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Old 12-30-2011, 09:29 AM   #811
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Originally Posted by hanulec View Post
Magenta to black is a huge difference. Did the car push with blacks? If not-- your rear end is probably too stiff. Id recommended black side springs to start with


Make sure your caster is still correct. Hits / crashes can cause the upper links to bend giving you a TON of caster.
The car did not push with the blacks. I believe I probably did break or bend something since the car drove so much differently than it did the last time I ran it. I'll check the caster. Thanks for the input.
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Old 12-30-2011, 09:36 AM   #812
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That's not much info that you give..

How's your rear pod droop? (sounds like you have to much)
What reactive Caster do you have?
What front springs
What side oil in your tubes

Regards Robert

I'll try to answer the best I can.

First off, I don't know what rear pod droop is. I'm new to 12th scale so I'm not familiar with that.

Is reactive caster different than caster?

The front springs are the ones that came with the kit. I believe they are gold.

I think you're reffering to the damper tubes when you say side oil in tubes. I don't believe the Rebel uses oil in the damper tubes. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I did put a bit of black grease on the tube to lubricate it a bit.

Thank you for the reply and I hope I was able to give you a bit more info.

Thanks again.
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Old 12-30-2011, 09:51 AM   #813
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Since you are new to 12th... have you adjusted your dual rate on the radio?
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Old 12-30-2011, 10:23 AM   #814
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Since you are new to 12th... have you adjusted your dual rate on the radio?
I tried that. I don't usually use it and I didn't the other times I ran the car but someone suggested it to me. I didn't help. I also played with the expo but that didn't help either.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:35 PM   #815
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Turns out my caster was off due to a bent tie rod. I replaced the rod and it was much better. I do have one more question. I had to replace a steering block as well and I noticed that it does not slide freely along the king pin. I noticed this during the initial build as well. Is this normal or should I ream it out a bit to free it up?
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:56 PM   #816
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Originally Posted by Delawareguy View Post
Turns out my caster was off due to a bent tie rod. I replaced the rod and it was much better. I do have one more question. I had to replace a steering block as well and I noticed that it does not slide freely along the king pin. I noticed this during the initial build as well. Is this normal or should I ream it out a bit to free it up?
It should slide freely on the kingpin, but unfortunately takes a bit of work to get it to do so. The first thing I would do is polish the kingpin with a dremel and some polishing compound which should make it better. If that does not work then I would ream out the block very gently. Make sure that you hold the drill bit or whatever you are using, straight when you are reaming it out. If you are not careful you will either ream it out too much or make the hole oval shaped and this will cause excessive play in the steering and cause more issues for you.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:56 PM   #817
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Does anyone know when the ver.2 lower arms will be in stock? Ive had them on order through my LHS for nearly a month now and Im being told that TOP USA is out of stock. the car is running awesome but id like to have some spares so I can keep the car flying! btw whats the smallest front tire that can be run and still make ride height?
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:57 PM   #818
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Does anyone know when the ver.2 lower arms will be in stock? Ive had them on order through my LHS for nearly a month now and Im being told that TOP USA is out of stock. the car is running awesome but id like to have some spares so I can keep the car flying! btw whats the smallest front tire that can be run and still make ride height?
V2 Arms are in back in stock at TOP USA.

You can run the tire down to the plastic with the V2 arms. Into the spokes, for that matter
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:21 PM   #819
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NICE!!!!!! Ive noticed the steering knuckle can develop some slop after a few meetings with the boards. so are you guys replacing them or are people still running r5's? Any thoughts on this?
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Old 01-04-2012, 07:44 PM   #820
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OD you have a PM
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:18 PM   #821
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Default steering knuckles

Hi

I have for a few months now been using the BMI steering knuckles from the old front , a totally different steering , steers when I steer. And NO wear. And they can take some hard hits , have only broke one over around 4000 laps of 10sec. I dont use any shims other than a 0,5mm under the knuckle between top and lower arm. And with V2 arms I can run them down to around 39mm and still clear 3mm rideheight.
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Old 01-08-2012, 05:16 AM   #822
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In having received a lot of help from TOP drivers I thought I'd share my setup for this last night on our carpet track which is done over concret in case anyone experiences this environment. For my third round it was pretty stable and held corner speed well and I was only off 4 seconds (57, 8:02) for track record and .03 off best lap record for this winter racing.

