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Old 03-09-2011, 05:30 PM   #961
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Originally Posted by dreadwing View Post
Whats the best price you can get on the TRF417 in the US and from where? I had a 414 back in the day and loved it. Prices are always a bit exp but you generallyget what you pay for.

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speedtechrc.com just have the best price
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:07 PM   #962
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I think adjusting the droop will prove to be the most powerful adjustment to make. What your dealing with is too much weight transfer to the front of the car.

From what I understand, adjusting the front wheel base (D blocks f/r) will give the car an overall wider stance. This in turn moves the hinge pins away from the center point of the chassis therefore reducing the roll of the chassis???? Does that make sense or am not making sense? The wider the stance the docile/stable the handling..

But I truly think the droop will make a huge difference with the handling.
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:44 PM   #963
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Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
On the lower roll centre thing, I spoke to Jilles about it in Thailand. His reasoning for trying it was simply that (as has been mentioned) in high bite, you want the car to be unresponsive initially (bit like a foam car), then roll. Easiest way to achieve it is to drop the front and rear blocks. I tried it, and personally didn't suit me (too unresponsive for my style), but I do get the idea of how it would work.
There's probably something to that. I heard Meen V did the same on the xray, then to get the responsiveness back he ran the hardest HPI springs available front and second hardest rear.
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:36 PM   #964
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Ah I get it about the wider hingepins. Makes a lot of sense. I agree there is excessive weight transfer, not initially, but later at or just before apex. Because I run the car stiff, I reckon. There are so many good suggestions but first I'll go for

Minimal rear sag

1E/1E front blocks

Possibly 1X/1E 2.5deg but one step wider

No goop front, double goop rear

Those things will keep the car flat with high corner speed needed for stock


Some others are

Low front RC + hard spring

More rear toe

No rear swaybar

Long arms


Quite a decent list so far !
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:49 PM   #965
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Originally Posted by CraigM View Post
There's probably something to that. I heard Meen V did the same on the xray, then to get the responsiveness back he ran the hardest HPI springs available front and second hardest rear.
It's interesting you say that, cause Jilles stuck with the same springs... even going softer (blue) on the rear. However, he did go down to 400wt oil to get reaction back, most others stuck with 500 or so.
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Old 03-10-2011, 03:11 AM   #966
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Originally Posted by Bad-Andy View Post
Do you have a part # for the arms you use? My car is acting the same way that hana166 described, plus has very little rear grip and I'm struggling to find a solution as well.
+1 on part # for long arms
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:13 AM   #967
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Hi.

Interesting posts. I'm mechanic on a 417 for my son, and last week we were practicing on a very high grip carpet track - lay out very fast and open, but with some tight coners too.

At first we ran our normal setup using 2x E blocks in front and no spacers at the front wheels. At the rear standard setup XA in front and E block back. Droop was 6 mm front and 5 mm rear. 0,5 mm spacers all way round under the suspension mounts. Upper link mount was 3 mm both front and rear. At the rear uprights we had 4,5 mm spacers. Camber front 0,75 degr. rear 1 degr. Standard roll bars both front and rear. White Tamiya springs in front and blue in the rear. 450 cst oil in all suspensions.

With this setup we had some problems, that the car hooked into corners and tendend to make grip rolls. The rear was stable as usual.

For the first we changed the the droop to 7 mm in front and 6 in the rear. It helps a lot. Weight transfer as someone mentioned. Then we changed the front blocks to D+D and raised the roll center using 1 mm spacers all around under the suspension mounts. We used 0,5 mm spacers at the front wheels. Upper link mount now 4 mm in the front and 3 mm in the rear. At the rear we changed to HPI blue springs and changed to the inner hole on the lower suspension arm. Rear upright spacers changed to 3,5 mm. Camber now 1,5 mm front and rear. Still using 450 cst oil. We also lowered the car in the front to 4,5 mm and 5 mm in the rear. Still we use a PF Mazdaspeed body.

Sorry not to put in a set up sheet.

The car was very quick after the changes and had only grip roll, if he made some drastically quick steering adjustments in the high speed corners. The car was also very easy to drive.

This weekend we have a race on the track, and I think, the grip will go even higher. I will remenber some of the tricks you have mentioned here.

If I found some new tricks, I'll let you know how they works.


