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Old 11-02-2011, 12:53 AM   #2161
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What class are you running?
The supplied oil is 900.

regards Roy

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Originally Posted by Da4head View Post
I just started running the 417 on low to med bite carpet with box setup and have noticed that the car would kick out on hard accelleration out of corner. I am suspecting maybe its due to the rear gear diff. Is there rule on what CST oils should be used and does anyone know what the kit diff oil viscosity.
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:24 AM   #2162
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Default Set up help

i have been struggling a bit with my 417 to get it to drive nice out of the corner. i am having trouble with it being loose on exit under power.

i have been running a 416 with a smokem fx chassis and have that dialed and can drive it easy and never have any issues.

i am having this frustration with my 417.

one of the mod guys at my track drove it and him having alot more experience and smoothness could drive it nice, but could get it to be loose if he drove it hard.

me not having that experience yet struggle with the rear grip until i can learn to be a bit more smoother. but saying that , my same driving style with my 416 doesnt have the rear grip issues.

i am attaching my current setup for review and would love to hear from you guys about how to plant the rear more on exit under power.

running a 21.5 blinky class on ashphalt, medium grip track

thanks for anybody that will help with some ideas



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...ct2011001.jpg/
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:28 AM   #2163
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Originally Posted by mhavlena View Post
Also, what are the drawbacks to using normal CVD's as opposed to the DCJ's that everyone is talking about?
Try to take a look on the last couple of pages in this thread. I had a huge problem with the normal CVD's and there is even a couple of videos displaying the problem. Switching to Litemodz CVS eliminated the problem!
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:59 AM   #2164
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Originally Posted by chrisk View Post
i have been struggling a bit with my 417 to get it to drive nice out of the corner. i am having trouble with it being loose on exit under power.

i have been running a 416 with a smokem fx chassis and have that dialed and can drive it easy and never have any issues.

i am having this frustration with my 417.

one of the mod guys at my track drove it and him having alot more experience and smoothness could drive it nice, but could get it to be loose if he drove it hard.

me not having that experience yet struggle with the rear grip until i can learn to be a bit more smoother. but saying that , my same driving style with my 416 doesnt have the rear grip issues.

i am attaching my current setup for review and would love to hear from you guys about how to plant the rear more on exit under power.

running a 21.5 blinky class on ashphalt, medium grip track

thanks for anybody that will help with some ideas



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...ct2011001.jpg/
Switch to lighter oil because your air temperature is too cold. Use Muchmore #250 (equivalent to AE #40) instead for both front and rear.

Run both front and rear upper links at the inner most hole instead of the middle hole so you get more roll for medium grip track.

Use Muchmore 28 instead, again because of colder weather.

Front suspension mounts use 1C-1C and rear 1XA-1E for more grip. You have 0.5 front arm sweep for more mid-corner traction and 2.5 for rear toe, which is a bit less stable than the factory standard 3.0.

Ground clearance front 5 and rear 5.5 instead, this will have a bit less caster so your car is more stable out of the corner. You' also increase corner entry steering a bit.
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:01 AM   #2165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisk View Post
i have been struggling a bit with my 417 to get it to drive nice out of the corner. i am having trouble with it being loose on exit under power.

i have been running a 416 with a smokem fx chassis and have that dialed and can drive it easy and never have any issues.

i am having this frustration with my 417.

one of the mod guys at my track drove it and him having alot more experience and smoothness could drive it nice, but could get it to be loose if he drove it hard.

me not having that experience yet struggle with the rear grip until i can learn to be a bit more smoother. but saying that , my same driving style with my 416 doesnt have the rear grip issues.

i am attaching my current setup for review and would love to hear from you guys about how to plant the rear more on exit under power.

running a 21.5 blinky class on ashphalt, medium grip track

thanks for anybody that will help with some ideas



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...ct2011001.jpg/
Switch to lighter oil because your air temperature is too cold. Use Muchmore #250 (equivalent to AE #40) instead for both front and rear. Also, take out the TRF blue O-ring on top of the shock bladder. Rebuild your shocks to have rebound no more than 3mm.

