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Old 01-26-2017, 01:38 PM   #1996
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Originally Posted by ruebiracer View Post
Thanks also for your tire review Erik Jan!

As Iīm not limited to Tamiya rules, Iīll also give Ramans tires a go on the weekend. I have some Pit Shimizu in 27 and 30 shores, equipped with the Sweep inserts. But will also test some S-grips again in 60D, with harder inserts to limit the sidewall deformation. This is the only problem I have with the current S-Grips from Tamiya. Rubber is long lasting and very grippy, but you can have bad effects of tucking the sidewall under, like the Mercedes A-class in the elk-test back in the day!
So gluing the sidewall is our daily business in our Mini-class, even on rear tires sometimes.
What I noticed last time: It helped to have front tires with soft (blue) foam inserts on front, as the sidewall is deformating very easy, which leads to kind of a wave in the tread and reduces contact patch of the tire on front, depending on the side load the tire gets. I had terrible understeer in last years race on ETS carpet on Saturday, but when the grip was there on Sunday, the M06 was dialed, and you could "adjust" grip by saucing more or less on the front. Some of my fellow racers also drive weak iserts on the M05 because of that. But it doesnīt replace the gluing completely, I have to admit.
Gear diff wise, Iīm still running 2 or 3 k in rear 3 Racing diff, I just forgot what I filled. From the action, itīs not as tight as Ramanīs ball diff setting posted some days before. Hereīs potential for more, especially on carpet. My other M06 friends drive 7k up to 10k with sweeps on a grippy carpet and small circuit...
Maybe you found these infos helpful, too.
Br,
Matthias
On carpet, I believe a tight diff is the ticket for maintaining high corner speed in the 06.

On my 419x I go up to 15k when running Sorex slicks and 10k with USGT.
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Old 01-27-2017, 02:43 AM   #1997
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On carpet, I believe a tight diff is the ticket for maintaining high corner speed in the 06.
I do not think a tighter diff will help here, but can give it a try. Will try 5 and 10k oil next session. I lost time compared to the FWD's in the long medium speed corners. The M06 pushed over it's front wheels, while the M05's pulled through the corner. It was not much, twice .3sec each lap, but enough to lose contact with the raceleaders.
The M05's in my area are well set up, and the competitors are very experienced and racing at a high level.
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Old 01-27-2017, 07:25 AM   #1998
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I do not think a tighter diff will help here, but can give it a try. Will try 5 and 10k oil next session. I lost time compared to the FWD's in the long medium speed corners. The M06 pushed over it's front wheels, while the M05's pulled through the corner. It was not much, twice .3sec each lap, but enough to lose contact with the raceleaders.
The M05's in my area are well set up, and the competitors are very experienced and racing at a high level.
You did a great job Erik Jan, everyone driving an M06 knows how hard it can be to race against the M05's, piloted by experienced drivers.
I know it too, as I also have an M05Ver.2 Pro.
Probably Iīve not the time to change diff on the weekend, as we only have 2 training heats and no free training this time.
So very curious about your tests, keep us informed, how it feels for you.
For the understeer, it maybe helps to check your Transmitter settings. Iīm over 40 now, so I like to use negative expo for steering, as it calms down the car on the straight and especially on the M06, it helps to not "oversteer" the front tire too quick. So I sometimes run up to -60% Expo, which I would never have thought about 10 years ago. But it really can help too get an agressive setup driveable and have a good turn in, when you need it.
But Iīm sure you know this as TEC Racer.
I just tell this, as I had some years ago the problem going into a bigger, flowing hairpin after a long straight, and had a sudden oversteer mid/end of the corner, where usually there is no problem with the M06. It was so quick, and always ended in a 360°. Solution was, thanks to this thread, the front tires were sliding into the quick corner, and steering angle was much more as needed for the turning radius. Then when the car was getting slower and settled, the front wheels got back there grip quickly, and the car turned in according the bigger angle of the steering so fast, that you had no chance to react by countersteer...
So, have to find an end and pack the race stuff for tomorrow.
Have a nice weekend everyone,
Matthias
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Old 01-31-2017, 09:29 AM   #1999
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Back from racing,
and really happy! It was a fun weekend.
And thousand times thank you to Raman, I owe you a beer!
Tested the shimizu 30/27 slicks with the sweep inserts, and it was a blast to drive!
These tires cured all my problems of the s-Grips with the too weak sidewalls and just got the beast going!
Car was lowerde by the 55D size, so I preloaded the springs to get ground clearance, which also changed my droop settings. So front was nearly 0 droop, just like Raman drives it. Shock length front was anyway reduced to 56mm, rear full "R" 62mm. Changed the diff to 5k, which helped for stability in some tight hairpin corners. rear camber could be reduced to -1°, coming from my S-grips std. -2°.
Acceleration in the starting grid was great. It just launched without any grip problems, never had problems to bring the power down. Learned a lot with my buddys Jochen and Joe.
Finished 3rd in the A-final from starting position 5, just behind my buddy Jochen on the old M03, which I also prepare for him. (was his car back in the day). 1st place was a 4WD touring car driven by a youngster.
Luck was also involved, due to some Lexan fights, but our Mini gang really got a good and fair show for the spectators.
Last final, I took the axle weights of, because it seemed strange to have them on on a high grip track. But it seemed to cause more grip roll in the tight turns.
Thank you Raman,
youīre really on the right way setting up the M06!
Br,
Matthias
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Old 01-31-2017, 07:47 PM   #2000
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Originally Posted by ruebiracer View Post
Back from racing,
and really happy! It was a fun weekend.
And thousand times thank you to Raman, I owe you a beer!
Tested the shimizu 30/27 slicks with the sweep inserts, and it was a blast to drive!
These tires cured all my problems of the s-Grips with the too weak sidewalls and just got the beast going!
Car was lowerde by the 55D size, so I preloaded the springs to get ground clearance, which also changed my droop settings. So front was nearly 0 droop, just like Raman drives it. Shock length front was anyway reduced to 56mm, rear full "R" 62mm. Changed the diff to 5k, which helped for stability in some tight hairpin corners. rear camber could be reduced to -1°, coming from my S-grips std. -2°.
Acceleration in the starting grid was great. It just launched without any grip problems, never had problems to bring the power down. Learned a lot with my buddys Jochen and Joe.
Finished 3rd in the A-final from starting position 5, just behind my buddy Jochen on the old M03, which I also prepare for him. (was his car back in the day). 1st place was a 4WD touring car driven by a youngster.
Luck was also involved, due to some Lexan fights, but our Mini gang really got a good and fair show for the spectators.
Last final, I took the axle weights of, because it seemed strange to have them on on a high grip track. But it seemed to cause more grip roll in the tight turns.
Thank you Raman,
youīre really on the right way setting up the M06!
Br,
Matthias
Matthias,