PS: we also run the servo link in a special way. We don't use the normal hole in the steering brace between the arms. We use a longer link from the servo and connect the link to the right arm (seen from the back). Changed the screw in the arm to a ballscrew. By using a longer servo link, the steering is not so sensibel as with the normal short link, when connected to the brace between the arms. I hope, you know what I'm trying to tell you.
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:24 AM   #968
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Originally Posted by BCDK View Post
Hi.

Interesting posts. I'm mechanic on a 417 for my son, and last week we were practicing on a very high grip carpet track - lay out very fast and open, but with some tight coners too.

At first we ran our normal setup using 2x E blocks in front and no spacers at the front wheels. At the rear standard setup XA in front and E block back. Droop was 6 mm front and 5 mm rear. 0,5 mm spacers all way round under the suspension mounts. Upper link mount was 3 mm both front and rear. At the rear uprights we had 4,5 mm spacers. Camber front 0,75 degr. rear 1 degr. Standard roll bars both front and rear. White Tamiya springs in front and blue in the rear. 450 cst oil in all suspensions.

With this setup we had some problems, that the car hooked into corners and tendend to make grip rolls. The rear was stable as usual.

For the first we changed the the droop to 7 mm in front and 6 in the rear. It helps a lot. Weight transfer as someone mentioned. Then we changed the front blocks to D+D and raised the roll center using 1 mm spacers all around under the suspension mounts. We used 0,5 mm spacers at the front wheels. Upper link mount now 4 mm in the front and 3 mm in the rear. At the rear we changed to HPI blue springs and changed to the inner hole on the lower suspension arm. Rear upright spacers changed to 3,5 mm. Camber now 1,5 mm front and rear. Still using 450 cst oil. We also lowered the car in the front to 4,5 mm and 5 mm in the rear. Still we use a PF Mazdaspeed body.

Sorry not to put in a set up sheet.

The car was very quick after the changes and had only grip roll, if he made some drastically quick steering adjustments in the high speed corners. The car was also very easy to drive.

This weekend we have a race on the track, and I think, the grip will go even higher. I will remenber some of the tricks you have mentioned here.

If I found some new tricks, I'll let you know how they works.


PS: we also run the servo link in a special way. We don't use the normal hole in the steering brace between the arms. We use a longer link from the servo and connect the link to the right arm (seen from the back). Changed the screw in the arm to a ballscrew. By using a longer servo link, the steering is not so sensibel as with the normal short link, when connected to the brace between the arms. I hope, you know what I'm trying to tell you.
can u post pics of the steering link mod?
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:31 AM   #969
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I've to do some pictures of the cars this weekend. I'll make some of this link.

Just take a longer turnbuckle and change the screw to a ballscrew in the right arm. The steering is afterwards not so sensibel especially in the middle. I got the trick from a top driver.
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:46 AM   #970
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Thanks BCDK - very interesting as my X is already set up not far from this already

Will try minimal sag and D-D or E-E also. Looks like minimal uptravel is definitely the way to go
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:38 AM   #971
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Hi, sorry if this has already been asked, but for the servo saver, are you running the link hole off center (I think the manual says 15 degrees off center).

Also if you are using the center hole where the link mounts to the bridge that connects the arms, how may spacers, if any do you use?
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Old 03-10-2011, 01:23 PM   #972
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I have got the tamiya diff gear to run in the front of my car. My old car I used both ball diffs with the front quite stiff. Would 1000wt oil be a good starting point? I don't want a spool just something that will be like a med-tight diff.

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Old 03-10-2011, 01:38 PM   #973
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Originally Posted by Qatmix View Post
I have got the tamiya diff gear to run in the front of my car. My old car I used both ball diffs with the front quite stiff. Would 1000wt oil be a good starting point? I don't want a spool just something that will be like a med-tight diff.

Cheers
i use 300,000 in my T3 front diff , anything less and it just diffs out
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Old 03-10-2011, 02:09 PM   #974
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I want it to be a diff as I run on a very small technical circuit with foams. I only bought the gear diff as I want something with low maintenance. Spools and foams just don't work.
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Old 03-10-2011, 02:24 PM   #975
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1000wt will be too light mate, 30,000 or 50,000 weight mate. Mugen(as well as others) make it, its what I run in my gas tourer.
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