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Old 02-28-2011, 04:52 PM   #856
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Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone View Post
Syndrome, you'll find that the T3'11 tunes very similar to the 416 series, it has similar roll feel and adjustments are the same, AND its build a lot tougher.
Why are Xray people speaking on a Tamiya 417 thread?

And on top of it trying to use Tamiya parts (swaybars) to go fast! Doesn't make sense!

Syndrome - You can go buy and Xray...but you 'll be right back on the Tamiya thread trying to get speed secrets and look for Tamiya part numbers to go fast!

Good luck with your endeavors!
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Old 02-28-2011, 04:57 PM   #857
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How did the TITC team combat the traction rolling? I'm having my own issues regarding traction rolling.

I've already tried the following:

Widening front track
Narrowing the rear track
Raising the roll center (shims under front and rear hinge pin blocks)
Lowering shock weight oil
Lower spring rate
CA'ing the tire sidewall
Front Anti Dive
Increasing front droop also helps. You should also lower roll centers. Remove the shims from the rear blocks and run both front block flipped with 2.5mm of shims. This is what Jilles ran at TITC.
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:05 PM   #858
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I'm not blaming the car. The problems I've had the last two races have been entirely due to lack of setup knowledge, and not being skilled at adapting to unfamiliar situations. I really don't think the 416 would have been any different, I was just joking about the 417 being cursed. If anything would drive me from Tamiya, it would be their lack of a US team trying to figure things out on our style of tracks.

It is kind of funny that one of the biggest advancements (optimizations?) on the 417 (the motor mount) got cut in half at TITC.
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:26 PM   #859
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Default TRF416X vs TRF417

I have the TRF416X with Lipo chassis from Tamiya as well as TRF417. Doing a side-by-side comparison, the TRF416X allows more chassis flex due to thinner upper deck and split center pulley blocks, in addition I also use the split suspension blocks.

The TITC track is extremely high grip and pretty large, so chassis flex is very much desired. I think the original TRF417 is stiffer than the TRF416X with Lipo chassis, but less than the original TRF416X.

Probably there will be optional upper deck in the work to tune the chassis flex.

Try to use the split suspension blocks to see if it helps.

syndr0me: What problems are you having?
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Old 02-28-2011, 07:06 PM   #860
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Hey Kody,

Yea I have no doubt the Tamiya cars are awesome I just like bugging Syndrome about them! LOL

See ya in a few weeks!

EA
Yeah there both great cars. Ether way he cant go wrong!

TZll here we come!
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Old 02-28-2011, 07:10 PM   #861
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Increasing front droop also helps. You should also lower roll centers. Remove the shims from the rear blocks and run both front block flipped with 2.5mm of shims. This is what Jilles ran at TITC.
Interesting!
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Old 02-28-2011, 07:25 PM   #862
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Originally Posted by malkiy View Post
How did the TITC team combat the traction rolling? I'm having my own issues regarding traction rolling.

I've already tried the following:

Widening front track
Narrowing the rear track
Raising the roll center (shims under front and rear hinge pin blocks)
Lowering shock weight oil
Lower spring rate
CA'ing the tire sidewall
Front Anti Dive
It depends really... if it's high on initial bite, such as it was at the TITC on occansion, then making the car softer is the way to go. So softer springs, lower roll centres, and softer oils... I know most of the team were running oils in the 400-450wt range, with Silver/blue springs. Jilles even went as far to run lower roll centre's all round (-0.5mm on the front, flat to the chassis on the rear). Also more expo on the steering can help to smooth out the steering response.

The big problem is that if the car was to stiff, it would start to roll, then dig in and flip.

HiH
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Old 02-28-2011, 07:27 PM   #863
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
I'm not blaming the car. The problems I've had the last two races have been entirely due to lack of setup knowledge, and not being skilled at adapting to unfamiliar situations. I really don't think the 416 would have been any different, I was just joking about the 417 being cursed. If anything would drive me from Tamiya, it would be their lack of a US team trying to figure things out on our style of tracks.

It is kind of funny that one of the biggest advancements (optimizations?) on the 417 (the motor mount) got cut in half at TITC.
I here you there dude. Were on our own it seems like dude! Guess i'm used to it any way... I was building my Xray's to the box stock set up and just learning how to drive them fast. Then came droop settings. Up and down and then camber. Tire prep was easy as tweek and heat seems to make any tire good on asphalt! Carpet was easy as we were running Sorex 28's with Jack... Its harder now as tires have changed the game I think.

Keeping it simple and making sure the car is right is over half the battle. Tire prep is a large chunk as well. Its to bad your not making it up to TZll for Carpet Nats. I feel like I've got a decent grip on the car.
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Old 02-28-2011, 07:32 PM   #864
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
I'm not blaming the car. The problems I've had the last two races have been entirely due to lack of setup knowledge, and not being skilled at adapting to unfamiliar situations. I really don't think the 416 would have been any different, I was just joking about the 417 being cursed. If anything would drive me from Tamiya, it would be their lack of a US team trying to figure things out on our style of tracks.

