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Old 12-25-2010, 08:36 AM   #406
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Since Im looking at touring cars the 416x caught my eye, because
It's older and uses Nimh cells. This one is more advanced for Lipo use.
Have you felt a difference between the 2 cars?

Im expecting the 416 to drop in price since the new one is out.
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Old 12-25-2010, 08:42 AM   #407
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there should be a few 416X for sale, I Just build 417 and its nice, but you can get the lipo chassie for the 416 also, so if want to save money get the
416 if not just get the 417
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Old 12-25-2010, 04:15 PM   #408
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Ah, just built this car (thanks, Speedtech!) It's my first TRF car other than the 201. It's super nice!

Just had a couple of questions for you guys.

Anyone have any good tips for cutting down the ball cups for the roll bars? When I just cut down with a knife, they always come out crooked and fugly (on my TA05 too) Also, the manual doesn't say...how long do you make the roll bar turnbuckles? Does it matter that much?

When screwing the steering bridge (BB20) to the steering arms (BB21) it binds up unless I leave them loose (too loose for my liking). Any tips on this?

Thanks guys!
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Old 12-25-2010, 04:21 PM   #409
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Originally Posted by Morbo View Post
Ah, just built this car (thanks, Speedtech!) It's my first TRF car other than the 201. It's super nice!

Just had a couple of questions for you guys.

Anyone have any good tips for cutting down the ball cups for the roll bars? When I just cut down with a knife, they always come out crooked and fugly (on my TA05 too) Also, the manual doesn't say...how long do you make the roll bar turnbuckles? Does it matter that much?

When screwing the steering bridge (BB20) to the steering arms (BB21) it binds up unless I leave them loose (too loose for my liking). Any tips on this?

Thanks guys!
For cutting the turnbuckles, nothing beats a fresh new razor. That's key.

Yes, height matters for the sway bar links. After build and setting ride height, you want them to be holding the sway bar level.

If the steering bridge is binding, you didn't use enough shims. Look at the manual again... You use 2 different shims, and multiple of each.

Hope that helps.
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Old 12-25-2010, 06:00 PM   #410
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I'm picking up one of these bad boys this week and was wondering what building or setup suggestions you guys might have. Looking for a carpet setup and running on APS-28r by Panorama.


Cheers.

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Old 12-25-2010, 07:44 PM   #411
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Originally Posted by Morbo View Post

When screwing the steering bridge (BB20) to the steering arms (BB21) it binds up unless I leave them loose (too loose for my liking). Any tips on this?

Thanks guys!
had a similar problem... ended up using flat head screws instead of the round head ones...
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Old 12-25-2010, 09:02 PM   #412
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Originally Posted by Qatmix View Post
Well it looks like I don't need to ponder it anymore, the wife and kiddies surprised mr today with a 417
You lucky lucky man! Any woman I've ever been involved with can never understand this obsession with toy cars, let alone going and buying one for me..!!
Enjoy the build, mine should be here next week
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Old 12-25-2010, 09:15 PM   #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Furman View Post
For cutting the turnbuckles, nothing beats a fresh new razor. That's key.

Yes, height matters for the sway bar links. After build and setting ride height, you want them to be holding the sway bar level.

If the steering bridge is binding, you didn't use enough shims. Look at the manual again... You use 2 different shims, and multiple of each.

Hope that helps.
Agree on the sway bar point, although after it's on the car, you want to test that it's not tweaked, so you can adjust the turnbuckles to resolve this. It gets a little complicated, as you want to make sure your droop is set correctly first, but David Jun had some good advice on this topic...
http://www.thard.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=405

So tweaking the little turnbuckles can remove any tweak from the bar.

On a side note, I'm (slowly) trying to update my site to add in new bits for the 417... I've made it a little more generic (so each of the past TRF's has it's own sub-sections). Feel free to add things in as people learn the car

Oh and regarding setup's, I got the following from Elliott;
I think kit setup will be good yeah, but we use 4mm rear wheelbase shim, 450 shock oil and if the traction is not super high, 4.5 front camber link shim and 3.5 rear.
Generally on Carpet I prefer to use the ball diff with the Gear diff on Asphalt


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Old 12-25-2010, 09:37 PM   #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Furman View Post
For cutting the turnbuckles, nothing beats a fresh new razor. That's key.

Yes, height matters for the sway bar links. After build and setting ride height, you want them to be holding the sway bar level.

