4LikesTamiya TRF417
07-11-2012, 10:00 PM
#3466
I don't want to argue with you, im just stating the facts as i know them, about how the physics behind roll center work. You are free to do what works for you! 
If you would like more information on how roll center works, here is a great read.
http://users.telenet.be/elvo/
Both Elvo and the Hudy/Xray setup guide will tell you the same thing I have. And yes, I have tried it 100 ways back and forth in both offroad and onroad and the physics stated in both places can be easily seen in practical application.
If you would like more information on how roll center works, here is a great read.
http://users.telenet.be/elvo/
Both Elvo and the Hudy/Xray setup guide will tell you the same thing I have. And yes, I have tried it 100 ways back and forth in both offroad and onroad and the physics stated in both places can be easily seen in practical application.
You're correct about the roll centre theory, but if you put the tamiya (or any other touring car) geometry into a roll centre calculator you'll see how little change the camber link shims have on the RC compared to the lower arm shims.
I'll take some photos of my car on the setup station to show the difference in camber change between link heights.
07-12-2012, 01:13 AM
#3469
Tech Master
Yep that will fit (Its the same as the one used in the TRF417 kit)
07-12-2012, 03:17 AM
#3472
If you look at Satoshi's setting, he's using quite a bit spacers for the inner camber link. This is to allow for more grip for an outdoor/control tire track condition. Backs up your explanation.
I tried this too, and upping the shims made the car feel a little lazy, but had more roll capacity = more grip.
http://kentech.blogs.se/2012/03/27/t...tyle-13319769/
I tried this too, and upping the shims made the car feel a little lazy, but had more roll capacity = more grip.
http://kentech.blogs.se/2012/03/27/t...tyle-13319769/
07-12-2012, 03:30 AM
#3473
i guess some people think of more steering when it turns fast on entry while some think of it when in the middle of the turn... based on experience (probably relatively shorter than most here) more shims less aggressive turn-in but more grip on that side in the middle of the corner and the opposite for less shims. for me camber link shims affect the balance of the car in the middle of the corner which can also translate to more aggressive turn-in (must balance the shim height between front and rear at most 1mm-1.5 difference). but i feel that the change is more apparent in the middle than entry and then magnified on sweepers.
When I used to run xray, Hagberg told me a higher inboard front link will give more initial steering, and a lower link will give more mid corner. I've mostly found this true, because if you go too low on the front link you get taily mid corner, especially in sweepers as you say. It's a balancing act though because too high and you get big initial steer and then slide causing double steer.
07-12-2012, 01:06 PM
#3474
No worries, if you are running the kit wheelbase spacers then it will bind unless you sand the arms. If they are free then it's most likely the uprights which also sometimes need sanding, and if you have them right then it's one of the ball cups - either camber link or sway bars mounts. In about 4 years running tamiya I've only had one dodgy ball cup, so I'd focus on the arms and uprights.
So are you from NZ? I saw a cool track in Auckland which had a big race in Jan, I'd like to cross the ditch to race some time
So are you from NZ? I saw a cool track in Auckland which had a big race in Jan, I'd like to cross the ditch to race some time
07-12-2012, 10:48 PM
#3476
There's a new limited edition kit on the way. Doesn't look all that different to the X though... http://www.tamiya.com/japan/products...417x/index.htm
07-13-2012, 12:28 AM
#3477
Tech Master
Looks like the only difference are the stickers over a std 417x kit?
07-13-2012, 06:56 AM
#3479
Different shock towers, double diffs, more than just some stickers..
07-13-2012, 06:56 AM
#3480
Google translate:
While inheriting the basic layout of the TRF417 excellent traction [improve the performance at low speed pursuit of flexibility, we aimed to improve the traction performance in the low-speed range by changing the shape of the Rowadekki. また、足まわりは3.5mm厚のカーボンダンパーステーを採用し、ダンパー取り付け穴を連結式の長穴にする ことでいっそう繊細なセッティングに対応。 In addition, the suspension is compatible with more delicate setting that uses a carbon damper stay of thickness 3.5mm, hole length of the formula to concatenate the damper mounting hole. バッテリーマウントはウエイトをかねる金属製とし、キングピンは新たにショートネックタイプを 使用。 Battery mount is metal and also serve as a weight, use a short neck kingpin is a new type. モーター取り付け穴の変更によりギヤ比選択の幅を広げました。 Has extended the width of the selected gear ratio by changing the motor mounting holes. さらに、この優勝記念シャーシキットでは、オイル封入式のギヤデフを前後に装備することもでき、セッティン グの幅を広げました。 In addition, the chassis kit commemorate this victory, can also be equipped with front and back-filled Giyadefu of oil, was to increase the width of the setting. また、ミラー文字のエッジをブルーにしたTRFステッカーに加え、V.ウィルク選手がReed y Raceで走行した時のセッティングシートもセットしたお得なスペシャルキットとなっています。 Moreover, it has become a special kit deals stickers were added to the TRF to mirror the blue edge of the character, was also set when the player setting sheet V. Wilk was traveling at Reedy Race.
While inheriting the basic layout of the TRF417 excellent traction [improve the performance at low speed pursuit of flexibility, we aimed to improve the traction performance in the low-speed range by changing the shape of the Rowadekki. また、足まわりは3.5mm厚のカーボンダンパーステーを採用し、ダンパー取り付け穴を連結式の長穴にする ことでいっそう繊細なセッティングに対応。 In addition, the suspension is compatible with more delicate setting that uses a carbon damper stay of thickness 3.5mm, hole length of the formula to concatenate the damper mounting hole. バッテリーマウントはウエイトをかねる金属製とし、キングピンは新たにショートネックタイプを 使用。 Battery mount is metal and also serve as a weight, use a short neck kingpin is a new type. モーター取り付け穴の変更によりギヤ比選択の幅を広げました。 Has extended the width of the selected gear ratio by changing the motor mounting holes. さらに、この優勝記念シャーシキットでは、オイル封入式のギヤデフを前後に装備することもでき、セッティン グの幅を広げました。 In addition, the chassis kit commemorate this victory, can also be equipped with front and back-filled Giyadefu of oil, was to increase the width of the setting. また、ミラー文字のエッジをブルーにしたTRFステッカーに加え、V.ウィルク選手がReed y Raceで走行した時のセッティングシートもセットしたお得なスペシャルキットとなっています。 Moreover, it has become a special kit deals stickers were added to the TRF to mirror the blue edge of the character, was also set when the player setting sheet V. Wilk was traveling at Reedy Race.