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Old 01-21-2013, 11:32 AM   #4636
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Is anyone running the V5 in VTA? looking for a base setup for medium grip ozite carpet. Mine ran ok last weekend on its first outing but definitely needs some setup work.

Thanks!
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Old 01-21-2013, 12:59 PM   #4637
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Isn't that the point?
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Old 01-21-2013, 01:07 PM   #4638
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Isn't that the point?
I don't think so, after a couple of strokes you end up with pack at the top from the extra volume in the shock body. I've tried a bunch of different o-ring setups and I can't find one that will keep the shock consistent for a run
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Old 01-21-2013, 01:38 PM   #4639
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I don't think so, after a couple of strokes you end up with pack at the top from the extra volume in the shock body. I've tried a bunch of different o-ring setups and I can't find one that will keep the shock consistent for a run
You're building them wrong.

If anyone else out there feels conned that Mr Tamiya has sold them some AERATION shocks that are full of air, send me the bodies and caps, I'll make sure they get recycled appropriately!
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:29 PM   #4640
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At the Worlds (the only place I have seen the team running the aeration shocks), they were re-building them every run, as the air build up makes the shock solid at maximum compression and limits its travel. The team drivers certainly thought they were the ticket on smooth, asphalt surfaces, but said they will need to be re-built almost every run. But it's worth it if you're racing for a World Championship!
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:11 PM   #4641
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Just a perhaps simple thought of my side.
But can't you do with these shocks what they did with the "old" Serpent shocks they used on the early Cobra offroad cars?
Put a nipple in the shocks and connect them with some fuel line so you won't get air in them and the shock won't go solid at the end of compression??
I used tho's shocks on my Serpent Quattro on the rear side and it made the car very smooth and had grip like mad.
Easy to build,maintaine and adjust.

regards Roy
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:42 PM   #4642
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Aren't aeration shocks what AE uses on all of their cars except 1/8th scale?
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:51 PM   #4643
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At the Worlds (the only place I have seen the team running the aeration shocks), they were re-building them every run, as the air build up makes the shock solid at maximum compression and limits its travel. The team drivers certainly thought they were the ticket on smooth, asphalt surfaces, but said they will need to be re-built almost every run. But it's worth it if you're racing for a World Championship!
At the end of a day you have a shock body that has a certain volume within in when the shaft extended, and a smaller volume within it when the shaft is compressed (because the shaft is now inside the shock body not outside it).

Working on the basis that the oil is hard to compress and the air is easy to compress, you need to fill the shock with enough oil to fill the smaller volume when the shaft is in, and enough air to compensate for the larger volume when the shaft is out. You need the air!

If your shocks are hard at the top of the stroke, it has nothing to do with the air pressure building up (think about it, where exactly can all that easy-to-compress air be coming from?) - it's simply because you have too much of that hard-to-compress oil in there.

These shocks have been in off-road for years, but people still insist on building them wrong because they don't like squeaks - and then they wonder why they blow the seals.
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:37 PM   #4644
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Originally Posted by sosidge View Post
At the end of a day you have a shock body that has a certain volume within in when the shaft extended, and a smaller volume within it when the shaft is compressed (because the shaft is now inside the shock body not outside it).

Working on the basis that the oil is hard to compress and the air is easy to compress, you need to fill the shock with enough oil to fill the smaller volume when the shaft is in, and enough air to compensate for the larger volume when the shaft is out. You need the air!

If your shocks are hard at the top of the stroke, it has nothing to do with the air pressure building up (think about it, where exactly can all that easy-to-compress air be coming from?) - it's simply because you have too much of that hard-to-compress oil in there.

These shocks have been in off-road for years, but people still insist on building them wrong because they don't like squeaks - and then they wonder why they blow the seals.
Do you own the new shocks?
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Old 01-21-2013, 11:15 PM   #4645
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Do you own the new shocks?
I've used the shocks from the off-road car with the same caps many, many times.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:23 AM   #4646
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I've used the shocks from the off-road car with the same caps many, many times.
Yes me too, I have two TRF buggies and they don't suffer the problem nearly as badly as the V5 shocks appear to. As Oli mentioned, when using the TRF team's o-ring configuration the new shocks need rebuilding every run to perform properly. From what Jay said it sounds like you can have some luck with the kit o-rings but I think they create too much stiction.

For now the shocks that won the other 4 WC's are good enough for me
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:12 AM   #4647
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I think, therein lies the problem. At the worlds the guys build the car to get the Maximum for each run.. So they can reduce friction as much as possible to give them the best possible chance of achieving 100% performance from the car. As long as it lasts 5 minutes thats ok.

At club level build the shocks how they are meant to be made, giving the best compromise of performance and reliability.

The TRF O-Rings are nice, I used them once for a shock rebuild, but they did leak a little. So I replaced them with the std ones and now I have shocks that are bullet proof and lap times that are no worse. I'm not a world champion, although I am pretty handy at club level.

I'm lucky enough to have a V5 on the way, so will give it a go with the stock settings and see how they behave. I hope they are as reliable as the ones on my 501x. Although I have a spare set of classic TRF dampers ready to pop on as well.

All cool stuff, its good to have something new to use on the cars and see how we can all help each other to get the best out of them.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:34 AM   #4648
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Originally Posted by jonest View Post
wonder whether they cut the rear part as well, as pic was blocked by the deans plug.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigM View Post
Yes me too, I have two TRF buggies and they don't suffer the problem nearly as badly as the V5 shocks appear to. As Oli mentioned, when using the TRF team's o-ring configuration the new shocks need rebuilding every run to perform properly. From what Jay said it sounds like you can have some luck with the kit o-rings but I think they create too much stiction.

For now the shocks that won the other 4 WC's are good enough for me

On my V5 I'm using the stock kit O-rings and not having any excessive air issues. Infact they are much lower Maintenance than any of my other 3 sets of TRF bladder shocks ironically.
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:15 AM   #4649
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Is anyone running the V5 in VTA? looking for a base setup for medium grip ozite carpet. Mine ran ok last weekend on its first outing but definitely needs some setup work.

Thanks!
I have not run it in VTA yet but in sedan I'm running much softer than stock for bumpy low to med grip carpet. Think yellow front and red rear springs with 3mm camber link spacers for more camber gain and a short rear camber link. I run -1.5 front and -2 rear camber however this is with sedan tires.

With VTA tires they do not need so much camber to work as the outer sidewall is supported extremely well by the unique design of the VTA wheel. So I would just leave the camber link spacers alone and just try softer springs to get the D compound VTA tires to stick. On my VTA car (CEFEX EVO w/417 suspension) I run AE 40w front, 35w rear oil in Tamiya bladder shocks (zero to neg rebound) with yellow springs both front and rear and the car is suck like glue. Camber is -1/2 front and -1 rear with long parallel camber links and I get very even tire wear.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:24 AM   #4650
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I've run the V5 the past 4 Friday night club races. After reading on here that people are having issues with the new shock, I decided to give them a good inspection. I built them to spec according to the manual. I have never rebuilt them. I took the springs off and removed each shock from the chassis. All 4 still had 100% NEGATIVE rebound. Meaning all 4 still pulled the shaft back into the shock after decompression. I believe that is the goal of these shocks. I have not noticed any leakage either.

I can tell you this car handles like a dream on low-medium grip carpet. Using the stock setup, I have reduced lap times by almost a full half second compared to my original 417. This past Friday I laid down the rear shocks 2 holes from the stock setup, and it was nearly perfect. That is all that I have changed from stock.
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