If the steering bridge is binding, you didn't use enough shims. Look at the manual again... You use 2 different shims, and multiple of each.

Hope that helps.
Thanks for the advice! As it turns out, like a moron, I had the steering bridge upside down...DOH!
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Old 12-25-2010, 09:46 PM   #415
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Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
Agree on the sway bar point, although after it's on the car, you want to test that it's not tweaked, so you can adjust the turnbuckles to resolve this. It gets a little complicated, as you want to make sure your droop is set correctly first, but David Jun had some good advice on this topic...
http://www.thard.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=405

So tweaking the little turnbuckles can remove any tweak from the bar.

HiH
Ed
Thanks Ed! I gots lots to learn on this subject!

"To set them, slowly compress either arm as you watch the other to see the amount of free play before the opposite arm rises. More than likely, one side will have more free play than the other so you want to adjust the length of the linkage rods accordingly until the amount of free play is equal. You can also adjust the free play on the sway bar mounts as well by rotating the sway bar clips enough to reduce slop."

Not sure I full understand how this part works. How do you measure accurately the "free play?" And so if one side has more free play than the other, what do you do to the turnbuckles? Finally, "rotating the sway bar clips?" Whazzat?
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Old 12-25-2010, 11:02 PM   #416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morbo View Post
Thanks Ed! I gots lots to learn on this subject!

"To set them, slowly compress either arm as you watch the other to see the amount of free play before the opposite arm rises. More than likely, one side will have more free play than the other so you want to adjust the length of the linkage rods accordingly until the amount of free play is equal. You can also adjust the free play on the sway bar mounts as well by rotating the sway bar clips enough to reduce slop."

Not sure I full understand how this part works. How do you measure accurately the "free play?" And so if one side has more free play than the other, what do you do to the turnbuckles? Finally, "rotating the sway bar clips?" Whazzat?
Hehe, it's easier to do than to write about

What I do is as follows;
Firstly, make the roll bar links all the same length.
Then mount up the bars, and using the grub screws in the mounts, and the adjustment collars, take up as much of the free play so that the bar can move freely in the mounts, but is not tight. Just got to use your best judgement here (wiggle it lots )
Pop the links onto the arms, and with the shocks off set the droop on the arms using a droop gauge (I know that 5F and 4R on a gauge is a pretty good place to start).
Then using the droop gauge, push one of the arms up until the opposite arm starts to raise. Easy way to spot this is by "tapping" the opposite arm, if you can tap the arm down onto the droop screw, then it's lifted
Note the number on the gauge that the arm raised at, and repeat for the opposite side, and note the number. (For example, on my 416x in front of me, with droop set to 4, the arms start "tapping" at 7 on the gauge)

Now, if it's different side to side, you need to lengthen or shorten one of the links. If the right side raises on a lower number, then you need to either shorten the right hand link, or lengthen the left (and Vice-versa obviously!).

Just take your time with it when you first do it, and have a play to see how only a small adjustment can make a difference, as usually it only needs a small amount on the turnbuckle to work. If you find you need a lot, the bar itself may not be flat, so take it out the car and (gently) try to bend it flat, then repeat

HiH
Ed
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Old 12-25-2010, 11:15 PM   #417
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Hopefully the following picture helps... right arm at this point has started to raise (note 8 on the gauge).
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Tamiya TRF417-sway-bar-setup.jpg  
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Old 12-26-2010, 08:56 AM   #418
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I finally got a chance to start my build this morning. There are some really nice refinements to this kit. The changes to the bulkheads and the center pulley are just great.
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Old 12-26-2010, 09:57 AM   #419
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Those who have driven and tested the 417, can you guys confirm that it has same turning radius left and right? I had this problem which I could not get rid off when I had my 416WE and 416X. Both of 'em will make a tighter left turn than the right. Yes I have checked the chassis tweak, suspension tweak, stabilizers and weight balance for dozens of times, I also set the steering throw equally on my Hudy station (28degs full lock) and set the servo saver arm (90degs) perpendicular to the steering tie rod. Non of 'em solve the problem. I m not the only one with this issue, all of my friends who drive 416we-x also have the same issue. Last carpet meet with high traction, the car would traction roll only to the left corners. I m hopping the 417 do not have this issue.
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Old 12-26-2010, 11:37 AM   #420
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As far as I know, it is quite normal for a car to not turn the same amount to both sides. You just adjust out the difference with EPA (lower EPA to the side that turns more).
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