It is kind of funny that one of the biggest advancements (optimizations?) on the 417 (the motor mount) got cut in half at TITC.
It's all in the name of more speed. I did overhear some interesting conversations about the 417 at the TITC, some of the team not so happy over the car, and seemingly short jestation period.
The problem is, the 6 was/is such a good car, and whilst the 7 appears similar on the surface, the devil is in the details, so does require a bit of a different setup to get it working. Bare in mind they've only had it for a few months, and it's still relatively early on in the development process (after all, look how long it took HB to get the TCX working!), so I wouldn't bet against the team getting on top of it sooner rather than later!

Remeber when the 416 came out, and everyone was removing screws and chopping the rear brace to get it to flex more?

Having said that, for sure wouldn't discount a MS/X/WE version having a split mount, it's one of those things that should work everywhere...
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Old 02-28-2011, 07:52 PM   #865
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Originally Posted by Sean Williams View Post
Why are Xray people speaking on a Tamiya 417 thread?

And on top of it trying to use Tamiya parts (swaybars) to go fast! Doesn't make sense!

Syndrome - You can go buy and Xray...but you 'll be right back on the Tamiya thread trying to get speed secrets and look for Tamiya part numbers to go fast!

Good luck with your endeavors!
Sorry didn't know it was a closed forum.............even though I know Adam and his passion for his Tamiya cars and his passion to actually get some factory support. either States side or other.

Guess if your not looking at every car out there and their development of parts and just bury your head in the sand looking at only one car, you'll soon be on the outside looking in. You should maybe give Mark a scolding for trying the Awesomatic car out after that race too.
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Old 02-28-2011, 08:35 PM   #866
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Originally Posted by Sean Williams View Post
Why are Xray people speaking on a Tamiya 417 thread?

And on top of it trying to use Tamiya parts (swaybars) to go fast! Doesn't make sense!

Syndrome - You can go buy and Xray...but you 'll be right back on the Tamiya thread trying to get speed secrets and look for Tamiya part numbers to go fast!

Good luck with your endeavors!
Yea you got me...Since there are SOOOO Many fast Tamiya USA guys to come in here and try to get help from!

Just busting a buddies chops.....get your Blue thong untangled!!
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Old 02-28-2011, 08:36 PM   #867
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
If anything would drive me from Tamiya, it would be their lack of a US team trying to figure things out on our style of tracks.
+993

I don't understand that either. I live next to the Tamiya track in Aliso Viejo, CA and all I ever see any Tamiya employee driving is FF03 and M06 mini.

Even if there was a 'team' they would have to hire someone to be the expert on all facets of tuning the 417 chassis...whether that be a setup ace or someone like Fred Hubbard, Steve Weiss...Paul L...etc, that can do both setup and help out here and on the track.

Hell, the 417 doesn't even come with a tuning/setup guide like some others do.
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Old 02-28-2011, 08:53 PM   #868
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I did overhear some interesting conversations about the 417 at the TITC, some of the team not so happy over the car, and seemingly short jestation period.
If they're unhappy about it, imagine how the people who paid $520 must feel. I mean, how do you not let the 3X world champ on your staff test a car before you release it?

I'm not saying it's not a great car, the testing I did with it at home showed it to be faster and more consistent than my 416X when run on a surface I was very familiar with. Traveling, however, I've struggled. I never had these struggles with the 416 series, but maybe that's just a coincidence.

And if I struggle, I can't imagine what other people are feeling. I've done nothing but run rubber tire on carpet with Tamiya cars non-stop, year round for the past 3 years. I've tried to practice at least once a week for 6+ hours, and race once a week as well. I've had many times in there where I get a week off from work, and practice 8+ hours a day for 3-5 days in a row. I've had a LOT of track time. I understand I'm probably also fighting the limits of my own abilities, and maybe that's where my frustration is... but it sure seems like those problems became more evident when I switched to the 7.

Kody, I'm with yah bud. If I had the opportunity to make race decisions for this year all over again, nats would have been part of them for sure.
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Old 02-28-2011, 09:44 PM   #869
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Blue thongs! Are we really heading there... lol EA you know you want an optimized purple/pink man thong!
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Old 02-28-2011, 10:07 PM   #870
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Last Friday was the first chance to really get some practice on the new whip and also do some testing and tuning. Car was really good from the first pack with the identical set up I used at our Carpet Regionals two weeks before. Double gear diffs front and rear with diffs low. Car was fast but I thought it had more in it. Popped a spool in the front and at the same time went diff's high front and rear. Those changes resulted in lap times almost a half a second faster per lap! Car pulled harder coming onto the straight as well it turned in better. Strange right? lol

More testing for Nats this weekend!
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