Nice job on the 3rd place finish. It's good to know that my recommendation worked for you!

What weight shock oil and springs are you running? Also what degree rear upright?
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Old 01-31-2017, 10:15 PM   #2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raman View Post
Matthias,

Nice job on the 3rd place finish. It's good to know that my recommendation worked for you!

What weight shock oil and springs are you running? Also what degree rear upright?
Hi Raman,
thank you. I tried Much More 500 in one run front, to reduce bite in te tight corners. So I returned to MM400 again, rear the same. Havenīt had the time to use 1,5° rear hubs. I only have 1,0° Tamiyas, which are more for the M05 in combinaton with the switchable center plate. My 1,5° are non Tamiya and cannot take the axle weights, so I postponed this test in the future.
Springs again black(red)/black(yellow), to less testing time to change.
Still some thoughts to work on:
Tires 30 rear and 33 front would probably be better on the ETS carpet, to fight against grip roll, but couldnīt source any 33shores so far.
Camber has a lot potential to tune now with the Shimizus, to influence the roll. Try to let it slide little more in the hairpins.
And what I missed the most, is a reverse gear ESC!If the Beetle lies on the door, you cannot pop it up again with gas and steering without having the reverse. My M05 has it, and is easy to get back on the tires. Sounds stupid, but on the large carpet track, you loose too much time waiting for a helping person...
Iīll make a setup sheet for you and document all the settings.

Br,
Matthias
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Old 02-01-2017, 10:53 PM   #2002
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Hey M-06 Guys.
I've been away for a while(working on my son's HPI RS4 Sport 3).
But; I've read through(page 126 to the present page). Just about everyone has been having fun with their M-06 chassis.

I installed a Reedy 9.5T motor in my M-06(my son's). It was fun to run it with more speed.


Take Care
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Old 02-06-2017, 12:07 PM   #2003
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I got the Alfa body finished today! And already managed to crack it a bit.. But I did remember to take some pics before that happened! The decals are based on this car, which I believe is based on this car.
The front wheels seem to come into contact with the body when the steering is locked to their max. I raised the front of the body by one notch, and that helped a little, but I think there's still contact at times. I'm thinking of cutting a bit off the front skirt. @Raman (or anyone else running the Alfa body), have you had similar problems?

Today I also tried to find a tire combo that would give me a bit of oversteer, but I'll still need to work on that. All I got was too much oversteer, or none at all. But what definitely helped me was setting the left-right weight balance to somewhere close to 50-50. We have this 4-piece scale at the club, and when I tried it, the balance on my M06 was way off to one side, and this caused the car to veer of to the right when accelerating. It's still not perfect, but it's pretty close.

Attached Thumbnails
TAMIYA M-06 Thread-alfa_1.jpg   TAMIYA M-06 Thread-alfa_2.jpg   TAMIYA M-06 Thread-alfa_4.jpg   TAMIYA M-06 Thread-alfa_5.jpg  
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Old 02-06-2017, 01:08 PM   #2004
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First off.. Nice!!! Love the colour and decals.

Are the tyres coming into contact with lower front fender well, or the upper centre?

1. Use sand paper to trim the wheel wells a little bit more
2. I run 4 mm hex hubs and it allows me to lower the body.
3. Try also to increase camber in front which will help understeer and reduce wheel rub on upper fender.

