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Old 07-11-2012, 10:00 PM   #3466
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Originally Posted by Cpt.America View Post
I don't want to argue with you, im just stating the facts as i know them, about how the physics behind roll center work. You are free to do what works for you!

If you would like more information on how roll center works, here is a great read.

http://users.telenet.be/elvo/

Both Elvo and the Hudy/Xray setup guide will tell you the same thing I have. And yes, I have tried it 100 ways back and forth in both offroad and onroad and the physics stated in both places can be easily seen in practical application.
I don't want to argue either

You're correct about the roll centre theory, but if you put the tamiya (or any other touring car) geometry into a roll centre calculator you'll see how little change the camber link shims have on the RC compared to the lower arm shims.

I'll take some photos of my car on the setup station to show the difference in camber change between link heights.
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:23 PM   #3467
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Originally Posted by inpuressa View Post
the kyosho does a good job at stopping leaks. But they also hold tighter on to the outdrives so you can't use the same diff oil.
On the tamiya oring, the ring itself spins in the housing. but the kyosho makes it so the outdrive spins inside the ring.
Yea your right, but judging by my diff its only very very slight, maybe 100-200cst heavier feeling. Id rather a non leaking consistant diff
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:40 PM   #3468
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ordering some spares and the part number from the manual for the ball connector (5mmx 9mm) that goes through the front c hub is 19804543, having problem finding it, will the 54075 Flourine coated king pin set from TB03 fit?
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:13 AM   #3469
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ordering some spares and the part number from the manual for the ball connector (5mmx 9mm) that goes through the front c hub is 19804543, having problem finding it, will the 54075 Flourine coated king pin set from TB03 fit?
Yep that will fit (Its the same as the one used in the TRF417 kit)
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:33 AM   #3470
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Thanks :-)
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Old 07-12-2012, 03:14 AM   #3471
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Originally Posted by mingnon View Post
ordering some spares and the part number from the manual for the ball connector (5mmx 9mm) that goes through the front c hub is 19804543, having problem finding it, will the 54075 Flourine coated king pin set from TB03 fit?
It will fit but it's 1mm higher than the kit one. Drop the 1 and try searching for 9804543, this seems to be how they do the 19x parts. Sometimes they also have 5#### numbers too, I don't really understand it
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Old 07-12-2012, 03:17 AM   #3472
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Originally Posted by inpuressa View Post
If you look at Satoshi's setting, he's using quite a bit spacers for the inner camber link. This is to allow for more grip for an outdoor/control tire track condition. Backs up your explanation.
I tried this too, and upping the shims made the car feel a little lazy, but had more roll capacity = more grip.
http://kentech.blogs.se/2012/03/27/t...tyle-13319769/
TITC was the highest grip I've ever raced on! Viktor and Marc both traction rolled into the bushes coming onto the straight in qualifying! Check out the teams' Gran Canaria setups, they are for low grip - 3mm camber links!
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Old 07-12-2012, 03:30 AM   #3473
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Originally Posted by tmomedrano View Post
i guess some people think of more steering when it turns fast on entry while some think of it when in the middle of the turn... based on experience (probably relatively shorter than most here) more shims less aggressive turn-in but more grip on that side in the middle of the corner and the opposite for less shims. for me camber link shims affect the balance of the car in the middle of the corner which can also translate to more aggressive turn-in (must balance the shim height between front and rear at most 1mm-1.5 difference). but i feel that the change is more apparent in the middle than entry and then magnified on sweepers.
Good point about the split between front and rear link heights, the split between them affects the balance and the height affects the level of mechanical grip. It's not clear what end of the car you are talking about though?

When I used to run xray, Hagberg told me a higher inboard front link will give more initial steering, and a lower link will give more mid corner. I've mostly found this true, because if you go too low on the front link you get taily mid corner, especially in sweepers as you say. It's a balancing act though because too high and you get big initial steer and then slide causing double steer.
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:06 PM   #3474
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No worries, if you are running the kit wheelbase spacers then it will bind unless you sand the arms. If they are free then it's most likely the uprights which also sometimes need sanding, and if you have them right then it's one of the ball cups - either camber link or sway bars mounts. In about 4 years running tamiya I've only had one dodgy ball cup, so I'd focus on the arms and uprights.

So are you from NZ? I saw a cool track in Auckland which had a big race in Jan, I'd like to cross the ditch to race some time
Yea had a run out there last weekend, it's right next to the North Harbour rugby stadium. Be good to see more tamiya guys at that event. Lots of Xrays
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Old 07-12-2012, 06:06 PM   #3475
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Just to confirm, there isn't a complete ball diff set available for the 417x right? You have to buy diff 51446, balls 42142, and pulley 53988.

Thank you.
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:48 PM   #3476
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There's a new limited edition kit on the way. Doesn't look all that different to the X though... http://www.tamiya.com/japan/products...417x/index.htm
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Old 07-13-2012, 12:28 AM   #3477
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Looks like the only difference are the stickers over a std 417x kit?
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Old 07-13-2012, 05:35 AM   #3478
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Originally Posted by Qatmix View Post
Looks like the only difference are the stickers over a std 417x kit?
Good quality stickers are worth 2-3 tenths a lap.
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Old 07-13-2012, 06:56 AM   #3479
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Different shock towers, double diffs, more than just some stickers..
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Old 07-13-2012, 06:56 AM   #3480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qatmix View Post
Looks like the only difference are the stickers over a std 417x kit?
Google translate:

While inheriting the basic layout of the TRF417 excellent traction [improve the performance at low speed pursuit of flexibility, we aimed to improve the traction performance in the low-speed range by changing the shape of the Rowadekki. また、足まわりは3.5mm厚のカーボンダンパーステーを採用し、ダンパー取り付け穴を連結式の長穴にする ことでいっそう繊細なセッティングに対応。 In addition, the suspension is compatible with more delicate setting that uses a carbon damper stay of thickness 3.5mm, hole length of the formula to concatenate the damper mounting hole. バッテリーマウントはウエイトをかねる金属製とし、キングピンは新たにショートネックタイプを 使用。 Battery mount is metal and also serve as a weight, use a short neck kingpin is a new type. モーター取り付け穴の変更によりギヤ比選択の幅を広げました。 Has extended the width of the selected gear ratio by changing the motor mounting holes. さらに、この優勝記念シャーシキットでは、オイル封入式のギヤデフを前後に装備することもでき、セッティン グの幅を広げました。 In addition, the chassis kit commemorate this victory, can also be equipped with front and back-filled Giyadefu of oil, was to increase the width of the setting. また、ミラー文字のエッジをブルーにしたTRFステッカーに加え、V.ウィルク選手がReed y Raceで走行した時のセッティングシートもセットしたお得なスペシャルキットとなっています。 Moreover, it has become a special kit deals stickers were added to the TRF to mirror the blue edge of the character, was also set when the player setting sheet V. Wilk was traveling at Reedy Race.
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