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Old 10-28-2012, 11:36 AM   #4141
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For the last few weeks I've been struggling with my 417X. We've switched over to a new control tyre and everyone else seems to be getting on well with them. After some weeks of tuning I have the car almost handling sweetly with just a bit of over rotation on exit. The issue I have is the car still feels like it's floating on top of the carpet instead of digging in, I don't feel confident with the car and sometimes I'm doing a lot of work with steering and throttle to keep it on line.

So I was wondering what you guys do to get the car to dig in and feel confident and consistent on carpet?

I've attached a set up sheet and left the shocks as TRF with #450 in but actually I've started using the AME TSHOX which has helped make the car feel smoother but still not dig in. Is anyone else using the TSHOX and do they have a set up for carpet for them?

Also from this set up sheet I have tried Tamiya springs white/blue, these just took away a little steering but no help and a slower lap time. 1k diff oil made the car too under steer and I had full lock in the sweeper. Shorter wheelbase made the car nervous. Standing shocks up made the car feel like it had less grip.

TIA!
i would try 1D rear suspension to get more steering and anti dive in the front, maybe 1mm suspension mount spacer
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Old 10-29-2012, 08:54 AM   #4142
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Thanks for suggestions, never tried that much anti dive before, normally just 0.5mm. I have tried a 1D rear block, it makes the car squirm out of a corner and lose speed unless I am very careful. Might give it another go though, used to run it like that with the previous control tyre.

Perhaps I can ask just in general what do you guys do when on a carpet track and you want the car to dig in more or you want to find more bite?
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Old 10-29-2012, 09:36 AM   #4143
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Thanks for suggestions, never tried that much anti dive before, normally just 0.5mm. I have tried a 1D rear block, it makes the car squirm out of a corner and lose speed unless I am very careful. Might give it another go though, used to run it like that with the previous control tyre.

Perhaps I can ask just in general what do you guys do when on a carpet track and you want the car to dig in more or you want to find more bite?
Why are you using battery forward? Also, and maybe I saw it incorrectly, it looked to me you used pro dive instead of anti-dive.
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Old 10-29-2012, 10:40 AM   #4144
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I like the battery forwards because it stops the back end of the car swinging out in the sweepers. I find it also makes the car a bit easier to drive for me on carpet. I have experimented with the battery in forwards and backwards positions as well as somewhere in between and I always seem to like it up front.

I run no spacers under the front/front suspension mount and 0.5mm under the front/rear mount. Am I correct in thinking this is anti dive?
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Old 10-29-2012, 11:22 AM   #4145
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If I get Spec-R blades, is it 3mm I need? Or 3.5mm?
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:08 PM   #4146
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I like the battery forwards because it stops the back end of the car swinging out in the sweepers. I find it also makes the car a bit easier to drive for me on carpet. I have experimented with the battery in forwards and backwards positions as well as somewhere in between and I always seem to like it up front.

I run no spacers under the front/front suspension mount and 0.5mm under the front/rear mount. Am I correct in thinking this is anti dive?
Battery forward moves the weight upfront and takes steering away, making the car easier to drive/more lazy. I'm not entirely sure what you mean with not digging in the carpet, but a lazy car pushes and does not dig.

Yes you are right on the anti-dive part. I misread your setup sheet.

edit: have you tried 0.5mm shim behind your front A arms, instead of the 1.5mm? Also you dampers are really flat, also resulting in a lazy car. Your car really seems setup to be easy to drive, but not necessarily fast.
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:38 PM   #4147
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Yeah that sounds about right! I'm far from being a pro driver and very unlikely I ever will be. So for me having a car that is completely stable, easy to drive and can be thrown into the corners is number 1, then comes making that set up as fast as I can but so I can still drive it.

What I mean is the set up generally lacks grip and side bite. It feels like its floating on top of the carpet rather than biting into it. So how the car was before the tyre changes was that it followed every movement of my hand and felt direct but I had to do silly things like slam the steering on in a sweeper to get it to go out of shape. It gave a lot of confidence.

Right now I can almost see in the sweeper that the front tyres are struggling for side bite even with the shocks laid right down and the car feels neither direct or planted.

Thinking further on my problem that this has come from breaking my original X chassis (2.25mm) and replacing it with the thicker X (2.5mm) and then being ill and missing far too much racing. So I'm thinking I'll probably have more success with a thinner more flexible chassis again. I know this isn't the recommended way to go on carpet but I do remember at some times having too much grip or bite with the original X chassis. So I'll prob get the new decks when they come out and maybe then I'll be happy with my car again.