Low bite carpet - slightly bumpy- using paragon
AMR - 12 body - forward 5 mm
LRP stock/spec 0-0-0-0

Ft: Tires - CRC magenta 43mm trued surface never ran with 1/4 sauce (I believe for whatever reasons the not run yet tire surface gains the best traction over having run the tire previously, so a little ruff tire texture did it for me)

1.5 mm spacing for castor
Full reactive castor
Used stock ft brace
3mm spacer above steering block
.020 AE springs
associated ft axles with no spacer inside wheel so about 3mm spacing from steering block to inside bearing
Camber 1.5'
Toe even
AE diff lube for kingpin
.25mm droop
Servo flat
2mm arm spacer
Black top spring with AE 30wt oil
Top position front shock mount with pod top shock spacer 1mm
Bump steer spacing only 3mm although 5mm would be ideal the long screws to use the 5mm spacing we're not available so I just dealt with it having little bump steer. I think with 5mm it will have better steering overall IMHO

Rear: Jaco pink 45-46'ish mm trued surface never ran with full sauce
Battery back
Black TOP side springs
CRC 10,000 lube
2mm spacer in ride height
1mm droop
.5mm spacer on each side of axle for 168mm rear width
4.5T Plutonium 31/96 0 timing

4mm ride height overall

Again I think the reason it worked decent for the 3rd round was cause the tires had that trued finish

And always take off rear brace with springs to make sure the football is free as it is hard to tell with on but the car will be squirly if the football is not free and won't track straight
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Last edited by Infinite 12th; 01-08-2012 at 05:42 AM.
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:25 AM   #823
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I am pretty new to 12th scale carpet racing. My previous 12th experience was always on asphalt. Ive had my AE 12R5.2 on the local carpet track for 3 test days so far.

I got a chance to drive a local racer's Rebel 12 this weekend. While there were a couple small setup issues, such as a noticeable chassis tweak and slightly chunked tires... the car felt pretty brilliant in the low speed stuff. It was a bit unstable at high speed, but I think that could have easily been rectified with a few setup changes.

I had been turning consistent low 10s lap times with my 12R5.2. Fastest was a 10 flat, with consistent 10.1-10.2s. The fellow with the Rebel 12 was turning 10.8s. When I got the chance to drive the car, I was able to get down to 10.5s... but felt like the car had much more in it. We looked over the car and I made a few setup and rollout suggestions.

The fellow(whom I believe is a bit too humble about his driving ability) sent me a note this morning letting me know that the changes got him down to a 10 flat lap with consistent low 10s. I figured the car had speed like that in it... but the fact that he was easily able to get down there with just a few changes really impressed me.

Im now eyeing a Rebel 12 I really enjoyed driving the car. I wanted to ask a few questions of Top drivers here:

1) Obviously the Rebel 12 is competitive in Stock and Super Stock, as seen by Hanulec and Fairtrace's performance @ the IIC. But do you feel you are giving anything up to the inline cars?

2) The car is a little over a year old now. Am I getting on the bandwagon too late? Is there an updated version(inline or not) of the car planned?

3) Do you guys generally run reactive caster? Am I noticing a trend of people running less RC these days... how does the Rebel 12 work with 0* RC?

4) Has anyone done back to back testing with the 12R5.2 or SpeedMerchant inline cars and the Rebel 12? If so, how did the performance compare?

5) Does the Rebel 12 now come with the updated V2 front arms? What else should I buy straight from the get go? Obviously the threaded/non-clip front axles... anything else?

Thanks for your input
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:46 PM   #824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesL_71 View Post
I am pretty new to 12th scale carpet racing. My previous 12th experience was always on asphalt. Ive had my AE 12R5.2 on the local carpet track for 3 test days so far.

I got a chance to drive a local racer's Rebel 12 this weekend. While there were a couple small setup issues, such as a noticeable chassis tweak and slightly chunked tires... the car felt pretty brilliant in the low speed stuff. It was a bit unstable at high speed, but I think that could have easily been rectified with a few setup changes.