For left right balance.. I added a weight to right servo to get the chassis balanced. I also have shimmed my car extensively to take out the play. It all depends to the ESC and recover you are running.

They advise against this on an M05.. but I think the M06 benefits from it.

For understeer - are you running a shorty pack? if so move it all the way to the front.. you will need to wedge a piece of foam between the battery and the battery stop (part B6) You can also add weight underneath the bumper to give more front grip
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Old 02-06-2017, 02:36 PM   #2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raman View Post
First off.. Nice!!! Love the colour and decals.

Are the tyres coming into contact with lower front fender well, or the upper centre?

1. Use sand paper to trim the wheel wells a little bit more
2. I run 4 mm hex hubs and it allows me to lower the body.
3. Try also to increase camber in front which will help understeer and reduce wheel rub on upper fender.

For left right balance.. I added a weight to right servo to get the chassis balanced. I also have shimmed my car extensively to take out the play. It all depends to the ESC and recover you are running.

They advise against this on an M05.. but I think the M06 benefits from it.

For understeer - are you running a shorty pack? if so move it all the way to the front.. you will need to wedge a piece of foam between the battery and the battery stop (part B6) You can also add weight underneath the bumper to give more front grip
Thanks for the tips and the compliments!
The tires come into contact with the lower front fender well, and as far a I know the upper center is not an issue.
A couple of clarifying questions:
-Are the default hubs 6mm? So 4mm hubs would make the wheel track narrower?
-By increasing the camber do you mean more negative camber, or should I go positive? As I understand, negative camber helps with the steering?

I'm currently running with a standard lipo battery, so no wiggle-room there. I am currently looking to get a new battery, however, and a shorty could be an option. But I'll definitely start stacking those weights to the front, and maybe make the rear suspension stiffer.

Today I adjusted the left-right balance only with the adjustment rings on my shocks. It seemed to work, but I don't know if it's the right thing to do, as at least in the front the rings are now at noticeably different heights.
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Old 02-06-2017, 07:43 PM   #2006
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Thanks for the tips and the compliments!
The tires come into contact with the lower front fender well, and as far a I know the upper center is not an issue.
A couple of clarifying questions:
-Are the default hubs 6mm? So 4mm hubs would make the wheel track narrower?
-By increasing the camber do you mean more negative camber, or should I go positive? As I understand, negative camber helps with the steering?

I'm currently running with a standard lipo battery, so no wiggle-room there. I am currently looking to get a new battery, however, and a shorty could be an option. But I'll definitely start stacking those weights to the front, and maybe make the rear suspension stiffer.

Today I adjusted the left-right balance only with the adjustment rings on my shocks. It seemed to work, but I don't know if it's the right thing to do, as at least in the front the rings are now at noticeably different heights.
Negative camber. If it is the front of fender, camber will do little to help. The standard hex are 5 mm. So yes 4 mm will narrow the track width.

Rear should be stiffer since you have all the weight back there. I presently run these springs

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...3&I=LXZEU3&P=K

Blue in rear and switch between yellow and red in front
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Old 02-07-2017, 09:31 AM   #2007
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Thanks for all the input Raman! Now I'll have a lot of stuff that I can tinker with for the next times I go to the club.

It sounds like I've been doing the springs all wrong I've got stiff front and softer rear. I guess I tried to replicate the M05 setup, and to get as much grip as possible. But now that I think of it, that's not at all what I want (currently, anyway)!

Next time I'll go to the club I'll switch the springs around (I'm using the Yeah Racing touring car shocks & springs), and play around with the adjustment rings. I think the shocks themselves could be redone aswell, as I'm still very much a novice when it comes to them (or anything RC, really), but that's a fight for another time..
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Old 02-07-2017, 12:23 PM   #2008
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Hi Mc Mattila,
great Alfa you have there, fully agree with Raman!
Cool also the color choice for yellow.

Tried to summarize my setup in Ramanīs fantastic pdf sheet,
so no handwriting this time.
In my eyes, good start setup for LWB, will test it further with harder tire shores next time. (same as Raman). I only used Shimizu 27, as 33īs were not available, and I wanted to drive one step harder in front, thatīs the only reason.
And need to check my 3 RAcing diff I built in. 5k was good, but one of the gears must be bad, doesnīt feel smooth at some degrees...

Br,
Matthias
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Old 02-07-2017, 02:05 PM   #2009
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Thanks ruebiracer! I chose the yellow color as I wanted to do something different from the box art. I also remember seeing pics of a real life yellow GTA(m?) that looked awesome. And finally, ordering white custom decals (that red paint would require) costs me around three times as much as black ones..
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:50 AM   #2010
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love that yellow Alfa!
oh, if it weren't SWB i'd be all over it.

I just completed my MWB M06 build. Everything is ready to go. I am going to get some practice in either next week or week after. Work has kept me from racing lately AND the weather has not been good here in N. Calfornia ...all outdoor tracks are soaked!
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