Run both front and rear upper links at the inner most hole instead of the middle hole so you get more roll for medium grip track.

Use Muchmore 28 instead, again because of colder weather.

Front suspension mounts use 1C-1C and rear 1XA-1E for more grip. You have 0.5 front arm sweep for more mid-corner traction and 2.5 for rear toe, which is a bit less stable than the factory standard 3.0.

Ground clearance front 5 and rear 5.5 instead, this will have a bit less caster so your car is more stable out of the corner. You' also increase corner entry steering a bit.
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:39 AM   #2166
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Originally Posted by defcone View Post
I've been running mine for over 3months now and still haven't broke them yet. I have taken out the grub screws and covered the hole with heatshrink.



They look exactly like the Roche dcj's that are coming out:


(Taken from Max Ma's facebook page)
looks tough er..
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Old 11-02-2011, 10:55 AM   #2167
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Originally Posted by Pro10noob View Post
What class are you running?
The supplied oil is 900.

regards Roy
I am running 17.5 blinky class. I was going to try 2K to see if this has relation to the problem. Any other suggestions I could explore?
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Old 11-02-2011, 11:26 AM   #2168
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Originally Posted by Da4head View Post
I am running 17.5 blinky class. I was going to try 2K to see if this has relation to the problem. Any other suggestions I could explore?
Typically the slower the motor the thinner the oil, but if the car is loose then I would suggest thicker oil. In mod and 17.5 timing I personally like 1000, but in 17.5 no timing I like 80wt shock oil or 700 cst oil. The thinner the oil the more the car can rotate. Thicker rear oil will decrease rear rotation.

If you need to run 2000 or thicker with 17.5 to stabilize the car then something else in setup needs to be fixed. The team drivers setups seems to work very well on the correct surface. On carpet I run something very close to Jilles snowbirds setup. Outside I would run Marc's Reedy setup. There is no need to go at this alone and try to develop your own setup. There are plenty out there that you can use as a base setup.
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Last edited by artwork; 11-02-2011 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 11-02-2011, 01:39 PM   #2169
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Originally Posted by artwork View Post
Typically the slower the motor the thinner the oil, but if the car is loose then I would suggest thicker oil. In mod and 17.5 timing I personally like 1000, but in 17.5 no timing I like 80wt shock oil or 700 cst oil. The thinner the oil the more the car can rotate. Thicker rear oil with decrease rear rotation.

If you need to run 2000 or thicker with 17.5 to stabilize the car then something else in setup needs to be fixed. The team drivers setups seems to work very well on the correct surface. On carpet I run something very close to Jilles snowbirds setup. Outside I would run Marc's Reedy setup. There is no need to go at this alone and try to develop your own setup. There are plenty out there that you can use as a base setup.
+++++Art, that has to be the very best description on gear diff feel and oil needs I have ever read in any forum. I think I will copy/paste that for future reference. AWESOME
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:29 PM   #2170
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Originally Posted by Nilks View Post
Try to take a look on the last couple of pages in this thread. I had a huge problem with the normal CVD's and there is even a couple of videos displaying the problem. Switching to Litemodz CVS eliminated the problem!
Understood thx!!

But I still wanted to know how the Spec R version compares with the above litemodz version? They look the same...just easier to find.

Are the Spec R's just as relaible as the Litemodz? same functionality?
where can I find the litemodz?