I had been turning consistent low 10s lap times with my 12R5.2. Fastest was a 10 flat, with consistent 10.1-10.2s. The fellow with the Rebel 12 was turning 10.8s. When I got the chance to drive the car, I was able to get down to 10.5s... but felt like the car had much more in it. We looked over the car and I made a few setup and rollout suggestions.

The fellow(whom I believe is a bit too humble about his driving ability) sent me a note this morning letting me know that the changes got him down to a 10 flat lap with consistent low 10s. I figured the car had speed like that in it... but the fact that he was easily able to get down there with just a few changes really impressed me.

Im now eyeing a Rebel 12 I really enjoyed driving the car. I wanted to ask a few questions of Top drivers here:

1) Obviously the Rebel 12 is competitive in Stock and Super Stock, as seen by Hanulec and Fairtrace's performance @ the IIC. But do you feel you are giving anything up to the inline cars?

2) The car is a little over a year old now. Am I getting on the bandwagon too late? Is there an updated version(inline or not) of the car planned?

3) Do you guys generally run reactive caster? Am I noticing a trend of people running less RC these days... how does the Rebel 12 work with 0* RC?

4) Has anyone done back to back testing with the 12R5.2 or SpeedMerchant inline cars and the Rebel 12? If so, how did the performance compare?

5) Does the Rebel 12 now come with the updated V2 front arms? What else should I buy straight from the get go? Obviously the threaded/non-clip front axles... anything else?

Thanks for your input
1) All of the new cars with inline battery placement also feature a longer wheelbase (about 2mm) and wider track (4mm) than previous designs. This has more of an effect on the cars handling than the battery placement IMO. The most often stated advantage of the inline cars is that they are easier to drive, obviously a good thing for modified class. I don't think it's going to help in Stock. We are testing cars with inline batteries with both stock wheel base and longer and so far haven't felt the need to change the car.

2) We are always testing new ideas but as of right now there is no update to the car planned. Any future change to the car will probably be incorporated into the existing kit or if it's a big enough departure it will be offered as an option.

3) Cars are usually faster with 10 deg reactive caster. I always run 10 deg unless the car is too hard to drive that way. Strictly my opinion.

4) A couple of our team drivers did compare the Rebel to the other cars. The result was that our guys stayed with the Rebel, so that should be some indication.

5) The kits now come with the V2 arms. I recommend using Lundsford front axles and also use Lundsford camber and steering turnsbuckles (20mm and 1.5"). The V2 left hub is a must. Better screws are nice (we have screw kits at TOP USA). I also like the alloy servo mounts but my first R12 has the plastic mounts on it still and they are holding up fine.

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Old 01-08-2012, 03:36 PM   #825
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Thanks for the info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by odpurple View Post
1) All of the new cars with inline battery placement also feature a longer wheelbase (about 2mm) and wider track (4mm) than previous designs. This has more of an effect on the cars handling than the battery placement IMO. The most often stated advantage of the inline cars is that they are easier to drive, obviously a good thing for modified class. I don't think it's going to help in Stock. We are testing cars with inline batteries with both stock wheel base and longer and so far haven't felt the need to change the car.
That is good to know. I am running 17.5 blinky, so consideration for how the car handles in mod is of little concern.

The one thing I felt differed the most between the Rebel and my 12R5.2 was how it handled in the tight bits. I assume this was mostly due to the wheelbase difference...

Quote:
3) Cars are usually faster with 10 deg reactive caster. I always run 10 deg unless the car is too hard to drive that way. Strictly my opinion.
I tested my 12R5.2 with 0* RC. It felt more nervous and twitchy than with the 5* RC. I still need to test with the 10* blocks. So far the 5* RC has been the easiest to drive. Is this normal behavior?

Quote:
5) The kits now come with the V2 arms. I recommend using Lundsford front axles and also use Lundsford camber and steering turnsbuckles (20mm and 1.5"). The V2 left hub is a must. Better screws are nice (we have screw kits at TOP USA). I also like the alloy servo mounts but my first R12 has the plastic mounts on it still and they are holding up fine.
Can I order all these parts(and the kit) from Top USA? I would like to get the V2 left hub, plenty of the ride height spacers, kingpin shims, rear axle spacers, the alloy servo mounts, and some spare parts.

Is there a good online retailer that sells Top products/parts?

Thanks
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