Thanks very much for the responses so far, nice feeling there is someone there to help, a feeling I miss at the track as the only TRF driver there these days =/
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:57 PM   #4148
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wishbone shock positions
3 1 4 2 how do you tell the difference
i guess you turn the wishbone around
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Old 10-29-2012, 02:01 PM   #4149
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Originally Posted by Quantra View Post
Yeah that sounds about right! I'm far from being a pro driver and very unlikely I ever will be. So for me having a car that is completely stable, easy to drive and can be thrown into the corners is number 1, then comes making that set up as fast as I can but so I can still drive it.

What I mean is the set up generally lacks grip and side bite. It feels like its floating on top of the carpet rather than biting into it. So how the car was before the tyre changes was that it followed every movement of my hand and felt direct but I had to do silly things like slam the steering on in a sweeper to get it to go out of shape. It gave a lot of confidence.

Right now I can almost see in the sweeper that the front tyres are struggling for side bite even with the shocks laid right down and the car feels neither direct or planted.

Thinking further on my problem that this has come from breaking my original X chassis (2.25mm) and replacing it with the thicker X (2.5mm) and then being ill and missing far too much racing. So I'm thinking I'll probably have more success with a thinner more flexible chassis again. I know this isn't the recommended way to go on carpet but I do remember at some times having too much grip or bite with the original X chassis. So I'll prob get the new decks when they come out and maybe then I'll be happy with my car again.

Thanks very much for the responses so far, nice feeling there is someone there to help, a feeling I miss at the track as the only TRF driver there these days =/
It sounds like you are just lacking grip. The 2.5 chassis should be OK, it takes away a bit of grip but not a huge amount. With your shocks being so leaned in you will have very little forward bite, so that would explain why you can't run the D block on the rear safely. Stand them up to 3,3 and tune the rest of the setup before changing them again. For more mechanical grip, drop your camber links by 1mm on the inside, so 3.5mm F and 3mm R on the inner bulkheads. This will give you a lot more bite. The rest of your setup looks ok as a starting point.

Also if you're only struggling since changing tyre it sounds like your prep may be wrong, so I'd experiment with a few different additives.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:53 PM   #4150
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did anyone try raising the motor mount 1mm? Does it really add more side bite?
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Old 10-29-2012, 08:17 PM   #4151
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did anyone try raising the motor mount 1mm? Does it really add more side bite?
In Off-road 2wd buggy raising your transmission will raise up your CG and this gives you more side bite however the effect of this in TC is a lot different you will loose corner speed cause the car will lean a lot more causing the chassis to scrub... Remember in TC we are running a very low ride hide compared to off-road...
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:34 AM   #4152
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Thanks CraigM, I'll give it a go!
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Old 10-30-2012, 07:06 AM   #4153
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I know some of u have been asking about the cso chassic, i have tried it at our indoor carpet track. It has alot of crip i most say, but it changed it back to the org tamiya x deck and I was more consistent.
I didn't feel the changes i made to the car with CSO chassic, changed the handling of the car that much, maybe the CF look a like is just to soft for carpet.

Sadly my pace is way off indoors, maybe more pratice will help with this.

Still look for a good carpet starting point for a okayish driver.
we drive 28 sorex this season.

Thanks all

Last edited by Cp Grafix; 10-30-2012 at 07:08 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 10-30-2012, 07:32 AM   #4154
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I know some of u have been asking about the cso chassic, i have tried it at our indoor carpet track. It has alot of crip i most say, but it changed it back to the org tamiya x deck and I was more consistent.
I didn't feel the changes i made to the car with CSO chassic, changed the handling of the car that much, maybe the CF look a like is just to soft for carpet.

Sadly my pace is way off indoors, maybe more pratice will help with this.

Still look for a good carpet starting point for a okayish driver.
we drive 28 sorex this season.

Thanks all
It's soft because it's not CF. It's a fiberglass sandwich. Look carefully and you will see.
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Old 10-30-2012, 07:35 AM   #4155
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It's soft because it's not CF. It's a fiberglass sandwich. Look carefully and you will see.
I knew its wasn't CF, thats why typed look alike, but I didn't know it was glass fiber. Thanks for the info
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