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Old 01-24-2012, 06:49 PM   #1096
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Originally Posted by redbarton View Post
That's a mini sized servo. The mounts in the Sakura S are for standard sized servos. I use a Savox SC-1257TG servo in my S. It is .07/139oz at 6v. Overkill, I know. It was in my FTSC10 before I sold it.
Figured that would be the case, so sold it with the pan. I am a savox fan myself so was thinking the 1251 once I get the car ordered.

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Old 01-24-2012, 08:27 PM   #1097
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Originally Posted by cfijeff View Post
Hey Grant,

How is the steering servo position different on the Zero S and the new XI?

I see that the new XRAY mounts perpendicular to the driving direction of the car, but from the pics of the XI it looks to mount in-line like the S...

I actually ordered the XI steering for my car as I feel like the plastic steering on my car has a bit of vertical play. I was not able to find the metal Zero steering so I ordered the XI one.

Thanks!!

Jeff
Pretty sure earlier in this thread someone did the conversion and turned the servo. I know I asked the benefit but never got a response. All part of my unsubstantiated info, as I really do not know.
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:32 PM   #1098
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Originally Posted by davenz View Post
I dont use all of the battery holders, as you can see by the pics i use - in this case - xray servo mounts with some ball studs to hold the battery out away from the belts.
I have cut the rear block so all that is left is the rear peice that screws to the chassis, and then I have made a bracket to hold the battery in place.
This ^

Has 2 pics that look like the servo is turned. On my phone so could be wrong.
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Old 01-24-2012, 10:16 PM   #1099
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Hey guys, I have had some more time with the x1 steering in the zero and the s.
when I was running stock touring ( silvercan) 2010 in the zero with the x1 steering fitted, the steering was much smoother and seemed more direct steering, easier to drive.
I have since changed that chassis to 13.5/turbo superstock and at club days it seemed fine, but racing at the Racing Lines International in Auckland, mid January. The track is quite tight technical with some tight corners, and I could not turn it enough when needed so I needed to reverted back to the original servo position with the zero steering.
The s has been fitted with the x1 steering and do not have any problems with lack of steering.
So after the testing, 1 club day, 1 International meeting, I ve decided that the x1 steering/ turned servo did not work for me with the faster class cars.
Maybe, someone could get it to work properly, maybe it was my servo, but for what i was running it didnt suit.
Dave

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Sakura s - mtronics/540j
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3Racing Sakura Zero S-trains-001.jpg   3Racing Sakura Zero S-trains-002.jpg  
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:00 AM   #1100
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Originally Posted by 6376vette View Post
What benefit have you seen from running a very soft spring? In my experience I have never even thought of going softer than 6.5.

Maybe one thing we should be considering in car weight. I'm running 1550g in race trim for the vta class. If you guys are running a much lighter tc weight then I can better understand the lighter springs.
That makes sense. My car is for boosted 17.5, and weighs in at 1385g race ready. I added 15g to bring it up to that.

The track im on is very bumpy in places, and is typically low grip. Softer springs help settle the car. It's also setup preference.
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Old 01-25-2012, 06:20 AM   #1101
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Originally Posted by davenz View Post
Hey guys, I have had some more time with the x1 steering in the zero and the s.
when I was running stock touring ( silvercan) 2010 in the zero with the x1 steering fitted, the steering was much smoother and seemed more direct steering, easier to drive.
I have since changed that chassis to 13.5/turbo superstock and at club days it seemed fine, but racing at the Racing Lines International in Auckland, mid January. The track is quite tight technical with some tight corners, and I could not turn it enough when needed so I needed to reverted back to the original servo position with the zero steering.
The s has been fitted with the x1 steering and do not have any problems with lack of steering.
So after the testing, 1 club day, 1 International meeting, I ve decided that the x1 steering/ turned servo did not work for me with the faster class cars.
Maybe, someone could get it to work properly, maybe it was my servo, but for what i was running it didnt suit.
Dave

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Sakura s - mtronics/540j
Futaba S3010 is a pretty weak servo, I run an MXS DS1210 in my Sakura (12kg @ 0.13)
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:46 AM   #1102
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Originally Posted by davenz View Post
Hey guys, I have had some more time with the x1 steering in the zero and the s.
when I was running stock touring ( silvercan) 2010 in the zero with the x1 steering fitted, the steering was much smoother and seemed more direct steering, easier to drive.
I have since changed that chassis to 13.5/turbo superstock and at club days it seemed fine, but racing at the Racing Lines International in Auckland, mid January. The track is quite tight technical with some tight corners, and I could not turn it enough when needed so I needed to reverted back to the original servo position with the zero steering.
The s has been fitted with the x1 steering and do not have any problems with lack of steering.
So after the testing, 1 club day, 1 International meeting, I ve decided that the x1 steering/ turned servo did not work for me with the faster class cars.
Maybe, someone could get it to work properly, maybe it was my servo, but for what i was running it didnt suit.
Dave

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Sakura zero - tekin rs pro/13.5
Sakura s - mtronics/540j
I like the idea. I am hesitant to drill my carbon chassis, but I wouldn't mind trying it on my FRP car. With my current car setup, I have steering throw turned down to 75% and speed down at 60%. The car rotates really nice right now, and I do not think I would have an issue with it, even with tight track we run on. Glad to know it does not look like a tough conversion.
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:23 PM   #1103
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Ok... lets talk about the steering on these cars..