Thz again!!
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Old 11-02-2011, 08:31 PM   #2171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisk View Post
i have been struggling a bit with my 417 to get it to drive nice out of the corner. i am having trouble with it being loose on exit under power.

i have been running a 416 with a smokem fx chassis and have that dialed and can drive it easy and never have any issues.

i am having this frustration with my 417.

one of the mod guys at my track drove it and him having alot more experience and smoothness could drive it nice, but could get it to be loose if he drove it hard.

me not having that experience yet struggle with the rear grip until i can learn to be a bit more smoother. but saying that , my same driving style with my 416 doesnt have the rear grip issues.

i am attaching my current setup for review and would love to hear from you guys about how to plant the rear more on exit under power.

running a 21.5 blinky class on ashphalt, medium grip track

thanks for anybody that will help with some ideas



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...ct2011001.jpg/
Quote:
Originally Posted by eComet View Post
Switch to lighter oil because your air temperature is too cold. Use Muchmore #250 (equivalent to AE #40) instead for both front and rear.

Run both front and rear upper links at the inner most hole instead of the middle hole so you get more roll for medium grip track.

Use Muchmore 28 instead, again because of colder weather.

Front suspension mounts use 1C-1C and rear 1XA-1E for more grip. You have 0.5 front arm sweep for more mid-corner traction and 2.5 for rear toe, which is a bit less stable than the factory standard 3.0.

Ground clearance front 5 and rear 5.5 instead, this will have a bit less caster so your car is more stable out of the corner. You' also increase corner entry steering a bit.
chrisk, You haven't put your camber link or shock positions on the setup, these do have a big effect on the car.

Personally, I wouldn't go so soft on the oil... MM250 is very light, I've never gone that low, even in very cold conditions. Maybe MM400 would be better, but tbh, 450 probably is about right.

Also, personally, I've never had much success with blue springs on the rear... I find that the car rolls over to quick, and "dumps" all it's traction. For me, the silver rear has always worked best, and I find it more consistent to drive. Also gives more corner speed

I do agree that going to longest links will help the car to roll more.
Also, I would be tempted to move the front wheelbase back as well, try 1.0mm in front of the rear arm. If you are running the sweep as well, reduce the steering spacer to 2mm with this change, otherwise the ackerman will become affected.
Moving the wheelbase on the front only will give the car more steering (as the static weight goes forward), but also help to reduce and pendulum effect. Try it, you'll be surprised with the results

1XA/1D on the rear is a bit less toe, and if you still struggle going back to 1E on the rear should help, but given it's 21.5 blinky, less toe will only give more speed! 1C/1B I also like at this time, as mentioned, more mid-to exit steering, so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

Last thing I would try as well, if your still struggling, is cutting the motor mount and top deck. Both these changes will give the car more rear traction.

Main thing to remember is only change one thing at a time... so that you'll be able to tell what helps solve the problem.

HiH
Ed
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Old 11-03-2011, 03:52 AM   #2172
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thanks for the tips

top deck and motor mount are cut

i did complete the setup sheet but when i saved as a jpeg it lost quality

does anybody know how to upload a pdf file?

i will try a couple of things

28 are too soft, i do run them in the middle of winter but too soft now.

1E on rear would be to much as i want to not loose straight line speed.

Ed, are you saying to try silver on the rear as well as the front?

if i can work out how to upload a pdf you can see the camber links and shocks
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Old 11-03-2011, 05:18 PM   #2173
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They look exactly like the Roche dcj's that are coming out:
This design confuses me (lol), what stops the pin from falling out through the gap in the clip?
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Old 11-03-2011, 05:34 PM   #2174
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This design confuses me (lol), what stops the pin from falling out through the gap in the clip?
One end of the clip is bent at a 90 or so deg angle and it goes into the hole where the pin is and pushes on the pin. So the clip will not move unless you pull it off....it is unable to rotate and the gap is in a location so the pin will never find it when fully seated. If you have a 417 its how the standard 417 axles are they use the same method of holding the pin in place.

The look likese these....

http://www.speedtechrc.com/store/ebp...d=967&id=10516
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Old 11-03-2011, 06:58 PM   #2175
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This design confuses me (lol), what stops the pin from falling out through the gap in the clip?
The clip has a small hook that locates into one of the redundant holes, so it can't move (rotate) around the channel... simples

Still thinking blue again?
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