all ask "what's the fastest car to get", hence the Traxxas ads in the magazines touting "65+ mph!!!". Some people just don't understand, even when you take the time to help them or explain it to them.
There is a huge difference between bashing your Slash up and down the street and attempting to race on-road. Newbies all ask "what's the fastest car to get", hence the Traxxas ads in the magazines touting "65+ mph!!!". Some people just don't understand, even when you take the time to help them or explain it to them.
11-02-2010, 10:45 AM
#133
there is already a beginner class to allow new people to get into onroad racing.. 25.5 USVTA. slow enogh to learn at a easy pace, and has all the adjustments a touring car class has to play with and learn with.
we have all seen them while racing on say a friday night. the new guy that walks into the hobbyshop and asks how he can get into this hobby. then he walks over to the track and watches say a TC race, 12th scale, and VTA. then he comes up to you and says HEY! i want to race that crazy fast touring car class. as an experienced racer, you tell him to start slow and work your way up... right?
i sit back and think where i came from and where i am now. i started racing silvercan tamiya m chassis, and now run 17.5 boosted TC, 17.5 12th scale, and still race silvercan mini cooper. all the crap ive learned over the years in order to make these cars go around the track fast, is something that makes years and years to learn. and i still have WAY more to learn.
its the learning curve not the speed that is killing onroad racing. most new racers you talk to dont even know that they have to clean their tires after every race.
you as a touring car racer, really sit back and think about how much you've learned in order to make your car work. chassis setup, gearing, esc tunning, tire prep, body mounting, chassis tweak, electronics knowledge, soldering, electronics mounting, electronics wiring, tire break in, tire truing, chassis balance, battery charging, balancing, charger setup... like holy crap, and yes this knowledge is needed for even the slowest onroad classes.
THAT is why onroad racing is loosing new people. the learning curve is just way too steep.
how fast the car can go is the least of a new persons worries as it is MUCH easier to make a car slower than faster...
we have all seen them while racing on say a friday night. the new guy that walks into the hobbyshop and asks how he can get into this hobby. then he walks over to the track and watches say a TC race, 12th scale, and VTA. then he comes up to you and says HEY! i want to race that crazy fast touring car class. as an experienced racer, you tell him to start slow and work your way up... right?
i sit back and think where i came from and where i am now. i started racing silvercan tamiya m chassis, and now run 17.5 boosted TC, 17.5 12th scale, and still race silvercan mini cooper. all the crap ive learned over the years in order to make these cars go around the track fast, is something that makes years and years to learn. and i still have WAY more to learn.
its the learning curve not the speed that is killing onroad racing. most new racers you talk to dont even know that they have to clean their tires after every race.
you as a touring car racer, really sit back and think about how much you've learned in order to make your car work. chassis setup, gearing, esc tunning, tire prep, body mounting, chassis tweak, electronics knowledge, soldering, electronics mounting, electronics wiring, tire break in, tire truing, chassis balance, battery charging, balancing, charger setup... like holy crap, and yes this knowledge is needed for even the slowest onroad classes.
THAT is why onroad racing is loosing new people. the learning curve is just way too steep.
how fast the car can go is the least of a new persons worries as it is MUCH easier to make a car slower than faster...
11-02-2010, 10:48 AM
#134
Tech Fanatic
whoooo!..i cant believe most of y'all messed this post up...1 question was asked...i dont even know if he got a reply to the question...most fail to realize the rules change from track to track...(just like laws are different form state to state)...some act like boost will never be used again...we ran non-boost & timing @ the halloween classic...the speed was good..hardly anybody broke their cars...so he wanted to take it back to his club...look all of y'all have a choice...if the place your @ dont run what you like...guess what... dont run...or follow the rules that are set..or find a class you would like to run...50 entry...in 17.5 non boost...that must tell you something
11-02-2010, 10:56 AM
#135
there is already a beginner class to allow new people to get into onroad racing.. 25.5 USVTA. slow enogh to learn at a easy pace, and has all the adjustments a touring car class has to play with and learn with.
we have all seen them while racing on say a friday night. the new guy that walks into the hobbyshop and asks how he can get into this hobby. then he walks over to the track and watches say a TC race, 12th scale, and VTA. then he comes up to you and says HEY! i want to race that crazy fast touring car class. as an experienced racer, you tell him to start slow and work your way up... right?
i sit back and think where i came from and where i am now. i started racing silvercan tamiya m chassis, and now run 17.5 boosted TC, 17.5 12th scale, and still race silvercan mini cooper. all the crap ive learned over the years in order to make these cars go around the track fast, is something that makes years and years to learn. and i still have WAY more to learn.
its the learning curve not the speed that is killing onroad racing. most new racers you talk to dont even know that they have to clean their tires after every race.
you as a touring car racer, really sit back and think about how much you've learned in order to make your car work. chassis setup, gearing, esc tunning, tire prep, body mounting, chassis tweak, electronics knowledge, soldering, electronics mounting, electronics wiring, tire break in, tire truing, chassis balance, battery charging, balancing, charger setup... like holy crap, and yes this knowledge is needed for even the slowest onroad classes.
THAT is why onroad racing is loosing new people. the learning curve is just way too steep.
how fast the car can go is the least of a new persons worries as it is MUCH easier to make a car slower than faster...
we have all seen them while racing on say a friday night. the new guy that walks into the hobbyshop and asks how he can get into this hobby. then he walks over to the track and watches say a TC race, 12th scale, and VTA. then he comes up to you and says HEY! i want to race that crazy fast touring car class. as an experienced racer, you tell him to start slow and work your way up... right?
i sit back and think where i came from and where i am now. i started racing silvercan tamiya m chassis, and now run 17.5 boosted TC, 17.5 12th scale, and still race silvercan mini cooper. all the crap ive learned over the years in order to make these cars go around the track fast, is something that makes years and years to learn. and i still have WAY more to learn.
its the learning curve not the speed that is killing onroad racing. most new racers you talk to dont even know that they have to clean their tires after every race.
you as a touring car racer, really sit back and think about how much you've learned in order to make your car work. chassis setup, gearing, esc tunning, tire prep, body mounting, chassis tweak, electronics knowledge, soldering, electronics mounting, electronics wiring, tire break in, tire truing, chassis balance, battery charging, balancing, charger setup... like holy crap, and yes this knowledge is needed for even the slowest onroad classes.
THAT is why onroad racing is loosing new people. the learning curve is just way too steep.
how fast the car can go is the least of a new persons worries as it is MUCH easier to make a car slower than faster...
Bolt on see improvement and go, the new eara is very impatience and ignors small details.
To the people now its like "I BOLT THIS ON AND AUTOMATICALLY IT SHOULD HANDLE BETTER" and they totally ignor the instructions and dont know what that part even do exactly, all they know its an upgrade and b/c it is it should help. No adjustment.
Some Manuals from these high end TC did spend the time on writing tutorials out in the manual on how to set up a car, what adjustment does what.
They also do a very good job explaining if you turn this screw so much this is the effect. BUT WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU SEEN SOMEONE READ THE MANUAL ?