I have three Sakura S's and as I have been getting more comfortable with them I have come to see there are some challenges with the steering.

Every change you make to the car changes some aspect of the angles and geometry of the steering system.

1) Stock servo saver sucks... It has to be replaced. I have played with at least four of the stock ones and they all perform poorly. This is where I believe a lot of the slop and strange fish tail behavior after a turn originate . I replaced all of the servo savers with Kimbrough med size servo savers and have noticed much better response and control.

2) The servo mounts and servo saver all are slightly different. I have the metal mounts on my car and the plastic on the two kids cars. I have not had any problem with the plastic mounts but they are slightly different in size so you have to play with which chassis holes to mount the servo in to get the cleanest servo run. With the plastic mounts I mount the servo at an angle, the forward mount on the inner hole and the reward mount in the outer hole.

3) From my RC Heli experience, you ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS want the servo arm perfectly perpendicular to the plain of movement of what ever you are moving and in this case the steering assembly. If you don't mount it in this fashion you will not get the same amount of travel in each direction, period, however minute the difference may be. This lead me to find that the stock servo to steering assembly turnbuckle (long set screw)is too short for you to be able to have the ball directly above the output shaft of the servo. I replaced it with a longer associated turnbuckle. I found that it is also important to do as when I mounted the kimbrough servo saver at an angle the ball cup hits the servo on the down travel.

The changes above made a huge difference in the way the car handled, however, one of the big changes I made was to change transmitters.

DAVENZ... From your picture I assume you are running the Flysky system. I have to honestly tell you, I am not sold on them. I am new to rc cars but have many years in rc helis and planes and I can feel the difference bettwen the 3 FlySky GT3B firmware modded systems and my airtronics Mt-4. Even my 10 year old commented that the MT-4 seemed to "drive and feel a lot better" and even as subjective as that is, he did seem to have a lot more control of the car and quite a few guys at the track noted this as well. I have ordered his an airtronics receiver to put in his car which will give me an opportunity to test the two systems in the same chassis for a more objective test.

All three of my cars have some vertical play in the steering assembly. I have ordered the XI steering, since the Zero steering is out of stock and will report back on my thoughts on that.

Thanks for listening. I think these are great cars, but the do require some tweaking.

Jeff
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Old 01-25-2012, 01:45 PM   #1104
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Originally Posted by cfijeff View Post
1) Stock servo saver sucks... It has to be replaced. I have played with at least four of the stock ones and they all perform poorly. This is where I believe a lot of the slop and strange fish tail behavior after a turn originate . I replaced all of the servo savers with Kimbrough med size servo savers and have noticed much better response and control.

2) The servo mounts and servo saver all are slightly different. I have the metal mounts on my car and the plastic on the two kids cars. I have not had any problem with the plastic mounts but they are slightly different in size so you have to play with which chassis holes to mount the servo in to get the cleanest servo run. With the plastic mounts I mount the servo at an angle, the forward mount on the inner hole and the reward mount in the outer hole.

3) From my RC Heli experience, you ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS want the servo arm perfectly perpendicular to the plain of movement of what ever you are moving and in this case the steering assembly. If you don't mount it in this fashion you will not get the same amount of travel in each direction, period, however minute the difference may be. This lead me to find that the stock servo to steering assembly turnbuckle (long set screw)is too short for you to be able to have the ball directly above the output shaft of the servo. I replaced it with a longer associated turnbuckle. I found that it is also important to do as when I mounted the kimbrough servo saver at an angle the ball cup hits the servo on the down travel.
Jeff
1. Kimbrough since day 1, pretty sure the stock one is still sitting in the Sakura box attached to the sprue.

2. I have the aluminum mounts, and yes, they have a different spacing then the plastic ones. I run them in the same holes though, as I do not see the advantage in angling it. Even more so, if you angle it, you will cause exactly the difference you are trying to avoid in point 3, as the plane of travel (viewed from above) will vary.

3. That leading into 3, which I do not totally agree with. In most cases, (all that I have experienced, but others may vary with cars I have not worked with and servos I have not used) that the servo is never the limiting factor for travel. You will always end up hitting the c-hub stops, end of the steering rack, etc. That being said, the steering "rate" will change, as the distance between the rack and the end of the servo saver is not linear based on a roatating axis. Keep in mind, the rack also pivots, and adds to the lack of linear steering rotation (meaning that for each degree you turn the wheel on the controller, the wheels will actually turn less as you get to the extremes left and right). If your rack is not centered, and not precisely 90 degrees from the servo linkage, and the servo is not directly up and down, then the degree of non-linearity will change left and right. Angling the servo will cause that as well. If anyone is still with me after that...I would say that as long as it is not super extreme (45*+), I do not think it will matter, as long as you are setting your end points correctly. My experience is with correct end points, that left/right variance of the variance is not noticable. A stock TC3 specifically runs the servo horn at an angle (as opposed to straight up and down) at centered steering, and the effect is nothing I never felt. Maybe better drives then me, can tell you that if there are 2 identical turns, 1 left, 1 right, that one requires 32* of steering input, and the other requires 34*, that they feel it. As our turns are rarely identical, much less our lines into them, the traction, other cars, etc all playing a factor, I do not think that it is an issue.

Consider how much else in the car is not balanced left to right that could also throw off the steering. The hinge pin carrier wear, tire wear, weight balance, equality of shock fluid, lack of tolerance in spring weights... Helicopters are a bit different, as the left/right servo travel is proportionally a lot less, and those variances have a larger impact.

Just my 2 cents (in a $48 dollar long overdone explaination)
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Old 01-25-2012, 06:00 PM   #1105
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Since we're on the subject of steering...

I put my car together per the kit instructions. I paid extra attention to getting the lengths of all the tie-rods as close to the instructions as possible.

Now is it just me, or does the car have a rather high amount of front toe-out?

Has anyone deviated from the kit settings regarding toe-out and how did it affect the car?

I'm really asking this out of curiosity because I've made minute other changes to the car and absolutely love it out of the box.
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Old 01-25-2012, 09:56 PM   #1106
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Hi Jeff, thanks for you info.. I am now running with different gear in my cars as below
Zero = associated servo saver - scanner ssv-9610mg servo - and I have gone back to 27am as the flysky was very twitchy especially at high speed down the back strait.
the s = associated servo saver - ko propo ps401 servo and I have gone back to 27 am.

yes people Im still sold on xtals

I found the flysky very sensitive as did a couple of people I gave a try with my car.

Dave.
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Old 01-25-2012, 10:14 PM   #1107
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I've decided to go just straight servo horn (no saver), I use the DS1210 in my Nexx10 and Savage XS and they're tough as, titanium geared, waterproof etc and relatively cheap ($35ish) so given a good servo saver is $6 or $7, I'll go straight up, if my XS hasn't killed a servo with the endless tumbles etc it takes, I doubt my VTA car will.
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Old 01-25-2012, 10:59 PM   #1108
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Hi Jeff, thanks for you info.. I am now running with different gear in my cars as below
Zero = associated servo saver - scanner ssv-9610mg servo - and I have gone back to 27am as the flysky was very twitchy especially at high speed down the back strait.
the s = associated servo saver - ko propo ps401 servo and I have gone back to 27 am.

yes people Im still sold on xtals

I found the flysky very sensitive as did a couple of people I gave a try with my car.

Dave.
Adjust the dual rate and the exponential of the transmitter to decrease the twitch. You're missing out on the 2.4 experience.
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Old 01-25-2012, 11:05 PM   #1109
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Since we're on the subject of steering...

I put my car together per the kit instructions. I paid extra attention to getting the lengths of all the tie-rods as close to the instructions as possible.

Now is it just me, or does the car have a rather high amount of front toe-out?

Has anyone deviated from the kit settings regarding toe-out and how did it affect the car?

I'm really asking this out of curiosity because I've made minute other changes to the car and absolutely love it out of the box.
Toe is a standard tuning adjustment and needs to be set according to track conditions and driver preference. Kit instructions are only a starting point. Be sure to use a toe gauge though. More on one tire than the other will cause a jerky pull. Start with .5 degree toe out on each tire. As far as the effects again driving style will affect this as well Read up on toe on the internet. Its one of the easier adjustments to make. You need to learn toe and camber first. If you don't understand these you can change springs and oil all you want and the car still won't work right
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Old 01-26-2012, 12:31 AM   #1110
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Finally i decided to buy a new Sakura Zero S after searching around for a used car for drift and minimal racing.

I will be mostly drifting...and will be using hobbyking 35A ESC with a 10.5T motor.
What pinion gear do i need to get?(to be used for racing as well...don't have time to mess too much with the car)
I saw that i need the 19t center pulley to loosen up the rear belt...is it really needed??
What wheel off-sets for 190mm body for a biffed up look?
This is the body i will be getting...

Do i need any extra diffs or i can lock one up and use it up front or in the rear for each situation?
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